Looking for Help Grapple Shopping

[Mackdaddy9269]

Hello All,

I'm in the market for a grapple. I've read A LOT of posts/threads on TBN on grapples to learn everything I can from reading about them as well as the experiences people have had buying/using them. I just purchased a used 2010 Kubota MX5100 Tractor which is my first. I have not used a grapple before, but have used two different tractors of similar size over the past few years to get some tractor time experience.

I already have read and understand I need to beef up the grille/brush guard. I've got that in the works to build a heavy duty guard like Ovrszd & do some other enhancing like Rustyiron. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse with this, but rather I would like input especially from the experiences of others.

I have a good understanding of the basic principle of the heavy the grapple, the less I can pickup with it. Typically I'm very much an HD guy as I expect my stuff to last and to work when I need it. I also understand you get what you pay for. I have an LA844 loader and from what I can find the lift capacity is around 2,400 pounds. I've already loaded the rear tires with beet juice/rim guard which put around 1,100 pounds of ballast in the rear. I'm going to be building a custom ballast box for the rear that I plan on putting 800 to 1,000 pounds into to help more with pushing than lifting as I don't want to overload the FEL or the front axle.

The tractor is 52hp and the hydraulics seem very strong, quick, and responsive. My primary uses for the tractor will be snow removal, light logging & lumber clearing, brush clearing, general property maintenance, and wildlife habitat maintenance. It will all be personal use, no construction or commercial work.

I am currently leaning more towards a claw/clam style grapple. I've read and understand the differences, the abilities, and the pros/cons to the different styles. I know already I don't want a bucket grapple or add on thumb grapple to my bucket. I also don't want a grapple with no or minimal under claw, but I don't know that the versions with the large under claw are what I'm seeking either. I understand the advantages that come with that, however, I want to be able to dig down a little to get at roots. I may be off in some of my thinking which is why I'm asking for input and I appreciate in advance your time and help. I'm not writing this to get into a debate or argument, just looking for peoples experiences with grapples.

I've shopped on Everything Attachements and looked at what they have, Titan attachments, CAL attachments, WR Long, and Mid State (Wildkat), Land Pride, Armstrong Ag, Michigan Iron & Equipment, as well as about 10 others that I can't think of at the moment. I'm looking at & interested in what I would call a modified claw/clamshell type grapple at this point. By this I mean one with a complete upper claw, not the two upper arm version, but a grapple with one cylinder at each end. I would like an in between where the bottom jaw isn't really long or short & flat.

OK.......now to my questions:

1) Has anyone bent or severely twisted their grapple, or perhaps caused damage to it that owns a two cylinder clam/claw grapple? By this I'm not asking about bragging by abuse, but rather unplanned & unexpected damage from normal use? In reading some posts, one concern I have that has been pointed out by IslandTractor is that this type can inherently cause damage based on cylinders compressing an uneven load.

2) Does Millonzi still make grapples? I can't find them on the internet, only older postings on TBN.

3) I want to gain a better understanding of the lower jaw and what tooth style would work best for me. I'd like to find one with a more open tine style (not necessarily gapped wider as I get that makes them weaker) that are thick to help prevent bending. I've seen them where there is flat plate welded at an angle to strengthen the tooth/bar, as well as most that have round pipe welded through the tooth bars to strengthen it. My thought on this is that if there is too much there, it will tear up the sod/earth and leave a big void. With the reinforcing bar that runs across the length of the lower jaw out by the teeth, that it would limit my ability to dig down reasonably to uproot stuff.

These are my initial thoughts and I'm trying to gain a better understanding to make an informed purchase on what would work best for me. The Landpride SGC15 model line is very close to what I'm thinking thus far but it's pretty pricey. Also the Quick Attach Eagle Claw Grapple (Eagle Talon Log, Brush & Rock Grapple) peaks my interest, but it's a little on the big side. The Mid State (Wildkat) as people have called them has a very attractive price and people have praised it largely on here, but when I look at current model styles they've got the hydraulic lines running right in front of where the quick attach plates connect & even if there was spacing there, I'd be concerned through use if any of that plating bent, the line would be crimped, squished, or be exposed to friction to fray?

Again, any thoughts, experience, and of course help are appreciated!:cool2:

 

[Eric102]

1) Has anyone bent or severely twisted their grapple, or perhaps caused damage to it that owns a two cylinder clam/claw grapple? By this I'm not asking about bragging by abuse, but rather unplanned & unexpected damage from normal use? In reading some posts, one concern I have that has been pointed out by IslandTractor is that this type can inherently cause damage based on cylinders compressing an uneven load.

Here's a pic of the EA 55" with a stump at one end of of the grapple. You can see the lid twisting a little bit at full hydraulic pressure but it straightens itself out after the load is released. The 55 is a light weight 209 lbs so I would think if you were to buy a heavier duty clam shell type there would probably be less flex in the lid.

I don't normally pick stuff up at one corner of the grapple but that's the nice thing about the full width lid is that you can if needed.

 

[Xfaxman]

Have you seen this one? www.TheRakeShop.com / Root Rakes Grapples Attachments & Skid Steers

And this one? 333 Series "Standard Duty" - Precision Manufacturing

 

[EverythingAttachments]

I probably do not even need to point this out, but I can't help myself on the subject...

IMO, you'll absolutely hate a 700, 800, or God forbid a 1,000+ pound grapple on the front of your COMPACT tractor!
You'll like a 600 pound grapple a lot less than a grapple in the 400 pound range.

The Wicked Grapple is proven. It has been on MX series Kubota tractors for years and people absolutely love them. Roots, rocks, stumps, logs, vines, trees...you name it.
The tine design promotes your ability to run them through the ground.
Travis

This isn't the tip of the iceberg for pics I've gathered, but I really like these!
Travis

Here's a 72" dual lid hiding behind this freak of a stump cluster. The tractor is an L6060.

The cradling ability of the grapple adds to it's versatility. This is an MX5100 with a 72".

Why limit your lift capacity with a heavy grapple? This is only an L4600, but it will lift more than an MX5100 with an 800 pound grapple on it!

More crazy stumps with the MX5100

Finally, here's an unloaded Wicked Grapple on a 5100.

 

[HCJtractor]

If you want to dig roots, forget a wide grapple. My 48" will do everything a wider one will do, plus dig out trees. And uprooting trees and carrying off the debris from that and chainsaw work is what I've done extensively with my 70 horse Kubota. You are not going to be effective digging with a 6'wide grapple. It would be like digging with a snow shovel.



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[Mackdaddy9269]

Thanks for all the input, pics, and information fellas, I appreciate it! I'll be reading it over tomorrow when I have more time.

 

[Dadnatron]

I purchased the Construction Attachments 84" grapple from EA... it is too much 1270lbs. They recommended it based on the HP (100) of my tractor. I use it heavily, but in reality, I lose a lot of capability because of the degree of indestructibility.

Construction Attachments XTreme Duty Root Grapple For Skid Steers and Larger Tractor Loaders

I would have been much better off going with the 84" Wicked root grapple. 985lbs.

Wicked Root Grapple For Large Utility Tractors

I know one day my great grandkids will have a grapple... and it will likely be this one. However, I could have used the difference in weight to make its use, much easier.

PS... I would recommend a double lid if you are over 60" wide. I think a single lid will make picking up those big loads much more difficult with a wide grapple.

 

[Cataclysm]

I have a few ideas to throw out. I have a 72" dual lid Wicked Grapple on order for a 55hp/6700lb tractor.

You may want to add a good skid plate to the under side of your tractor to protect the hoses/filters/wiring from the brush and limbs you will be running over. Most modern tractors have soft under bellys and its one of the things most people don't thing about until the tractor is broken.

For the general uses you describe you will be hard pressed to find a better alternative than one of EA's proven Wicked series of grapples. EA has the weight vs strength formula right. The type, width and number of lids for your general use isn't going to be nearly as important as operator skill.

Something else to consider, your setting your tractor up with weight to push hard with the FEL. Tractors are much better at pulling. Have you considered a BB with rippers to do the root cutting then use the grapple to flesh out the limbs from the spoils?

The BB will act as ballast and do the heavy root ripping and I will let the grapple sort the limbs from the plowed up dirt. I have already used the BB extensively to bring the roots up and then keep the rippers at ground level to rake them up. Its just that the BB can't hold a very big load of limbs.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[Dadnatron]

As Cataclysm states, think about ballast on the 3pt. And start thinking about it NOW, as you think about your grapple. IMO, those things are too closely intertwined for functionality.

Initially, I didn't have anything, and I quickly found that my instability limits were pretty quickly realized when working with my massive grapple. I purchased a 1200lb used boxblade, and it really made a difference. I already had 880lbs of fluid in each tire. I can't imagine what it would have been like without the tire weight. I probably would have just tipped over lifting it off the ground.... or at least felt like it was going to happen.

 

[VTForester]

As Cataclysm states, think about ballast on the 3pt. And start thinking about it NOW, as you think about your grapple. IMO, those things are too closely intertwined for functionality.

Initially, I didn't have anything, and I quickly found that my instability limits were pretty quickly realized when working with my massive grapple. I purchased a 1200lb used boxblade, and it really made a difference. I already had 880lbs of fluid in each tire. I can't imagine what it would have been like without the tire weight. I probably would have just tipped over lifting it off the ground.... or at least felt like it was going to happen.

This...I put a 62" WildKat 2 lid grapple on my M5140. Rear tires are filled and I still found it very easy to get to a spooky/unstable point when working at the limits of the loader. I have a ballast box in the works now...actually it is sitting on my front porch and the UPS guy is pissed right at the moment :laughing:

Whatever brand you decide on, don't go wider than your front tires and a little narrower is ok too especially if you want to dig stumps with it. They are an awesome tool, but probably the best way yet created to turn a tractor over.

 

[DieselBound]

Keep in mind that there's the fulcrum effect to consider. You won't be able to lift the difference between spec numbers and the grapple weight as your load will always be out farther than the distances that lift capacity specs go by. It may be obvious, but I felt it needed to be pointed out.

Hey Travis, care to dig out my stump picture? Yeah, I'm a single lid, but the point would be that there's no way I'd have picked up; that stump like that with an 1,000 lb grapple!

And... the type of material matters as much/more so than weight. If strength were based solely on weight then a lead grapple would excel!

 

[Mackdaddy9269]

Thanks again for the posts fellas. I've got a custom ballast box in the works. I was going to order one from Titan Attachments as theirs says it holds around 800 pounds, however I'd like the box to do more for me than just be a dead weight ballast. I know there are some out there that have slots & spaces to hold some tools, rakes & such, but I think I'm going to get creative......yes, you better sit down for this & maybe even hold my beer.....have a ballast box that will hold a saw or a slot on a side for one, chain, pry bar, other necessary tools, and have a lid to keep the stuff out of the elements for when it's left out overnight at the property I'll be working on.

I think a lot of what guys have built looks great and it's very functional, but I don't know if I want to put that stuff in different spots on the tractor or on the outside where it might get dinged up. I admittedly was initially looking to big (width & weight) thinking of what I wanted/needed. Bigger is not always better & I'm understanding that. I've looked at one tractor with a complete undercarriage skid plate. That is probably more than what I'm thinking but I'm considering building something similar, or building multiple guards for the undercarriage in addition to a new enhance brush/grill guard.

My dad has a back blade he doesn't use. I think it's a Land Pride and believe it's 72" wide that he said I could just have since he got it with his tractor 2007 55hp New Holland Shuttle Shift. I'll use this I'm sure for dirt work, but when I referred to pushing I meant for the FEL (and hopefully future front blade) using it to push snow, pile snow, and move snow. The ballast will help with loader bucket/grapple work, but I don't want to over do that or the front axle and have a couple thousand dollar lesson to be learned.

 

[DieselBound]

I'll soon be adding 1,200 lbs of ballast to the rear of my Kioti, in the form of a box blade: tires are ballasted; this alone seems to hold the tractor even when the bucket is filled with material, though you can feel that the rear is starting to get a little light. I have used a box blade (on my B7800) to carry stuff: reversed the scarifiers and dropped in some plywood, which cradled by the mold board in back, made for a nice pocket/shelf).

Just sold a 6' back blade that I'd picked up several years ago along with my 5' box blade (was after the box blade). I never really used the back blade. Not a lot of weight (especially in a smaller blade) to do much with anything other than really loose material; and, not very effective as ballast (sticks out too far too).

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Keep in mind that there's the fulcrum effect to consider. You won't be able to lift the difference between spec numbers and the grapple weight as your load will always be out farther than the distances that lift capacity specs go by. It may be obvious, but I felt it needed to be pointed out.

Hey Travis, care to dig out my stump picture? Yeah, I'm a single lid, but the point would be that there's no way I'd have picked up; that stump like that with an 1,000 lb grapple!

You know I'd love to! :thumbsup:

Here's an L3800 with the same grapple doing something similar.

And... the type of material matters as much/more so than weight. If strength were based solely on weight then a lead grapple would excel!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[DieselBound]

But, BUT... that Kubota has extra ballast in the rear (box blade)! :laughing:

 

[EverythingAttachments]

But, BUT... that Kubota has extra ballast in the rear (box blade)! :laughing:

:laughing: :laughing: And...and....your unballasted Kioti outweighs it by about 2,000 pounds! :laughing:
Travis

 

[DieselBound]

:laughing: :laughing: And...and....your unballasted Kioti outweighs it by about 2,000 pounds! :laughing:
Travis

And I'm stringing up a very HEAVY, WET maple stump (with a bunch of wet dirt still stuck to it)! Trust me, I really could have used some added ballast!:thumbsup:

 

[Cataclysm]

Thanks again for the posts fellas. I've got a custom ballast box in the works. I was going to order one from Titan Attachments as theirs says it holds around 800 pounds, however I'd like the box to do more for me than just be a dead weight ballast. I know there are some out there that have slots & spaces to hold some tools, rakes & such, but I think I'm going to get creative......yes, you better sit down for this & maybe even hold my beer.....have a ballast box that will hold a saw or a slot on a side for one, chain, pry bar, other necessary tools, and have a lid to keep the stuff out of the elements for when it's left out overnight at the property I'll be working on.

I think a lot of what guys have built looks great and it's very functional, but I don't know if I want to put that stuff in different spots on the tractor or on the outside where it might get dinged up. I admittedly was initially looking to big (width & weight) thinking of what I wanted/needed. Bigger is not always better & I'm understanding that. I've looked at one tractor with a complete undercarriage skid plate. That is probably more than what I'm thinking but I'm considering building something similar, or building multiple guards for the undercarriage in addition to a new enhance brush/grill guard.

My dad has a back blade he doesn't use. I think it's a Land Pride and believe it's 72" wide that he said I could just have since he got it with his tractor 2007 55hp New Holland Shuttle Shift. I'll use this I'm sure for dirt work, but when I referred to pushing I meant for the FEL (and hopefully future front blade) using it to push snow, pile snow, and move snow. The ballast will help with loader bucket/grapple work, but I don't want to over do that or the front axle and have a couple thousand dollar lesson to be learned.

A ballast box is a great idea and there are some self built works of art on here.

Thinking outside the box again and thinking multi-use here. I built a metal rack on top of my BB (box blade) to carry tools on. I put a metal mesh floor so the dirt falls through and you can see through it when running the BB. I bought a used aluminum pickup tool box for cheap at a garage sale. I put all my fencing supplies in the tool box and can set it on and off when I go do fencing. I just set the tool box off on a couple of boards in the yard when I'm not using it. It keeps all the stuff dry. No need to store it inside.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

And I'm stringing up a very HEAVY, WET maple stump (with a bunch of wet dirt still stuck to it)! Trust me, I really could have used some added ballast!:thumbsup:

Good point. I can see all the sticky dirt still hangin on vs. the Kubota with a dry stump!!
Travis

 

[Msamt]

Ballast is absolutely your friend, I made a barrel type that weighs around 950 lbs and even with loaded tires I can tell an extreme difference without it.

As to a grapple, I'm a cheapskate, and I found a new 66" single lid from Versatech at an auction, feel like I stole it for $800. Not sure the weight, likely around 400 lbs, but well suited to my DK45.
I find picking up things, roots, rocks and brush to be easy with the single lid, just be careful not to try to put too much into it, the rocks that I have dug out and lifted are truly amazing...but some were just stupid heavy.

For the grill protection (how I never put anything through my radiator without protection is a mystery) I tacked in some expanded metal to the grill guard, I'm a crappy welder so it's already come loose, that fix is next with some angle iron and better welds.


I rarely take the grapple off, it's without a doubt the best advice anyone ever gave me to get (besides the tractor) thanks Rob!

MT