Low Acreage Haying

[farmboy12]

Made it to the auction this weekend. Not too much in the ways of hay equipment. Kind of disheartening. I'm figuring theres no way id be able to make hay work this year so that give us time to find some good deals and plan this out some more. Either way, I do appreciate all the help you all have given me and am getting rather excited about the fact the farm is getting back to moving some more.



Kyle

 

[SwingOak]

We just bought our farm last year, we have 7-1/2 acres of hay fields. When we were doing the home inspection last September, they were round baling and had dropped 9 bales on the first 1-1/2 acres. I have a new tractor, a Kioti DK50 SE HST, and have picked up a NH 467 Haybine for $1500, a NH Super Hayliner 68 for $1200, and a NH 256 rake for $700.

We only need 300 bales per year for our horses, and the going rate for small squares is $5. I figure I can make enough on selling the extra hay this year to cover the cost of the equipment.

 

[schmism]

Ive been watching craigslist for the past 5 years looking for small hay equipment.

Bailers can be had for as little as $500 (be ready to do some work) to an avg of $1500-2K. They run the gamit of small NH, ford, mcCormic, JD etc
9' sickle mowers are only a couple hundred $ as no one wants to use them anymore. Be ready to learn how to service them. A small 7 or 8' haybine/conditioner will likely run 2-3K
Small NH rakes are 500-1000 depending on condition and whether or not they are ground driven or PTO.

In my neck of the woods (central IL) there are many many small 3-5-10 acre plots that are going under utilized. Most have owners that would be willing to let you cut the orchard grass off them in exchange for not having to mow it. At most they want shares 50/50 but then are willing to sell the bales back to ya for $2-3 when small squares go for $5.

This year im closer to jumping in after learning some hay lessons from the guy that cuts my 3 acers on shares. For the past 4 years we have gotten 200 bales first cut, 100 second and sometimes 75 on a third. If the second is late (because of weather) then there is no third but second is usually 125-150. Its mostly orchard grass and some clover (both red and white) my lllama/apaca/goats love it.

 

[RPW]

-powerscol- I did look for some square balers but none to be found in the area at the time the Vermeer came available. Also my back wouldn't hold up to bucking hay so there's more equipment to purchase. I also like the round bales because I can put one out for the critters and not have to worry about them for about a week for forage. One person operation. Wouldn't be so bad if we lived on the property but that's still a few years away. With the round baler I figure I'll make smaller bales until I can get a larger tractor.

 

[powerscol]

No worries. I just cut about 12 acres today and will rake Tuesday. I did a bit of bartering over a brush hog I had and now have a Ford 593 side delivery rake My Bobcat CT 235 handles the Hesston 4550 very well. slight rock, but so far plenty of power, so it can be done with a compact tractor.

 

[5030]

My sage advice is simply, if it's less than 5 acres, grow a garden and buy a riding lawnmower. It's not worth the aggrivation. Used hay tools are just that, used and probably with issues. I certainly don't off my hay tools until they start having issues, then trade in/sell outright and buy new (always new, never second hand). I'm not teying to insult anyone, every operator has to start somewhere. I started with some ancient equpment (NH Hayliner 66, Ancient JD side delivery roper rake, Ancient NH side mount sickle bar mower) because I wanted to 'try' to see if it was for me with the intent of loosing the old stuff asap, which I did, but then I own a very modern machine,.welding and fabrication shop so fixing ancient junk wasn't an issue. All the junk went down the road, long ago (probably to someone who thought they could run hay on a budget.....)

Nothing more aggrivating and stressful than having a few acres ready to bale and the baler won't cooperate because somthing isn't working right and there is a thunderstorm due in, in 3 hours. Why play that. Garden and mow and buy your hay if you need some. Life is too short for that stress level.

There are more people (on here) running what I consider to be junk, with underpowered compact tractors that are marginally acceptable. Unless you are extremely fortunate and nothing breaks, you might actually get some dry, green bales in your barn, but the odds of that aren't good and rained on wet, molding hay isn't worth anything and it stinks and more importantly, it's a fire hazard.

I won't even consider any tractor with less than 50 pto to be acceptable for powering hay tools, preferrably 85 pto or better. Conservatively, I have around 250 grand in haying equipment (all I do is hay), my 5 acre at home ground gets mowed and gardened.....:thumbsup:

It's all a business expense, we are an LLC engaged in crop production (forage). Equipment gets bought, used and sold.

So yes, it's fun so long as everything included the weather cooperates but when something don't go right it becomes a nightmare real quick.

Do yourself a favor, plant a garden and mow the rest with a nice lawn mower. Your stress level will remain sane.

 

[powerscol]

Actually my stress level goes down when working with my compact unit. Like getting on my horse - the world goes away for a while. So far it is fun and by watching the weather I can get a good small crop in. I averaged 175 bales and hour baling the 12 acres and got 225 bales off the property. Some horse quality and some cow hay depending on where the weeds grew. I separated it as I raked and baled.

Its also fun helping neighbors keep their places green as it gets very expensive to mow 3 acres every week or so. I cut and take for free as long as they keep the place weed free and remove any foxtail they have. Yes I do need a hay grapple to move it quicker and I have found several on the market, but if you know of a good brand, please let me know. I can handle one of the 5-6 bale models. I also plan to find a good used equipment trailer to load on to, or even haul my rig.

I also understand about buying new or very good equipment - that is why I invested in a good in-line baler. Got it for $8K while new is 22K. It was a trade in sold in working condition, and when I did find an issue dealer fixed it right away. I got suckered on the IH 1300 sickle mower, as it took $$$ to get it running. The ford 503 hay raked needed two stripper bearings $25 and its fine. It was shed stored most of its life..Your also correct on HP, but it can be done with less, but you need to be careful. I go slow and don.t rush. I also shut everything down if I get out of the seat.

 

[rankrank1]

My sage advice is simply, if it's less than 5 acres, grow a garden and buy a riding lawnmower. It's not worth the aggrivation. Used hay tools are just that, used and probably with issues. I certainly don't off my hay tools until they start having issues, then trade in/sell outright and buy new (always new, never second hand). I'm not teying to insult anyone, every operator has to start somewhere. I started with some ancient equpment (NH Hayliner 66, Ancient JD side delivery roper rake, Ancient NH side mount sickle bar mower) because I wanted to 'try' to see if it was for me with the intent of loosing the old stuff asap, which I did, but then I own a very modern machine,.welding and fabrication shop so fixing ancient junk wasn't an issue. All the junk went down the road, long ago (probably to someone who thought they could run hay on a budget.....)

Nothing more aggrivating and stressful than having a few acres ready to bale and the baler won't cooperate because somthing isn't working right and there is a thunderstorm due in, in 3 hours. Why play that. Garden and mow and buy your hay if you need some. Life is too short for that stress level.

There are more people (on here) running what I consider to be junk, with underpowered compact tractors that are marginally acceptable. Unless you are extremely fortunate and nothing breaks, you might actually get some dry, green bales in your barn, but the odds of that aren't good and rained on wet, molding hay isn't worth anything and it stinks and more importantly, it's a fire hazard.

I won't even consider any tractor with less than 50 pto to be acceptable for powering hay tools, preferrably 85 pto or better. Conservatively, I have around 250 grand in haying equipment (all I do is hay), my 5 acre at home ground gets mowed and gardened.....:thumbsup:

It's all a business expense, we are an LLC engaged in crop production (forage). Equipment gets bought, used and sold.

So yes, it's fun so long as everything included the weather cooperates but when something don't go right it becomes a nightmare real quick.

Do yourself a favor, plant a garden and mow the rest with a nice lawn mower. Your stress level will remain sane.

Good post. Not many of us low acreage piddle patch operators can justify a $250K budget for hay tools.

I will admit I am a junk operator. Piddle on about 5.5 acre. I have less than scrap iron value in all my hay tools so no money to be lost on depreciation that way and my investment is miniscule. In 7 years I have lost less than 30 bales to a broke a baler (and even that was my fault). That said, I have yet to make a profit, but I will at least freely admit that point too. That said, I have not lost a penny either. I am likely masochistic as I do enjoy tinkering on junk (welding, repairing, refurbing, etc.). Haying in general is very masochistic whether hobby or business IMOP.

The ones that crack me up are the guys with their brand new $25k tractor (whether big or little in hp) and their $10k balers and putting up 200 bales on a few acres. Those fellas think they are making/saving money. Heck even if they work for free, somehow get their fuel for free, somehow get their twine for free, never break a part, get all their oil changes and maintenance on the tractor for free, get fertilizer for free to replace what they harvesting. They are simply not doing enough acreage to outpace the market depreciation losses on their equipment even if it sat in the barn unused. Next year that tractor may be worth $22k and the baler $9k. There is at least 1000 bales of hay and sell for $4.00 a bale if you lucky to get that $ amount just to cover depreciation (will not even factor the interest they are likely paying on their loan). Just gotta laugh and shake my head at those number crunchers. Sad part is most of them have kids and the money they are pissing away would be much better spent in an investment college fund for their kids.

 

[SwingOak]

I'm making my own hay because 99% of everything where I live is large squares or rounds. This is cow country, and I've had people more than 100 miles away call on my hay. Small squares are hard to find, and when you do find them I've seen it as high as $9 a bale (price mostly depending on quality). I'm making hay for myself, and selling what I don't need. I've run the numbers and my hay equipment will be paid for by the end of next season just with the acreage I have now.

 

[Bigfoot62]

. . . I am likely masochistic as I do enjoy tinkering on junk (welding, repairing, refurbing, etc.). Haying in general is very masochistic whether hobby or business IMOP. . .

Now THAT'S funny!!! :laughing: (also somewhat sad and true, but really funny)

 

[5030]

I'm making my own hay because 99% of everything where I live is large squares or rounds. This is cow country, and I've had people more than 100 miles away call on my hay. Small squares are hard to find, and when you do find them I've seen it as high as $9 a bale (price mostly depending on quality). I'm making hay for myself, and selling what I don't need. I've run the numbers and my hay equipment will be paid for by the end of next season just with the acreage I have now.

So long as you have a market it's all good except when a hay tool craps anf you have to get it off.

I always dance with mother nature and most times I win but somethimes she wins,

I've considered using my fab shop to build a round bale to square bail maker using my 575. Rounds are easier to handle all the way around. If you are handy with fabrication and a good welder you can build an elevated round bale feeder that eliminates any waste or spoilage. I looked at various designs and then built three using their best ideas and my own. Flattery by copying is the best salesman of anything.

 

[Creamer]

Powescol - I would find an old bale stooker if I were you. In your area you could bale and if you didn't get the bales in immediately you still would not lose the hay. You also could use your loader to put six at a time on the wagon. Very cost effective and nothing to go wrong.

 

[Verticaltrx]

My sage advice is simply, if it's less than 5 acres, grow a garden and buy a riding lawnmower. It's not worth the aggrivation. Used hay tools are just that, used and probably with issues. I certainly don't off my hay tools until they start having issues, then trade in/sell outright and buy new (always new, never second hand). I'm not teying to insult anyone, every operator has to start somewhere. I started with some ancient equpment (NH Hayliner 66, Ancient JD side delivery roper rake, Ancient NH side mount sickle bar mower) because I wanted to 'try' to see if it was for me with the intent of loosing the old stuff asap, which I did, but then I own a very modern machine,.welding and fabrication shop so fixing ancient junk wasn't an issue. All the junk went down the road, long ago (probably to someone who thought they could run hay on a budget.....)

Nothing more aggrivating and stressful than having a few acres ready to bale and the baler won't cooperate because somthing isn't working right and there is a thunderstorm due in, in 3 hours. Why play that. Garden and mow and buy your hay if you need some. Life is too short for that stress level.

There are more people (on here) running what I consider to be junk, with underpowered compact tractors that are marginally acceptable. Unless you are extremely fortunate and nothing breaks, you might actually get some dry, green bales in your barn, but the odds of that aren't good and rained on wet, molding hay isn't worth anything and it stinks and more importantly, it's a fire hazard.

I won't even consider any tractor with less than 50 pto to be acceptable for powering hay tools, preferrably 85 pto or better. Conservatively, I have around 250 grand in haying equipment (all I do is hay), my 5 acre at home ground gets mowed and gardened.....:thumbsup:

It's all a business expense, we are an LLC engaged in crop production (forage). Equipment gets bought, used and sold.

So yes, it's fun so long as everything included the weather cooperates but when something don't go right it becomes a nightmare real quick.

Do yourself a favor, plant a garden and mow the rest with a nice lawn mower. Your stress level will remain sane.

While I agree with a lot of what you said, I think the biggest underlying factor in successful small scale haying (any haying) is experience. This includes knowing how to properly match the equipment to the job, what is good used equipment and what is junk, how to operate the equipment properly and keep it maintained.

My equipment by most peoples standards is small and obsolete, but I find it to be a very economical way to put up hay. I've also been fortunate (maybe diligent is a better word) to find some really good used hay equipment for a good price. That would include a nice NH 451 sickle bar mower for $750 and a NH 268 baler in almost new condition for $1000. I think total including my two tractors (IH 454 and Ford NAA) I probably have less than $10K invested.

With that setup (NH451 sicklebar, 2-basket tedder, NH56 rake and NH268 baler) we do around 20ac of hay per year. I'm one of the very few around this area that still mows with a sickle bar, and probably the only one in the county that still puts up square hay for cattle. That said, I use very little fuel, have basically no depreciation costs, and usually spend less than $200 per season on parts. You most definitely can run a good small scale haying operation for not much money, but it requires a good bit of knowledge and diligence.

 

[powerscol]

Powescol - I would find an old bale stooker if I were you. In your area you could bale and if you didn't get the bales in immediately you still would not lose the hay. You also could use your loader to put six at a time on the wagon. Very cost effective and nothing to go wrong.

Are you referring to a grapple/accumulator that hooks the bales and lets you lift and loads from the front. in searching the stooker I found devices that stack 6 bales in triangle on edge?

 

[5030]

While I agree with a lot of what you said, I think the biggest underlying factor in successful small scale haying (any haying) is experience. This includes knowing how to properly match the equipment to the job, what is good used equipment and what is junk, how to operate the equipment properly and keep it maintained.

My equipment by most peoples standards is small and obsolete, but I find it to be a very economical way to put up hay. I've also been fortunate (maybe diligent is a better word) to find some really good used hay equipment for a good price. That would include a nice NH 451 sickle bar mower for $750 and a NH 268 baler in almost new condition for $1000. I think total including my two tractors (IH 454 and Ford NAA) I probably have less than $10K invested.

With that setup (NH451 sicklebar, 2-basket tedder, NH56 rake and NH268 baler) we do around 20ac of hay per year. I'm one of the very few around this area that still mows with a sickle bar, and probably the only one in the county that still puts up square hay for cattle. That said, I use very little fuel, have basically no depreciation costs, and usually spend less than $200 per season on parts. You most definitely can run a good small scale haying operation for not much money, but it requires a good bit of knowledge and diligence.

Certainly not saying you can't so long as an owner you maintain the equipment (and know how). I see lots of used (and abused) hay tools that people fon't have a clue about maintaining. Those are the ones that let you down when you need them most.

I like to steer clear of used equipment just for the lack of maintenance by the previous owner syndrome. As a rule, people fon't sell equipment thats operating perfectly fine unless upgrading to a more efficient/larger unit.

 

[Creamer]

Are you referring to a grapple/accumulator that hooks the bales and lets you lift and loads from the front. in searching the stooker I found devices that stack 6 bales in triangle on edge?

The six bales in a triangle system. It sheds some rain, keeps the bales off the ground except for a corner of three of them letting air get between and under them, and you can pick up 6 easy with a loader and set them on a trailer and - depending on how good you are and the trailer you can put as many as six groups up on a trailer before having to get on the trailer and stack them. Basically it is a real cheap almost maintenance free system that lets one person handle square bales very easily.

When i was younger I had neighbors that used these and they had larger loaders and they would scoop two "stooks" at a time on their loaders and put them up on a truck or trailer. It is a very efficient little system that just works.

the shedding of rain works real well in a dryer climate like you are in unless you really get a major downpour because the outsides tend to dry out very quick. In a more humid environment you still have to get the bales picked up pretty quick.

 

[Lastkidpicked]

The ones that crack me up are the guys with their brand new $25k tractor (whether big or little in hp) and their $10k balers and putting up 200 bales on a few acres. Those fellas think they are making/saving money.

Rankrank, you and 5030 are entirely correct when you say that it is not worth the money.

I always enjoy your posts, and I'm looking at some of this from a different point of view than you:

For some of us, messing around with our old tractors and junk is a nice way to relax. When I can't hear a phone call on my tractor and my friends tell me I should put my phone on vibrate, I always joke that "Hey, try to find something on this tractor that ISN'T vibrating!"

So for some of us, baling 3 or 4 acres is just an excuse for having the equipment around. When I need to justify it, I just mention that it's still cheaper than some other hobbies.

It also seems like a good way to bond with the kids. Nothing like jump starting old equipment or towing junk back to the barn to bring a family together!

 

[wmonroe]

Rankrank, you and 5030 are entirely correct when you say that it is not worth the money. I always enjoy your posts, and I'm looking at some of this from a different point of view than you: For some of us, messing around with our old tractors and junk is a nice way to relax. When I can't hear a phone call on my tractor and my friends tell me I should put my phone on vibrate, I always joke that "Hey, try to find something on this tractor that ISN'T vibrating!" So for some of us, baling 3 or 4 acres is just an excuse for having the equipment around. When I need to justify it, I just mention that it's still cheaper than some other hobbies. It also seems like a good way to bond with the kids. Nothing like jump starting old equipment or towing junk back to the barn to bring a family together!

Well put. I have some great memories as a kid helping my dad bale 4-5 acres of hay using old junk equipment. I learned a lot and it was a good father/son activity. We rarely ever made enough hay for the few cows we had or the horses when we had those but I'm glad dad decided to make hay on our own.

 

[flusher]

Good post. Not many of us low acreage piddle patch operators can justify a $250K budget for hay tools.

IThe ones that crack me up are the guys with their brand new $25k tractor (whether big or little in hp) and their $10k balers and putting up 200 bales on a few acres. Those fellas think they are making/saving money. .

It's possible to make money on small acreage haying. My neighbor across the road cleared about $4.5K this year on 7 acres of forage mix. He does have a $25K tractor (Kubota L4630 with FEL). But all the haying equipment is old used stuff.

 

[SwingOak]

I'm not counting the cost of my tractor, as I needed that for my farm whether I made my own hay or purchased it so it's a sunk cost. I have very little money invested in my haying equipment. There's a reason it's called a hobby farm - you farm it because it's fun, not to make a living from it. I like making hay, and haying my own property with my old-as-dirt equipment gives us the hay I need for our horses. Selling off what we don't need will pay for the equipment purchase and maintenance costs in two years. I'm cool with that.