looking at ford 4400 industrial

[VTPSD]

Hi All,
I have lurked here many times as I have been tractor shopping for a few years now. I am finally getting close enough that I have a specific tractor to ask about. There is a ford 4400 diesel for sale locally. I am hoping to go see it this week. Dont know much about it yet, it has recent paint, and comes with a harley power rake. it has a 3pt and pto.
I own 15 acres in the mountain of vermont. We do have some pasture to mow. I would mostly be using a tractor to keep my 1/4 mile steep dirt driveway in shape. I think the power rake might be very helpful for that. I would also be skidding out a few logs for my firewood, cleaning out the horse barn/paddock, and doing other general homeowner stuff. I could also see myself using a tractor for snow removal. I currently have a very rusted old chevy to plow with, but it may not be much longer for the world.
What is the general concensus on these tractors? I have used a 445 diesel before and I was impressed on how heavy duty it was for small machine. I am no stranger to machinery, and have my own shop/welder so I am not afraid of repair or maintenance work. The asking price is $5900.
Is there anything I should check carefully besides the normal things? Any common issues for these type of tractors? I am hoping it is the regular manual transmission, i think i would have to pass on a selectospeed.

Thank you in advance. Hopefully I can make a deal on this and start getting my washed out driveway back in shape!

The other tractors I have looked at so far were a deere 1020 diesel and an allis 185 with a loader. Both needed some work, but the deere seemed a bit to small and the allis a bit to big. I do really like those generation allis tractors. I ran a 185 in high school with a 3 bottom plow and loved every minute of it. I think that engine had a great sound, but really it is probably to much tractor for what I need.

 

[VTPSD]

here is a picture. Notice the rear tires look quite worn.

 

[sd455dan]

View attachment 326465
here is a picture. Notice the rear tires look quite worn.

Is that the (actual) tractor If so having the loader is a huge plus as the price seemed a little high in your description above-Due to no loader.

If it is equipped with the loader 730-735?? and the tractor runs good it sounds like a fair deal, if it has the manual transmission (not the Selecto speed- they can be a great transmission) but some parts are getting next to impossible to get- let alone someone who has experience working on them...

The older Ford tractors and especially the industrials are well built tough machines my :2cents:

 

[VTPSD]

that is the actual tractor. I thought the price was decent, especially considering the power rake and bucket. Hoping the condition is good. It seems like it has a nice heavy front axle which is great for a loader tractor. I will report what I find when I see it in person.

 

[stuckmotor]

I'd want live PTO or something similar so, the PTO could be running at appropriate speed before the tractor was set in motion. To me, the specs at tractordata.com are a little confusing on this. Maybe they'll be clearer to you. TractorData.com Ford 4400 industrial tractor information
Good luck,
Stuck

 

[City Farmer]

Does it have any remotes and whats the condition of the Harley Rake? Those are crazy expensive everytime I've ever seen one, $2k and up. From the looks of the grill its probably an early 70's machine. I have a 68 and doesn't have a pto. Not sure if you know but the 4400 is a 63hp 4000 series tractor with a different front axle. You can add a 15' BH to it pretty easy if you wanted. I've seen a few around here cheap. How's the steering? That's the only complaint I've ever heard about the 4400-4500 series, mine is shot and I have to replace a rear axle seal.

 

[VTPSD]

It appears to have at least one set of remotes. Here is another picture. The harley rake appears to be older, but it supposedly works well. What is the common issue with steering? Just generally sloppy? The 445 that I borrowed from a neighbor was quite sloppy if I remember correctly.

 

[LD1]

Dad has a 4500 (which I am quite familiar with as we rebuilt alot of things on it), which is nearly identical to the 4400.

Price does sound a bit steep, but I dont know what harley rakes go for. Without the rake, I would say ~$4k would be more fair given the condition.

That looks like the 730 loader, which is a better match for a machine that size. The 4500 TLB dad has, has the 735 loader, which in all honesty is a bit overkill for the front axle of the 4400-4500.

As to the steering, it isnt true power steering. It is power-assist steering. Meaning there is a cylinder up in the front and still a mechanical linkage connecting the steering to the spindles. There is a valve on top of the cylinder that when it detects you trying to turn, it actuates the cylinder and "assists" you in the efforts.

So...it is far better than NO power steering, but still takes some effort. MY 5500 is TRUE power steering. I can take a pinkey finger and steer whenever I want, load in the bucket or not.

All in all, they are built tough and are a good machine. You need to go look at it in person though, test it out, and see if it is what you want. With that loader and those wheel weights, you are probably looking at a 7500# machine too. So you need a big trailer to haul.

 

[VTPSD]

thank you for the input. Hopefully I can see it tonight. Honestly, i don't know what the harley rakes are worth either. If it works well for gravel driveways, I would be putting it to use quite often since my driveway is steep, and heavy rain does a number on it. I do have a neighbor with a large equipment trailer, but its about 30 miles from home, so driving it home is not out of the question.

 

[VTPSD]

well i searched around on local craigslist and the prices on harley rakes ranged from $2000-4000. Most looked newer and a bit heavier than what is on this tractor, but i figure it must be valued at least at $1000. Hopefully I can see it work on something.

 

[VTPSD]

Finally got ahold of the owner. going to look at the tractor today. Seller is in the equipment business and took it in on trade. Has 3000 hours, he doesn't know if its been rebuilt, or really much history. He hasn't had a chance to start it in the cold since he has only had it since spring and only used it to condition the road at his place. It was used on cape cod on a cranberry bog mainly as road maintenance. I assume that harley rake has seen quite a bit of use.

 

[LD1]

Make sure the tach works. Cause if it dont, the hours dont count up and the 3000 will be a bogus number.

Kinda funny, dads 1966 4500 only shows 1005 hrs:laughing:

 

[City Farmer]

The tach works on my 3000 & 4400 but the hrs don't, lol. If those numbers are real then there's still a lot of life in the old girl. As for that H rake, around here as long as everything works it would be snatched up for $2k all day everyday. I'd check the usual, clutch, pto clutch, 3ph, leaks anywhere, hyd. Lines, worn nubs on clutch/break pedals - at 3000 hrs they will be worn but all should still be there. You know it needs tires so there's another $500-$700 for decent used. I'm not afraid to insult someone with an offer, worst he can say is no or leave. If it all checked out I'd throw (45) $100 bills at him and see what he does.

 

[VTPSD]

well i went and looked at the tractor. Overall it is in better shape than I thought it would be. No coolant in oil, no oil in coolant, started cold (65F) instantly and ran very very well. No smoking whatsoever. Everything worked well, the H rake worked just like it should, loader was tight. It has been painted but the tins are very straight. Clutch pedal bushing is pretty worn and makes the clutch feel a bit wobbly, but it grabs just fine and I couldnt get it to slip.

Now for the issues that i could find
-A short hose on the H rake leaks, will need replacement.
-a bit of play on the ball joint on the end of the steering rod (that runs from pitman arm to knuckle)
-some issue with the power steering shuttle valve. Not entirely sure how that is supposed to work, but it steers just fine one way, but barely any assist the other way.
-slow fuel leak from the seal at the bottom of the injection pump
-slow weap at the rear end (all fluid levels were good)
-rear tires are about done

The best I could get him to come down to was 5800 including rake and a 40 mile delivery. Does this sound fair? I am thinking it is. Only thing that I will NEED to do is replace that hose and figure out the steering valve issue.

 

[VTPSD]

oh, and tach does not work so hours are a mystery. Seems to be in that range however given wear on pedals. I dont think it has 10k plus hours on it, but no way to know for sure now.

 

[LD1]

Personally, I would keep looking unless you are in immediate need of a tractor/loader.

There are better deals out there.

As to the steering, one way will always steer easier than the other, and neither way offers very much "assist" IMO once one has been spoiled with true power steering.

The other things you mentioned are minor but will cost money to fix.

All in all, I think you could fix all the minor issues and be at ~6000, but then the issues of the tires being bald, with a big loader, not much rear weight (no backhoe), and in the mountains......

Tires would set you more money, so you will be looking at closer to $7000 to get the machine usable in your terrain if you plan on using the loader much.

Again, IMP, keep looking. He's about $2k too high IMO

 

[LD1]

Also, I think you will be fine with a smaller tractor. You mentioned having 15 acres, and mow a little pasture and some other general homeowner stuff.......given the mountains, I would be looking at used 4wd tractors with loaders.

The 4400 is pleanty big for the acreage you have. But who am I kidding, I have a 5500TLB and a kubota 3400 and only own 5 acres

 

[sd455dan]

oh, and tach does not work so hours are a mystery. Seems to be in that range however given wear on pedals. I dont think it has 10k plus hours on it, but no way to know for sure now.

I couldn't tell from the picture- but would make sure it is equipped with a pto, don't think you made mention of it but if you want to till ,brush hog, snow blow, post hole drill- well you get the idea... OOps see it running the harley rake

As far as price look at the capabilities verses even an $8000 used cut or scut that - Fords loader will likley lift 2000lbs. to full height,and that type of loader is built strong, and I recently priced loaders although removable... they were all more than the purchase price of the complete tractor setup you are looking at... I just think that price seems pretty fair for what capabilities you get.. and a harley rake to boot...

 

[VTPSD]

thanks for the thoughts guys. I am going to mull it over tonight. Its not perfect, but it does seem like a lot of tractor for the money. There isnt anything around here in the same ball park for that price that I could find. Lots of kubotas for 15k plus, but I cant really spend more than 6k. I am leaning towards it since I do need something right off because my 1/4 driveway is getting in really bad shape and is almost unpassable at this point. The harley rake is what makes it seems like a deal to me. Without it I would not be willing to pay $5800. Also the loader and bucket appear to be in great shape. No welds or plating like a couple other similar fords that I have looked at.

 

[VTPSD]

and yes, it does have a pto.