Looking at a 441 Stihl

[stihlman]

I bought a new MS441 in 2006 when they were introduced, it was a great saw and I cut alot of wood with it, primarily used a 25" bar but on some occasions I ran a 28" and it handled it fine buried in oak. I recently traded the MS441 in on the new MS441R CM. This model comes with a high output oiler, 3/4 wrap handlebar and heavier anti-vibe springs for a better feel with longer bars. The main addition is the M Tronic electronically controlled carb that is constantly being adjusted for maximum power output for the conditions. I have ran about 5 tanks through it so far and it is really amazing how it runs for a bone stock saw without even as much as a muffler modification. In smaller wood say 20" or so it cuts as fast or faster than my MS660. By the way KYboy, MS441 have ALWAYS had an adjustable bar oil pump. In my area of the country I couldn't buy a Dolmar if I wanted to as the only dealers listed in their locator usually turn out to be a place with a sign out front and only a few smaller saws in stock, no 7900s to be found and now I understand that no 7900's will be available until this spring due to EPA issues

Steve

 

[KYboy]

I stand corrected. I was just going by what a dealer told me. However, I also looked at Stihl's website prior to calling him and it made no mention of the adjustable oiler on it's list of features, so I figured the dealer knew what he was talking about. Obviously stihlman you know more about the 441's features than I, or the dealer I called to inquire more about it does.

 

[jcmseven]

How much more does the M tronic cost?

John M

 

[stihlman]

That is the case more often than not KY, alot of dealers, of all kinds of products, don't really know their product line as well as they should. I suspect in this case your dealer was trying to push the 460 because shortly there will be a newer replacement coming out, the 461, and he wants to move his old stock. The 460 is a great saw but technology has advanced since it was introduced and it needs an update. The M-tronic versions of the 441 are more expensive than the standard ones, I am not sure of how much exactly but the standard 441's are going to be phased out so all will have the M-tronic fuel system, which is similar to Husky's auto tune. My saw is the R version with has the 3/4 wrap handle bar and other goodies and it is about $40 higher than the standard 441 CM. I would suggest you consider them and do your own research, both here and arboristsite.com and buy what you like from a good dealer that can take care of any issues your have. Dealer support is a good thing, no matter what brand you chose.
Steve

 

[Bigfoot62]

I think that has MUCH less to do with it than the reasons I mentioned.

If by that statement, you are somehow implying that stihl saws are more reliable than the competition. Because that is not a factual statement.

Factual statement? You wanna talk about facts? You can't handle the facts! :laughing:

You're entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. Please remember that I was expressing an opinion and my personal observations. I didn't cite any statistics or claim to be an authority.

I think that reliability has EVERYTHING to do with it. When you are self-employed and depending on a piece of equipment to make a living, down-time will kill you. I'm not a logger, but here on my farm, reliability has everything to do with it. I have a limited amount of time to do my farm work, since farming does not provide me with a living. Down-time kills me too.
I did not say that a Stihl was more dependable that a Dolmar. (or any other brand, for that matter)
What I said was:

Dealer network and service is very important. Mechanical stuff will eventually break or wear out. Things have to be replaced. And, if you have a tree down across your fence, you need it now, not in a few days.

While I agree that most businesses like to have all of the equipment the same brand for convienence, there's another reason: Stihl saws work. Very, very little down time. And down time is money lost. Period. It's simple economics.

Contrary to what many people see on Ax Men, or other TV shows, most loggers around here are small companies with a handful of employees. (and those will likely be family) The "grunts" have a lot to do with which saw is purchased, since the owner will be using it himself.

Just my :2cents:

BTW, I know what a Dolmar is, I just stated that nobody I know uses them.

And, I stand by my statements.

 

[Jamming]

If you buy a 460 magnum and put a two port muffler on it and adjust fuel oil correctly you will be hard pressed to find a better power to weight ratio saw. I have a few logger buddies and they have run almost every saw made, they all run the 460 Stihl. Parts availability is excellent and there more field serviceable than most saws. I have a new 2010 460 magnum 36" bar for my bigger fire wood and if it's sharp it will not bog down no matter how hard you lean on it, cutting old growth Douglas fir.

Ms280
Ms200t
Ms460
Ms361
Shindawa 695 pro
Husqvarna x 3 models ?

 

[deerehunter/operator]

I have had a 441 for a couple years and love it. Its very smooth and good on fuel as others have said. I wouldnt hesitate to buy one at all.

 

[stihlman]

There is no doubt the MS460 is a great saw, they have been proven over many years of service in all kinds of conditions. I have a 2009 MS660 with a 36" bar that is a horse also. The big advantage the newer Stihls like the 441 M tronic is the increased power due to the constant tuning of the carb for maximum power. The fuel mileage and anti-vibe are much better as well. I think the M tronic system is just a bridge technology between the standard carbertors and fuel injection which is not far off I can't wait until the MS661 fuel injected is introduced.

Steve

 

[xyz123]

I can't wait until the MS661 fuel injected is introduced.

Steve

I think the 461 will be first. Saved some demo 461 pics to a thread.

Havent seen any 661 yet. :drool:

 

[Chilly807]

I think I'm pretty comfortable with a carburetor instead of fuel injection. I think the most expensive carb kit I've ever bought was about $20. I doubt there's many parts in a saw fuel injection system you'll be able to buy for less than $20.

I guess I'm just cheap. To me, a chain saw is just a tool I use. The less expensive it is to maintain the more money I have for either retirement or things I consider more important.

I'm not into hot-saws and "racing", so it's a different perspective.

Sean

 

[LD1]

The fuel mileage and anti-vibe are much better as well.
Steve

I dont get much fuel mileage out of any of my saws. I cut all day long carrying my saw around and burn over a gallon of fuel. Bt the saw never makes it more than ~1/4 mile. So....1/4 mile (or 4 gallons/mile) isnt too good:laughing::laughing:

I agree with Sean though, I am not looking forward to fuel injection. Carbs are fine with me. Easier to work on, easier to tune, easier to fix, and cheaper to boot.:thumbsup:

 

[art]

I think that has MUCH less to do with it than the reasons I mentioned.

If by that statement, you are somehow implying that stihl saws are more reliable than the competition. Because that is not a factual statement.

I can't talk about the dolmar as like others here there are no dealers in our area. I can tell you that many of our pro people DO work on their own saws!

I can also say that when we gave up Husky four years ago and went with just Stihl the warrantee work we were doing on the Husky was double the amount that we did on the stihls for identical sales per dollar.

The one thing I will let people know is we did a lot of "husky tune-ups" from people that were cutting at full throttle when running out of fuel. Many people just swapped them off at that time do to the cost of the pison and jug and having nearly the amount of a new saw when fixed. You should stop cutting and refuel at appropriate time so as not to run out of fuel!

I do know of customers that do enjoy the way a husky feels and that seems to be the largest reason for their purchase.

Personally depending on the amount of wood to cut I'd still stay with a 20" bar and just make two cuts if it is only for a dozen or so trees. You could have three extra chains for the price of a big bar!

 

[xyz123]

I'm with you Chilly. I'm staying old school for as long as possible.

Heck the dealer shops dont even have the diagnostic machines to trouble shoot these new saws yet. They just start throwing parts and chips at them hoping they find the problem.

 

[PLUMMER]

Hmmmm..... The pro's don't use dolmar's but a weekend warrior part timer suggests their better ??? I missed something here. They might be a decent saw, but you'll always wish you had a Stihl. There is a reason stihl is by far the most popular among pros, if it has to make you money for a living, you don't take chances. I just cant see using a big saw for a few trees when a perfect 360 will do fine. All these huge bars on small saws and big heavy saws for occasional use. I'm all good for the just gotta have it crowd, but for application, you just can't justify it. Don't forget, oil pumps don't always keep up with larger than recommended bars. A 440 & 460 is a bucking/fellers saw. JMO of course.

 

[jcmseven]

Plummer, you make a good point and one which I appreciate. I like the 441 saw based on its features and power (and the fact I could get a good deal on it) but really do not want something too big. I do not use my saws that much but when I do I use them on large wood and mostly oak, poplar, birch, etc. These trees are tall and thick and have fallen around my acreage from a mature hardwood forest. I very rarely cut down existing trees as I cannot chance the additional risk of felling much of what I have on the erratic terrain around my house. I leave that to the pro's. I can and do, though, cut downed trees (I have a lot of them) around my property and want something that will cut better than my example Stihl--and more quickly. I do not, though, want something so cumbersome that it defeats the purpose of having it. Much like with tractors: my current JD 2320 is as fast doing most of what I do on my terrain as was my old, much larger 4520 due to its maneuverability and I am sure the same can be said for saws. I have not purchased anything yet, as I want to get feedback and make sure I get the saw I will use and enjoy using for many years to come. I would say I am partial to Stihl power equipment but am not brand blind if there is a more suitable offering out there from another company.

John M

 

[LD1]

Hmmmm..... The pro's don't use dolmar's but a weekend warrior part timer suggests their better ??? I missed something here. They might be a decent saw, but you'll always wish you had a Stihl. There is a reason stihl is by far the most popular among pros, if it has to make you money for a living, you don't take chances. I just cant see using a big saw for a few trees when a perfect 360 will do fine. All these huge bars on small saws and big heavy saws for occasional use. I'm all good for the just gotta have it crowd, but for application, you just can't justify it. Don't forget, oil pumps don't always keep up with larger than recommended bars. A 440 & 460 is a bucking/fellers saw. JMO of course.

Wow, got something personal against me????

First time you visit in 2 months and you dig up a couple of older threads and single me out here:confused2:

You are right though, I certainly not a pro and not need a saw to make a living. But I do know saws pretty well. But like you said, I am just a "weekend warrior". JUST like everyone else on here asking opinions on saws. So this is just one weekend warriors advice to another.

I dont own a stihl because for the price, I could get a more powerful saw of another make. If Ive got $750 to spend on a new saw, and want the fastest and most powerful saw I can get for that money, it certainly aint a stihl.

Not to take that as meaning stihls are bad. Because they are a good saw. I just want MORE for my money.

And the more post you make, it is becoming very clear that you have never ran a dolmar. And if you want to know what the "pros" say, why dont you pay a visit to arboristsite.com and see what they say about saws like the 5105 and 7900. Perhaps that will open you brand blind eyes a bit.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on what saws they like and everyone has a right to share there opinions and experiences with the different brands. But I dont much care for blatant brand bashing and singling a person out, without any informed facts to back anything up.

I'll ask again, what saws do you run??

 

[arrow]

Well I logged for 30 years and I never wished I had a Stihl. I mean I owned plenty of them but what I observed was that a "crew" would tend to buy what everyone else had for a given area. It also had more to do with the dealers and what they'd sell and work on a saw for. As they all break and they can all be good, I've had saws of the same model with both those characteristics and thus had no brand loyalty or affinity. I understand there are a few crews up in Maine that use Dolmars. I mean so what. It may mean absolutely nothing as to have one brand stand against another because "loggers" use them. There are too many other variables like dealers in an area, ergonomic preferences and egocentricities that go into it and thus why talking up or down any saw is like p$$$$g in the wind. Buy what's comfortable from the dealer near you. Mix the gas right and don't run over it with the tractor and as a weekend warrior or less, chances are your saw will last a lifetime and I don't care who makes it.

 

[LD1]

Well I logged for 30 years and I never wished I had a Stihl. I mean I owned plenty of them but what I observed was that a "crew" would tend to buy what everyone else had for a given area. It also had more to do with the dealers and what they'd sell and work on a saw for. As they all break and they can all be good, I've had saws of the same model with both those characteristics and thus had no brand loyalty or affinity. I understand there are a few crews up in Maine that use Dolmars. I mean so what. It may mean absolutely nothing as to have one brand stand against another because "loggers" use them. There are too many other variables like dealers in an area, ergonomic preferences and egocentricities that go into it and thus why talking up or down any saw is like p$$$ in the wind. Buy what's comfortable from the dealer near you. Mix the gas right and don't run over it with the tractor and as a weekend warrior or less, chances are your saw will last a lifetime and I don't care who makes it.

Well said:thumbsup: