Looking for advice re grazing cattle

[newbury]

And then for the OP's purpose there are also "hair sheep", no wool to worry about, mainly for brush control.

 

[jyoutz]

Are you sure? I just looked them up

from the wicki
Maybe they were 400kg give or take.
/edit
Belted Galloway - Wikipedia

No way that a miniature breed weighs that much. A full sized breed like angus will weigh in at about 1200 lbs. for a market ready steer.

 

[ponytug]

Thanks Peter, I think that is what we will do. I did love having the mules here for a time - one issue was that they would not tolerate any dog they did not know. The guy that brought them had three heelers and that was no problem but we had to watchout for our dogs.

A while back I looked into a BLM(?) wild burro adoption program. There was a 'distribution' center in California as I recall. I think you had to take two, and convince them you had appropriate facilities and would take care of them properly. I may look at that again or find a mule. The mules that were here were - I think - retired park pack animals. Very affectionate - which surprised me.

We lived for a bit in a town that had a couple of burros in our local park. They were definitely fan favorites. I find them endearing.

I would definitely add a voice for raising low line cattle. We have raised low line belted galloways for about fifteen years now. Our goal is fire control first and a small stream of steers and heifers for sale, either on the hoof or for beef. Our bull was about 1200' and 42" at the shoulder; his dad was 1800', and 43", both pretty massive, but incredibly gentle. The cows and steers run closer to 36" at the shoulder and 6-800lbs, though we have one cow that is closer to 40" and 1,000lbs. We have found them to be gentle, easy to handle, and a pleasure to be around and work with. They are out in all weathers, and seem to thrive on even tough pastures. My wife is pretty petite, and had no trouble handling our bull. We have never been stepped on or pushed. We do have a sweep for running the cattle through for annual vaccinations.

We did consider Dexters, but in the end I am very glad we ended up with the belted galloways, as they have no horns.

Yes, while Japanese Waygu may be more tender, I think that belted galloways produce the best beef. "Mini" belted galloways can be quite small, 200-300lbs, and I am not sure that I would go that small.

Here is the herd, along with a fifteen hand Arabian "watch" horse.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Eagle1]

Dexter's are also on our radar. My wife has had a Dexter steak years ago and remembers it as being the best steak she's ever eaten. Something about being double muscled, I think. How is their temperament? Any danger working with them?

For the most part Dexter (like Belties) are very easy to work with. You will the the occasional cranky one but that means some head shaking, I can grab my bulls horn and move him out of the way when needed, just don't be between him and sweet feed, he won't stop just amble right to his bowl. All of ours have horns and I prefer that. They know their range and tap with their horn rather than slam their whole head at you like polled cattle tend to do. The come when called and rarely test the fencing. We started as complete newbies and nobody has been injured yet, well my wife likes to trip in the mud. If you are ever in MO I'll give you tour, or ask any Dexter (or Beltie) owners most are happy to show their animals.
As for mini sizes they are not much bigger than a dog (well my kind of dogs) something like 32 to 38 at the shoulder, standard dexters are still under ~4 foot for the most part. I can move most steers with my BX to get them to the house for processing, not lift but drag onto a trailer and pull them up using a pulley for processing. My bull and the current crossbred steer are more than BX would like, but the LS will do just fine.

 

[newbury]

You all are starting to want me to raise Dexter's and herd them with Corgi's! (my kind of dog )
/edit - how many acres of pasture would be needed for 3 Dexter's in north Mississippi?

 

[Eagle1]

Acres are hard to answer, really depends and will change as they eat their way trough. Best I can do is with 5 cows,bull and 3 steers a 4x5 bale of hay lasts right at a week in the winter. We do supplement a scoop of sweet feed per animal once a day, to keep them friendly. Might have to up a bit if it really gets cold below 10F or negative.
Right now there is no pasture (too dry) but they eating the acorns/persimmons and about half of normal hay usage.
I have to ration hay or my bull will make a nest to lay in by shredding a bale after moving the hay feeder out of the way.

 

[ericm979]

Grazing the grass down to the roots is great for fire but it's not so good for erosion or for maintaining the best species of grass. The least palatable species often survive the best when the land is grazed hard. So next years' forage is lower quality.

You might consider doing what ranchers did where I grew up (and still do now)- make firebreaks by discing or blading every year. Then you can decouple the grazing from the fire risk reduction.

Also if you already have a good cleared area around your buildings and the rest of the property is mostly grassland, having that burn is not all that bad. Grassland often comes back better after it's burned.

 

[ponytug]

@newbury to add to @Eagle1's description, if you actively move the cattle from an area that they can graze in 2-3 days, to new pasture, giving the land a month to eight weeks to recover, you will be able to stock higher levels than if you just turn the cattle loose in one big pasture. So, it depends, on rainfall, soil fertility, and management practices.

Here, it is about one cow calf pair for 10 acres, while across the valley to the east, it is closer to one per 15-20 acres, and the other side of our ridge going west, it is one cow calf pair per 5-7 acres.

All the best,

Peter

 

[LouNY]

And around here we can do a bit better then a cow/calve per tillable acre, but there is a considerable amount of forage that has to be put up for the winter and even some summer feeding. Tillage is a better utilization of ground here but it does drive cost up also. When our pastures are in there prime we are running 60 head on 4 to 6 acre parcels, in rotation.

 

[EddieWalker]

My fencing plan is to create 4 pastures of about a dozen acres each, with half being good quality grass, a quarter being wooded, and the other quarter being kind of a mix. Long term will be to increase the amount of grass and maybe even learn how to make round bales myself. Finding hay seems to be a challenge every other year because of rain, bugs or fertilizer. Seems it's always something!! The current plan is to rotate the animals into a fresh pasture every week, and keep them there for the week. Then I will have three weeks to work on, improve, clean up and spray the pasture they just left. Here, hay peaks in protein about every 30 days, so this should allow me to have the best grass for them, every week. This is all just my thoughts on doing this. I'm getting a 16 foot cattle trailer this weekend, so that's another step in the right direction.

I really enjoy reading everyones experience with Belted Galloways and Dexter's, or any other small breed of cattle.

 

[Eagle1]

The Dexters will eliminate all the woody growth down low and trim all your trees as high as they can reach. I started with overgrown ground they are are turning into grass land. Currently rotation is not a good solution but once I close up here they will gain a ton of pasture in the bottom of the holler and I won't be cutting grass every 5 days.
Hay is always a challenge in dry years it helps to have someone you do you long term business with, well until they change the rules mid stream. I finally found someone close that was expanding and I hope to do business with him long term. Most of the hay around here has a home before it is cut.
I have learned that cows you know well are good for the soul, it's peaceful to sit in the pasture and watch them feed, with most friendly coming up for a good scratch.

 

[ponytug]

My fencing plan is to create 4 pastures of about a dozen acres each, with half being good quality grass, a quarter being wooded, and the other quarter being kind of a mix. Long term will be to increase the amount of grass and maybe even learn how to make round bales myself. Finding hay seems to be a challenge every other year because of rain, bugs or fertilizer. Seems it's always something!! The current plan is to rotate the animals into a fresh pasture every week, and keep them there for the week. Then I will have three weeks to work on, improve, clean up and spray the pasture they just left. Here, hay peaks in protein about every 30 days, so this should allow me to have the best grass for them, every week. This is all just my thoughts on doing this. I'm getting a 16 foot cattle trailer this weekend, so that's another step in the right direction.

I really enjoy reading everyones experience with Belted Galloways and Dexter's, or any other small breed of cattle.

That sounds like a well thought out plan to me.

If you want to get in to haying, you might consider sharecropping it with an up and coming hay farmer, at least for a bit. You contribute land, they contribute machinery and perhaps labor and you split the results. It would give you a chance to learn by doing and see how much you want to do it before buying the equipment.

All the best,

Peter

 

[OldMcDonald]

Any suggestions will be appreciated. On my own, I will likely get ten young steers - Black Angus or Santa Gertrudis - which is what we had before - until the neighbor's bull visited. They are tolerant of heat and hardy.

Why was a visit from your neighbour's bull a problem with steers? Not trying to be picky, just curious. I am well aware of some bulls that just want to beat up everything that is not a cow in heat. I once had one attack a horse I was riding. Not sure if he wanted me or the horse.

On a more pertinent note. The advice of jyouts regarding buying steers post #6 is the best you will get. You know cattle and your local markets so might want to juggle the weights, but buying oung steers and selling according to your grazing needs is the simple answer.

No way that a miniature breed weighs that much. A full sized breed like angus will weigh in at about 1200 lbs. for a market ready steer.

As posted, your advice to buy steers gets my vote.

Belted Galloways are not normaly miniature. The original was black but a belted mutation was developed - very easy to spot in bad weather. It is possible it was a crossbred and not a mutation.

I agree with you that an Angus will be ready for killing at around 1200lbs (given that some breeders want extra size at the expense of quality), but I am aware of a farm in my native Northumberland that about 15 years ago had Galloways (Black & Belted) averaging killing at slightly over 1250lbs. My knowledge of the breed, admittedly limited, is that this would be about right - very close to AA in size in their original locations.

I am lucky in that having retired from a farming life around the world last year I now find myself in the situation (Orkney) where the nearest butcher's shop just happens to be run by an AA breeder. I only eat AA beef now. I used to eat my own bred beef, but this is better.

 

[beowulf]

Why was a visit from your neighbour's bull a problem with steers? Not trying to be picky, just curious. I am well aware of some bulls that just want to beat up everything that is not a cow in heat. I once had one attack a horse I was riding. Not sure if he wanted me or the horse.

OldMcDonald, When we bought the property we also bought the cows he had - they were not all steers. He had Santa Gertrudis cattle, but the neighbor had angus and other mixed breeds. So, when the neighbor's bulls tore through the fences and visited our cows, our cows started dropping other breeds, and from there on we had a bit of everything. My comment about steers was about what I would likely get now.

Years ago we had a bit of everything, including bulls. Our bulls were quite tame. The neighbor's bulls - well, that is a different story.

 

[Hay Dude]

Low line angus very docile and wont fence jump

 

[dodge man]

Can you mow it instead or is a lot of it not movable?

 

[OldMcDonald]

OldMcDonald, When we bought the property we also bought the cows he had - they were not all steers. He had Santa Gertrudis cattle, but the neighbor had angus and other mixed breeds. So, when the neighbor's bulls tore through the fences and visited our cows, our cows started dropping other breeds, and from there on we had a bit of everything. My comment about steers was about what I would likely get now.

Years ago we had a bit of everything, including bulls. Our bulls were quite tame. The neighbor's bulls - well, that is a different story.

OK. Now I understand.

 

[kenmac]

I don't know why, but black, and black baldy steers /cows bring the most money here