Long range wireless router help

[zmjc]

Is a wired connection (buried or aerial) an option, and if so, is power available at some in-between point? 1000' rolls of cat5 cable plus a plug crimp set are not very expensive, and an inexpensive powered hub/switch at a rough halfway point would be plenty to accommodate a run of that length.

Nick

I wouldn't recommend that. The first lightning storm would fry lots of equipment at both ends. Consumer electronics is terrible for that.

If you wanted a wired connection, you should use fiber, since it is impervious to lightning. But that's beyond the OP's network-sophistication.

The OP needs a line-of-sight wireless "bridge". Like this. "Line-of-sight" means you have to be able to see the two antennas from each other. Lots of people make those. You would still want to find the neighbourhood geek and pay him/her to twiddle the settings for you...

- Mike

 

[dmccarty]

Before we got DSL, one of my neighbors, whose house is 220 feet from ours, was paying for DirectTV Internet. ON a good day, I could see the wireless network he was using as an available one on my laptop, but I never tried to connect to it.

As I interpret your post, trying to get internet from a neighbor with their knowledge and permission is not illegal, but if I tried to get internet from my neighbor without his knowledge, would that be illegal?

My wife sometimes takes a laptop to her folks house, and is often able to connect wirelessly to a neighbors Internet, without their knowledge. Is that illegal?

NC has numerous statutes that would cover the above. Using your neighbor's access with or without their permission could fall under several criminal statutes. Some of the statues are technology specific and others are not.

Bottom line, the service provider's service is being used without payment, i.e., stolen in any of the above scenarios. The service provider is sells access to the one house hold. Not the second. The OP wants to hook up to the neighbor because he does not WANT to pay for the service.

I would be surprised if the OP's state does not have statutes that make what he is trying to do illegal. Some of the NC statutes would be interesting court cases applied to the OP's case. One really does not want to be the defendant in a criminal case interesting or not. :laughing:

On the other hand there are fairly cut and dry statutes covering the case regardless of technology.

Later,
Dan

 

[tungularafishcamp]

If you buy your dish/modem for hughsnet you don't have to do a contract. I bought used equipt last year and it has been great and that way I just shut it off the months I am not at camp.
Rick

 

[KTurner]

NC has numerous statutes that would cover the above. Using your neighbor's access with or without their permission could fall under several criminal statutes. Some of the statues are technology specific and others are not.

Bottom line, the service provider's service is being used without payment, i.e., stolen in any of the above scenarios. The service provider is sells access to the one house hold. Not the second. The OP wants to hook up to the neighbor because he does not WANT to pay for the service.

I dunno. Technically, access is only being provided to the router in the first house. The ISP does not directly communicate with any other device (the router is the only device with a routable IP address). The second house is asking a device (the router) in the first house to relay messages, just like an additional computer in the first house would. This would be similar to my neighbor asking me to call someone on my telephone to relay a message, just a whole lot of times. Is it illegal if I let my neighbor use my phone? Or if he sits on his back porch at night using the light from my flood light to read by?

Violation of terms of service, sure. Breach of contract, sure. Criminal act, I don't see it. Of course, there are strange/odd/nonsense laws on the books all over.

One really does not want to be the defendant in a criminal case interesting or not. :laughing:

Full agreement there.

Keith

 

[boggen]

wireless card but what type of internet do you have. there are multi types.

====================

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and do a look up for WISP (wireless internet service provider) it is not cellphone broadband connection. it is a wireless broad band connection.

many places around here. all the cell phone towers are also same towers for generic antenna TV. are also the same towers WISP providers use.

on the tower they have a dish or antenna. and then they come out to your house. do a single check first with there own little antenna/ dish on there laptop. if they get good single. they can install. and can be much cheaper than a cellphone broadband connection. example verision or att charging 80 bucks a month. this is more like 20 to 40 bucks a month. for a WISP. sadly i have to many trees and just out of range for WISP so i am left with satalite. though a mile or 2 down road. folks can go with WISP.

because WISP are wireless. they need direct line of site of tower. at least i do here. for there outdoor antenna.

==================

i can never remember type of antenna to state. omni or bi-directional. i want to say omni antenna. i have looked at before would cost me about 300 bucks. to run from house to a smaller cabin back on a lake on this farm. they operate in same 2.4 ghz frequency as other things in the house (cordless phones, other wireless routers and like) all they are is an antenna. but ya need the router that can act like a repeater / bridge. the newer cheap stuff coming out on the market is starting to have these options as defaults. but a couple years ago. ya had to pay 100 plus to get into the upper end of things, that had a descent antenna plus gain, on router or bridge or repeater.

the antenna's i was looking at, were point to point narrow beam i guess you could say. meaning you had to align each antenna at both spots so they point directly at each other. and if you were off enough in an angle. you were in trouble. also there was need of a line of sight with nothing blocking them. (trees, weeds, buildings, etc...)

 

[dmccarty]

I dunno. Technically, access is only being provided to the router in the first house. The ISP does not directly communicate with any other device (the router is the only device with a routable IP address). The second house is asking a device (the router) in the first house to relay messages, just like an additional computer in the first house would. This would be similar to my neighbor asking me to call someone on my telephone to relay a message, just a whole lot of times. Is it illegal if I let my neighbor use my phone? Or if he sits on his back porch at night using the light from my flood light to read by?

OP does not want to pay for service and has so stated.

OP want to use the service from his neighbor to avoid paying.

OP would be stealing the service under NC law.

The difference between your letting your neighbor using your phone is that the neighbor has to come to your house. The OP will be using the service from HIS house. The correct comparison would be the OP going to the neighbor's house to use the connection.

A better comparison would be your neighbor connecting to your phone service and using it without paying. But this would tie up your phone line when the neighbor used the line and you would have to share the same number. Would you allow this? I doubt it. The OP's neighbor does not care about sharing the service because it likely will not affect her service.

Later,
Dan

 

[k0ua]

What she is doing is "illegal" as she is violating her service agreement to not sell or give away the service to others. she has become at that point an ISP an Internet Service Provider. But she probably doesnt even know any better. she thinks the service is hers to do with what ever she pleases, as she "pays for it".. wrong,. but anyway, of course there many many ways to get that signal over to the other house. But should we be helping,? I don't know.

James K0UA

 

[ShaleniFarm]

I have successfully gone approx 1000 feet with this:

PicoStation M | Ubiquiti Networks, Inc.

Pure line of sight required. Worked on my Thinkpad T61. Would have to put a better wirelesss card/usb device on a desktop.

I was able to "see" it from about 1500 feet, but not do anything with it, couldn't establish a connection. This was all in the winter, with no leaves, etc.

Have fun!

 

[radioman]

you guys bring up many good points here. What her service agreement says? I dont know. I only show what is possible. there is probably some TBN'er needs internet from home to barn over same distance.
One person brought up phone internet, I forgot all about that. I have a blackberry I use for internet to my laptop sometimes and data only is 40 bucks a month, so its pretty cheap and decent for internet connection anywhere. :thumbsup: Surely the OP can do that with no issues. USB cable from blackberry/iphone to laptop. install software and away you go on internet.

 

[WVBill]

One other issue with using your neighbor's Hughesnet - you run a higher possibility of getting her "FAPed".
FAP = "Fair Access Policy". In the Hughes Terms of Service, if you go over a certain amount of usage in a 24 hour period, they have the right to (and do) reduce your throughput down to a crawl - like as bad as what you're seeing now... You stay in the "FAP penalty box" for 24 hours....

I had Hughesnet for several years and just got tired of the latency and frequent outages from satellite transponders going down.

I've been with Verizon - on a tower over 5 miles away and not LOS for over three years and it has worked flawlessly. The only extra gear I needed was a grid antenna and the low-loss coax to get inside to my modem...

What kind of wireless card are you using? Who is the carrier? What is the signal strength you're getting? Since you are getting some signal sometimes, there's a good possibility you can increase your signal strength, lock the card in EVDO mode and get MUCH better performance for very little cost.

 

[JDgreen227]

you guys bring up many good points here. What her service agreement says? I dont know. I only show what is possible. there is probably some TBN'er needs internet from home to barn over same distance.
One person brought up phone internet, I forgot all about that. I have a blackberry I use for internet to my laptop sometimes and data only is 40 bucks a month, so its pretty cheap and decent for internet connection anywhere. :thumbsup: Surely the OP can do that with no issues. USB cable from blackberry/iphone to laptop. install software and away you go on internet.

Have a Blackberry with Verizon as service provider, and although Verizon has extensive data coverage for most of the country there are still areas with none. Your solution would work well IF OP can get coverage where he lives. Back in 2002 I was on the fringe of coverage north of Lansing, Michigan, my device had no service a half mile north of our home. But they have expanded a lot since then.

 

[bigtiller]

I can honestly say that I am an enabler just like your neighbor, but I am trying to cut down. The problem is, my friends keep leaving.

This day in age, there is no way I would allow ANYONE to piggy back off my computer. You never know what they may be into that may or may not lead to a criminal investigation.

 

[zmjc]

This day in age, there is no way I would allow ANYONE to piggy back off my computer. You never know what they may be into that may or may not lead to a criminal investigation.

A more likely scenario is the neighbour's kids would download pirated movies and music... and civil-lawsuit lawyers would come looking at your IP address...

- Mike

 

[KTurner]

OP does not want to pay for service and has so stated.

OP want to use the service from his neighbor to avoid paying.

OP would be stealing the service under NC law.

The difference between your letting your neighbor using your phone is that the neighbor has to come to your house. The OP will be using the service from HIS house. The correct comparison would be the OP going to the neighbor's house to use the connection.

A better comparison would be your neighbor connecting to your phone service and using it without paying. But this would tie up your phone line when the neighbor used the line and you would have to share the same number. Would you allow this? I doubt it. The OP's neighbor does not care about sharing the service because it likely will not affect her service.

Later,
Dan

If I buy X units of something (whether its megabytes of transfer, Twinkies, etc), and want to give some away, I disagree that its criminal stealing. Stealing would be me taking more than I paid for. If I paid for X and took X+1 from the provider, then I'm stealing. If I paid for X and used X-5 myself then gave my neighbor 3, then I'm not stealing. If the agreement was they were non-transferable, then I'm in violation of the agreement for transferring them, but I'm still not stealing.

I hear Canada recently passed a law that would remove some of the ambiguity about this, requiring ISPs to charge based on metered usage instead of selling "unlimited" plans (that were never really unlimited to behind with).

Keith

 

[MossRoad]

I agree this could work, but I picked the old school approach since the OP is unkowledgable in what equipment to get and how to hookup.

As for illegal hook up- if it was direct wire connection, how can it be since his neighbor expressed saying go ahead , borrow my network? if it wireless, well its open for interpretation.:laughing: I'd be leery of trying to do a 17 mile hookup since her hookup is satellite and they are terrible for bandwidth issues. everybody would be trying to check out her network within 17 mile and each person trying to authenticate themselves will steal a little bit of bandwidth and each one will add up. hugesnet will cut back on internet bandwidth if MB exceeds said amount and will not tell you until you call and check.

Read your contract with any internet service provider. It is illegal to share the connection, wired, wireless or any other way. They can prosecute you for theft.

The bridge units I mentioned are set up to talk only to each other. Point to point only. The directional antennas make if very hard to look at them from a different angle as well. Also, since the two houses he is talking about are only 600' apart and direct line of sight, I doubt there will be many snoopers looking at it. :thumbsup: As I recall, there is also selectable power settings in those radios so you can turn down the power to lower the effective range.

 

[MossRoad]

How is trying to get internet from your neighbor, with their knowledge and permission, illegal? It might be a violation of the terms of service for his neighbor, but that doesn't make it criminal.

Keith

Illegal may be the improper term. However, it is theft. The neighbor that has the contract with the internet service provider can be charged with theft. Theft, as I understand it, is criminal. Am I mistaken? I don't think so, but would appreciate a good discussion.

 

[zzvyb6]

I bought a 1000' roll of CAT6 underground cable and I can run my Security cameras and DVR thru it to any computer and router. It was from eBay with connectors already on it. Could you then run a slave router with wireless broadcast off of hers using the hardwire connection?

 

[MossRoad]

If you tell the OP what he wants to do is illegal, and you provide advice on how to accomplish such an illegal end, doesn't that implicate you REGARDLESS of your cautionary warning? Keep this going, guys, I want to learn a way to do it...illegal or not.

Nope. I am as pure as the driven snow in the eyes of the law and in my moral conscience. :dance1:

I told him how to hook up a point to point internet connection. That's all I told him how to do. He could do the same thing between his house and his barn or his work and his home. If he chooses to steal internet access in cahoots with his neighbor, that is up to him and his neighbor. I am in no way shape or form condoning that dubious dastardly deed.

 

[beppington]

As for illegal hook up- if it was direct wire connection, how can it be since his neighbor expressed saying go ahead , borrow my network?

If your neighbor says go ahead & borrow my cable TV via direct wire connection, that's illegal. Prob not much difference here, but then I don't know OP's neighbor's internet provider, their T&C's, details of the agreement, etc.

 

[k0ua]

I bought a 1000' roll of CAT6 underground cable and I can run my Security cameras and DVR thru it to any computer and router. It was from eBay with connectors already on it. Could you then run a slave router with wireless broadcast off of hers using the hardwire connection?

Yes, just make sure that the network you put into the WAN port on your router is a different one than your LAN network. In otherwords, different subnets for WAN and LAN. I dont know how much connectivity you are going to get over 1000 foot of CAT6 tho. I have run about 500 foot, and there was some degredation. but 1000 foot is way way way out of the 328 foot spec called for. I am not sure you will get a link with 1000 foot. may depend on the NIC's on each end. Let us know how well it works.
And don't forget about the lightning problem, any copper wire in the ground is a lightning magnet. You know fiber is cheap, and impervious to lighting, and the electronics on each end are getting cheaper every day. Or maybe you dont have much lighting where you live, but we sure do here.

James K0UA