Low hour diesel engine failure.

[fdmars]

That stinks!!!!!

 

[B E Lewis Farms]

Have you heard anything from the fuel lab?

 

[dodge man]

Very strange, and none of it makes sense. You would think bad fuel would make the thing run bad, and I wouldn't think a single bad batch would cause that kind of problem. The goo on the piston and stuck rings could be caused by the engine burning oil, such as bad valve guides, but I'd think you would see a lot of smoke for it to be that bad.

I will ventrue another guess, and its a pure guess, but how about a problem with the injection pump. Maybe the timing being off, or it injecting to much fuel. Incomplete combustion might explain some of the problems or bad injection timing. Where were the valves pitted, on the combution chamber side?

 

[V1Rotate]

Here is another guess, what about the engine oil? When was it last changed, who changed it and what type of oil was put in? If you didn't change it yourself do you really trust the person that did the change?
If the person doing the change didn't use the right oil, for instance, using oil meant for gas engines, who knows what might happen.
If you aren't 100% sure about the quality and type of oil, you should have it analized.

 

[Ken]

Rereading the comments and is it possible your exhaust stack is upright and rain could of got into the manifold. water on top of piston and around the valves and sitting for a week isn't good.
mentioned of goo around the rings maybe a leaking head gasket.
Did the repair shop replace the head? that is a lot of money to repair. just engine work.
ken

 

[radioman]

ok - no one has asked -- but when JD dealer said it was contaminated fuel - how did they know? did they run a special test to prove it? My guess is if your mail in test of tank fuel show its normal with little bacteria causing crap or other fuels detected mixed with diesel - then I guess you have a basis claim to fight to get it covered under warranty. After all JD dealer repair guys are either a general mechanics or engine builders.
I am not disputing that they dont know what they are doing, I am just saying a real engine builder would know these things and talk to you about how it happened and how to resolve the "contaminated fuel issue" . that would give me a sense that they do know whats really happened. For someone just blame it on something and walk away is a big red flag in my book. I am not saying the mechanic know that the fuel supplier messed up, but know exactly what the compound is found in your engine and what causes it.

 

[ORCM]

Have you heard anything from the fuel lab?

Sorry guys, been working a lot (Have to pay to fix it somehow.) and haven't been on here in a while..

I attached a copy of the fuel report from my transfer tank, all normal. Note: The pic you see has some crap in it, but I had to take the sample from the filter drain off the pump. So this sample is un-filtered.


To answer the question, what did the dealer base their "Fuel was contaminated", well the first comment was "Gas was dumped in it".. Would be the POOOTA (Pulled One Out Of Their A**) method. They didn't do any testing at all.

I've talked to other people/mechanics and everyone seems to come to the same conclusion: 'This makes no sense'. I firmly believe that they are not telling me the whole story, and are hiding something.

They are supposed to be taking samples so I can get the goo tested to see what it is, however I'm having a hard time finding a lab that will do the testing.

To answer the question about the oil. I do all the oil changes, and I had just changed the oil a few hours before the problems happened. I always change the oil in the Fall, so the old oil is not sitting in the engine over winter (Deere recommended). So, the oil is changed more often than the hour requirement. I use Cenex oil ( https://www.cenex.com/portal/server.pt/community/3lubricants/319 ) , and have the whole life of the tractor. I will say that I saw the bottom end of the motor, and it looked really good, so I really don't think itç—´ an oil issue.

Here are some facts to ponder:
-Tractor was running normally, before I shut it off. Would not restart.
-Tractor had NO smoke (other than a little on start up, and under load.), white, or black.
-Tractor was not lacking power before problem started.
-Tractor did not run rough before issue.
-After problem, the tractor would start right away, and run for about a second and die.

The dealer had it for over a month before they tore the motor down and found the leaky valves, and the stuck rings. They had played a lot with the injectors, and pump. I know when I was trouble shooting it myself, the engine would run for about a sec. and die. There would be some really sooty smoke that came out the pipe, almost like when you first light a cutting torch with a rich mixture. I wondering if they keep playing with it (Trying to start it.), and they sooted up the cylinders and valves. They tested the pump late in the game, and it tested out fine. I wonder it the pump was just out of time, and that was the initial problem.

Bottom line, I'm not happy and I think I'm getting screwed! This dealer will never get my business again, and I will let everyone know who they are after I get the tractor back.

 

[jd110]

Just wondering - which one of the Cenex oils are you using? Also, is there any chance of getting pictures of the valves, pistons and rings? Any other internal engine pictures? I also am not understanding why the engine would start briefly and then shut down, unless the valves were actually sticking open to lose compression? If it had enough compression to start briefly, I would think it should stay running. Is there any chance someonesabotaged the tractor? Maybe added something to the fuel in tractor's tank? Sugar or some such thing? Maybe sample from tractor tank would show something.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

So sorry to hear this. Nothing adds up to me.

 

[Raw Dodge]

Sounds like your dealer left it outside for a month with the stack open ,and brought it in and then it needed engine work....plus a new fuel fliter which is all that was probably wrong with it.

 

[V1Rotate]

I feel your pain.
That sabotage theory is an interesting one.

 

[ORCM]

Just wondering - which one of the Cenex oils are you using? Also, is there any chance of getting pictures of the valves, pistons and rings? Any other internal engine pictures? I also am not understanding why the engine would start briefly and then shut down, unless the valves were actually sticking open to lose compression? If it had enough compression to start briefly, I would think it should stay running. Is there any chance someonesabotaged the tractor? Maybe added something to the fuel in tractor's tank? Sugar or some such thing? Maybe sample from tractor tank would show something.

Super Lube.

I don't think there was any sabotoage, I pulled the fuel filter before I sent the tractor to the dealer and it wasnt gumed up. The injector pump was flowing the correct volume, and the injectors all tested out. Any type of fuel contamination I would think would damage the injector pump/injectors first. The tractor is also parked in my locked shop all the time..

I'm going down Monday to see why its taking them so long to get it fixed. I want to walkin un-anounced and see if they have it together, but can't get it to run. I will also pickup my samples, and get some diesel out of the tank. If they still have it appart I will take some pics.

 

[ORCM]

Sounds like your dealer left it outside for a month with the stack open ,and brought it in and then it needed engine work....plus a new fuel fliter which is all that was probably wrong with it.

Tractor does not have a vertical stack. Fuel filter was not plugged, I checked it before I sent it in.

 

[kuboman]

Personally from reading through this thread, there was a simple problem that got missed/ignored by the dealer and they messed up. The contaminated fuel idea is only valid if in fact there was contaminated fuel but even that does not make a engine quite working when it is shut off. I doubt you will ever find out the real problem because any evidence has been destroyed.
Wish you luck. My experience with dealers has been about 50% which is a really poor average considering the price we pay them.

 

[ORCM]

Personally from reading through this thread, there was a simple problem that got missed/ignored by the dealer and they messed up. The contaminated fuel idea is only valid if in fact there was contaminated fuel but even that does not make a engine quite working when it is shut off. I doubt you will ever find out the real problem because any evidence has been destroyed.
Wish you luck. My experience with dealers has been about 50% which is a really poor average considering the price we pay them.

Yeah, I really wish I knew the whole story. What really bothers me is that their not giving me any reasons (Other "Gas was run through it" statement.) why this happend. So how am I supposed to keep this from happening again, if I don't know what caused it?

I wounder if I could contact Deere directly..

 

[RoyJackson]

Yeah, I really wish I knew the whole story. What really bothers me is that their not giving me any reasons (Other "Gas was run through it" statement.) why this happend. So how am I supposed to keep this from happening again, if I don't know what caused it?

I wonder if I could contact Deere directly..

Tell your dealer you want to talk to a regional manager.

 

[kuboman]

Yeah, I really wish I knew the whole story. What really bothers me is that their not giving me any reasons (Other "Gas was run through it" statement.) why this happend. So how am I supposed to keep this from happening again, if I don't know what caused it?

I wounder if I could contact Deere directly..

I doubt you will get any satisfaction from Deere as there source of info is from the dealer and his response is 'its your fault'. Worth a try if you have some hard evidence to back your claim.

 

[ORCM]

Chapter 27- The plot thickens...

Stop by the dealer un-announced, just to see what was going on. Walk back to the shop first, and found my tractor sitting there with the block in it with no head. A couple mechanics came over to me and started talking. They said that the Mech. working on it was off today. They started telling me that the problem was really weird, and had them all perplexed on what happened. They also told me that the Mech. put it back together and check the compression, and it failed. They pulled the head off to send it in to get checked, because that is the only thing they can think that's causing the problem. Also learned that all the pistons rings were basically welded shut, and they had to heat/freeze them to get them out. (Reminder that the tractor was running fine, until I shut it off.. Wouldn't re-start.)

So, I also found out that the service manager that I was working with (Only been there 2-3 or three months, and I just talked to him Thurs.) was no longer there... So, I tracked down the new guy (Been there like two weeks.). Had a chat with him, and he really didn't know too much. I reminded him that my tractor has been in their shop for going on 3 months now.. He basically said that he wanted to get it fixed and running before we talked any type of money for repair. So, I'm not a square one, but maybe two...

Maybe I should start a reality show.. 'Keeping up with Deere' ??

 

[art]

The dealer may be having problems, I still find it hard to believe in your engine failure and would want to discuss it with the dealerships owners as well as the factory rep..

 

[ORCM]

The dealer may be having problems, I still find it hard to believe in your engine failure and would want to discuss it with the dealerships owners as well as the factory rep..

The new service guy that I talked to, threw the "Not enough fuel lube" at me at first. I called BS, and he dropped that scenario pretty fast. Funny that when I talked to the Mech. in the shop, they never say anything about fuel lube as being the problem. If it was a fuel lube problem, the injector pump would need to be worked over before the motor.

I think I'm in a better place now to push back on them, and Deere than I was before. It will be interested in the result of analyzing the head, which could have been the problem in the first place. Cracked in the exhaust side, and allowing it to intake hot exhaust gases. Thus sooting the cylinders. Remember the dealer has had it in the shop for over 2 months, and before they took it apart they were cranking it over, and over again.