Losing RPM

[donotfear]

This is a follow up post from the one before about losing the filter screen down into the tank. We still can't get it out, but we are certain that is not the problem.


Zack (person who is helping with this) came out this morning to trouble shoot the problem. Some sort of wire with connector started smoking and melted the connector. See pics below.



Unsure what this is about.

Here is a video of what the tractor is doing.

 

[Clint S]

What is the connector bolted to. Looks like a ground. Were you cranking the tractor alot.

 

[donotfear]

What is the connector bolted to. Looks like a ground. Were you cranking the tractor alot.

He said it was a ground. He was trying to start it. Sometimes it won't engage when started, you have to move into neutral several times.

 

[1010]

The fuel filters need to be changed before anything else. that strainer that dropped isn't the tank isn't hurting anything. You are creating more problems trying to run the machine when you may have dirty filters or even a blocked tank strainer, not the one you dropped inside either.

You have to bleed the air out of the new filters, if they spin on get some clean fuel and fill the filter to the top with fuel. You will need to then open the air bleeder and make sure the air is completely out, or the engine won't start.

What year and model is the machine and how many hours does it have?

 

[Clint S]

Sounds like Zack ran the starter too long and melted the ground. Do as said above and fix the ground and try again. Let the starter rest a little between tries to cool down

 

[1010]

https://parts.mahindrausa.com/CorporateEPC/illustration.aspx

I looked at a max 28 parts list from the link above, it looks like you have a cartridge type filter (number 13 in the diagram), that means you disassemble the cannister and remove the old filter cartridge install the new one and put the canister back together. It appears you have a electric fuel pump also, once you get the cannister back together you can just open the bleeder valve (bolt on top) and just turn on the key (not start) the pump should fill the cartridge with fuel, it'll just start squirting fuel out the bleeder, turn key off and close the bleeder.
Then try to start the machine, it should start right up, it might run ruff for a few seconds then clear up.

If you don't get fuel from the bleeder when you turn on the key, it could be several things, with the burned ground wire it could be a fuse or the electric pump is not getting power or fuel and you have a clogged fuel line or strainer in the tank.
Once you turn on the key you should be able to touch and feel the electric pump to see if it's pumping (vibration) might can hear it too.

As Clint mentioned trying to crank for long periods will only cause more issues $$$$ diesel engines are fairly simple, they only require compression, fuel and air. It won't run with out any one of them.

 

[donotfear]

The tractor is a Mahindra Max 28XL, year 2014.
It has 404 hours on it.

I'm printing off these suggestions to give to Zack. He's doing this for me on the side, so he doesn't have much time. He's working on his certification.

Thanks, I'll pass this on. Or, I can swallow my pride and call my ex guy friend who is a certified diesel mechanic.
Hate to do it.
Rats.

Crazy Tractor Lady

 

[John Fitzgerald]

Did you get the problem fixed?

 

[donotfear]

I broke down and called someone else (who I did not want to )K he came out, I'm changing the air filter. It appears to be the problem. Will install tomorrow.

 

[donotfear]

UPDATE:
Well, he came out (former BF). Diesel mechanic, 40 years. He checked it all out. Opened fuel line, fuel was getting through. Air filter was a mess....very dirty. Replaced air filter today. Filled up with diesel. Ran for 5 min., then started working. Bush-hogged about 10 minutes, no problem. Then started losing RPM again. Was in higher setting, 1st. When I stop, put in neutral, it seems to rev up again. It lost RPM for a total of 5 times, but never idled and died, always revved up again.
So, he said the fuel filter looked clean. I turned it on so he could test to see if fuel was getting through the line. It was. I'm asking him now what the next suggestion is.
I showed him everything you guys have suggested, also.

Crazy Tractor Lady with no experience. :confused2:

 

[donotfear]

UPDATE:
Well, he came out (former BF). Diesel mechanic, 40 years. He checked it all out. Opened fuel line, fuel was getting through. Air filter was a mess....very dirty. Replaced air filter today. Filled up with diesel. Ran for 5 min., then started working. Bush-hogged about 10 minutes, no problem. Then started losing RPM again. Was in higher setting, 1st. When I stop, put in neutral, it seems to rev up again. It lost RPM for a total of 5 times, but never idled and died, always revved up again.
So, he said the fuel filter looked clean. I turned it on so he could test to see if fuel was getting through the line. It was. I'm asking him now what the next suggestion is.
I showed him everything you guys have suggested, also.

Crazy Tractor Lady with no experience. :confused2:

Okay, I was told to loosen the fuel cap and try that. He seems to think that could be a possibility. I
have asked him 3 times to refer me to someone else, but NOT. He said if the tank is not venting and forming a vacuum in side the fuel tank, it could cause this. He said it sounds like it's running out of fuel. He said to look on these forums to see where to check the fuel pressure and how much pressure it should have.

In other words, he doesn't want to waste his time helping with it.. Whatever.

 

[DwayneB]

Okay, I was told to loosen the fuel cap and try that. He seems to think that could be a possibility. I
have asked him 3 times to refer me to someone else, but NOT. He said if the tank is not venting and forming a vacuum in side the fuel tank, it could cause this. He said it sounds like it's running out of fuel. He said to look on these forums to see where to check the fuel pressure and how much pressure it should have.

In other words, he doesn't want to waste his time helping with it.. Whatever.

Don't get discouraged. You're making progress. He's probably right it's starving for fuel and he probably doesn't want to mess with it for free. Offer to pay him a little to keep trying. He probably knows how to check the strainer coming out of the tank and the fuel pump pressure and flow.
I like helping people for free but, I have my own obligations. Sometimes I get sucked into something that ends up taking more of my time than I wanted to devote to it. I usually stick with it and never take any money but, everyone is not like me.

 

[donotfear]

I have offered payment but it's kinda hard when that person was someone in a previous personal relationship with you who no longer wants it. He wanted some fencing panels, but now says he does not. I assume, by the short answers I get, he is not interested in assisting. So I'm going another route.....hopefully.

 

[sixdogs]

Don't get discouraged and we've all been through it. These things are frustrating but you'll get it fixed.
You're gaining experience by the hour...

 

[lennyzx11]

That is a valid check for the vacuum forming in the tank.

Try running it until the problem appears, reach up and loosen the fuel cap. See if the problem goes away.
You'll have to loosen it enough for air to get in.

Are you sure he checked the actual fuel filter and not a simple water separator? I don't have a mahindra. But some tractors have a simple filter to separate the water that the operator should drain daily(or when water is seen) and then a cartridge filter located in a canister.

On the fuel pump test. Though pressure is a factor, the injector pump makes the high pressure. That electric fuel pump pushes(or pulls) the fuel from the tank to the injector pump at a lower pressure. A fuel Volume test would be more beneficial in telling you if it's delivering enough fuel.

One sign of an electric pump going out is low volume, and it seems to work at idle or low Rpms or cold but revved up or warmed up, runs out of gas.

Don't let it frustrate you. There is plenty of talent here to help you (and Zach) figure out the basic problems. If not, then load it up and take it to a shop and have them diagnose it for you for a hourly rate.

 

[donotfear]

Lenny, thank you very much. I was pretty frustrated last night but I'll tackle this thing. I put a message out asking for assistance.

 

[ericm979]

Usually when the fuel tank vent is clogged it takes a while of running to build up enough of a vacuum to affect the engine operation. If you have a gravity feed system it'll happen more readily than if you have a lift pump. Gravity fed systems have to have the fuel tank above the fuel injection pump on the side of the engine, systems with lift pumps can have the tank lower down. With either system measuring flow for X period of time will tell you if it's flowing enough. If your shop manual is good it'll have that info.

I'd replace the fuel filter just in case. It can be clogged enough to affect running even though it "looks" clean.

 

[donotfear]

UPDATE:

I loosened the gas cap, it does the same thing. Loses RPM after 10-15 minutes. I honestly think that the first person who did maintenance for me did not do everything. He changed some filters and the oil, but I guess something is amiss. I will be changing the fuel filter.(s)

I'm going to make a good faith effort to study the manual and Youtube it for how to replace the fuel filter. I'll call for help if I need it, which I probably will. My issue is usually strength to unscrew things because I lost a lot of muscle. I'm letting it sit, for now.

I'll update again. I appreciate everyone giving information in a kind way. A lot of folks don't have patience for a beginner and believe me, my college education "ain't" helping.

Crazy Tractor Lady

 

[sixdogs]

Years ago I had a similar situation that is worth mention. I had a tractor that had a fuel shut off lever that you turned before the filter was changed. Anyway , the tech that did the service over turned the lever when he closed it and it partially restricted the fuel flow after it had been running for a while. Took a while to figure it out. Just a thought.

 

[stevem5215]

It should also be asked... where are you located in case someone on here is close by and willing to stop over to check it out.

The fuel filter is a an easy way to go on this. You could've gotten some dirt in there when you fueled it last that the strainer didn't get due to it being in the tank along with all the dirt from the strainer. I know on Jinma's they have a strainer at the top of the fuel bowl and it will clog up with junk. The easiest way I found to clear it quickly is to just take off the glass fuel water seperator and blow air from a compressor up into the bottom of the tank. That cleans it out temporarily at least. Also, I was having trouble with my Ford 1900 losing power and shining a flashlight into the tank I found a bunch of yellow jackets at the entrance to the petcock area blocking the fuel flow. How they got into the tank is a mystery but I'm guessing they were hanging around the fuel can too much and got drunk lol

Steve