Logsplitter 2.0

[LD1]

I just played with some numbers.....boy you are right on the cusp. Just barley not working.

You know how an over center latch works....like skid loader quick attach pins......that's sorta what you got going on when you lower the lift. It's almost cam-locking itself into place in which no amount of force will lift.

Assuming AC is 25", BC (cylinder) is 19"....simply lowering the cylinder base mount by 1" has a huge impact.

With AB at 7"....you now have a 9.5* angle. Which yields 16% power. Using a nice round 14k @ 2000 psi.....that 16% gives you a lift force of 2240#.

Account for the leverage aspect....25"/34.5"... you have about 72% of that 2240# available at the center of where a round would be....or about 1600#. Less any dead weight of course.

Drop the pivot another inch....down to 8" and you are now in a 14* angle, with 24% power avaliable to lift. Accounting to the 72% leverage effect....you can lift 2400# at log cl.

It seems you didn't miss the geometry my much at all. Moving that pivot away from the table for clearance....made that cylinder way too close to parallel with the AC line. Like I said....you "just" missed it. But shouldn't be a terrible fix at all.

If you are handy with trig (sin,cos,tan) look up law of cosines......you can easily follow what I did. Only other formula required is the formula for a cylinder on an angle. And that's simple cylinder force x sin(angle)

 

[Leejohn]

The center line of the cyl pin and the C/L of the table well work a lot better if they are not the same. I.m talking away from splitter.

 

[rswyan]

I just played with some numbers.....boy you are right on the cusp. Just barley not working.

You know how an over center latch works....like skid loader quick attach pins......that's sorta what you got going on when you lower the lift. It's almost cam-locking itself into place in which no amount of force will lift.

Yup, sure do ... had to allow for that when I built the grapple, to avoid having the upper jaw become "locked" if it went past 180 degrees.

With the original rod end attachment point (for the 2" cylinder) on the log lift, the (smaller) cylinder sat at more of an initial angle ...

When I redid it for the 3" cylinder, I moved it lower and inwards (C closer to B) ... which reduced the initial angle.

While the original 2" cylinder wouldn't lift very large (48") or heavy (green sycamore) rounds, it would actually lift quite a bit ... I had it piled up on a number of occasions with 3, 4, 5 or 6 decent-sized rounds.

Moral of the story: The angle of the dangle do make a difference.

Assuming AC is 25", BC (cylinder) is 19"....simply lowering the cylinder base mount by 1" has a huge impact.

With AB at 7"....you now have a 9.5* angle. Which yields 16% power. Using a nice round 14k @ 2000 psi.....that 16% gives you a lift force of 2240#.

Account for the leverage aspect....25"/34.5"... you have about 72% of that 2240# available at the center of where a round would be....or about 1600#. Less any dead weight of course.

Drop the pivot another inch....down to 8" and you are now in a 14* angle, with 24% power avaliable to lift. Accounting to the 72% leverage effect....you can lift 2400# at log cl.

Both are probably way, way more than what I'd ever want to lift ... considering the hazard if a round that large - or even just half of it - got away.

But it probably wouldn't be bad to have the power there.

It seems you didn't miss the geometry my much at all. Moving that pivot away from the table for clearance....made that cylinder way too close to parallel with the AC line.

Exactly.

Like I said....you "just" missed it. But shouldn't be a terrible fix at all.

Yeah ... it won't be too bad.

Worst part will probably be having to overhead weld the cylinder base end attachment point on the beam.

The rod end on the lift itself will be fairly easy, since I can just pull the lift off after marking it.

If you are handy with trig (sin,cos,tan) look up law of cosines......you can easily follow what I did.

I am anything but handy with trig ... :laughing:

Although I could probably learn it, now that I'm older ... and a bit less of a wild child as I was in HS ...

Only other formula required is the formula for a cylinder on an angle. And that's simple cylinder force x sin(angle)

Surplus Center Tech Help ...

 

[rswyan]

I would change the log lift design to one long side, one angle and the base. I think that would give you a better push angle for the log lift.

View attachment 479290 View attachment 479291

The one long side works well to stage smaller rounds to be split.

Probably would have been the better way to go, all things considered (like those hinges ... :thumbsup

Might consider it at some point ... if I ever get flush again ...

 

[rswyan]

The center line of the cyl pin and the C/L of the table well work a lot better if they are not the same. I.m talking away from splitter.

C/L of the table hinge ?

 

[rswyan]

May be onto to something ...

Was just inspecting the screw for unloader valve ... I can turn it either way and there is no change in the height of the screw head.

Almost looks like it's turned in so far that it went beyond the threads.

If that's the case, I'd imagine that it's set as high as it will go ... which would explain the engine stalling.

Ok, after doing a some poking around on the internet, it appears I was mistaken.

What I thought was the unloader adjustment screw - located under a threaded plug on the output side of the pump - is apparently a "plunger" ...

Evidently, the unloader adjustment screw is under a cap on the supply/inlet side of the pump ... at least according to the info in post no. 4 in the thread below:

Adjusting unloading on 2-Stage log splitter Pump

Kudos to TBN member jejeosborne for his research on the matter.

Off to put this newly acquired into to practical use ...

 

[rswyan]

Lo and behold in my email inbox this morning there was an email from HF with a Super Coupon for the 6.5 hp Predator engine for $99.99 (regularly $119.99)

Called the local store and they have the hemi version of the engine (item no. 60363) in stock, which is supposedly better than the non-hemi.

So I think the die is cast as far as the re-power goes.

Also called my steel supplier back on the pricing of the 1" x 3" bar stock - was $30 for 2' ... and $25 for 1' ... lol.

They will have 2' cut and ready tomorrow morning.

Now to go check that unloader valve ...

 

[/pine]

These were the two logs I tried last night.

The one on the left (that I couldn't lift) is what I think is ash ... notice how the cracks along it's length are straight, as opposed to the smaller sycamore on the right where the cracks spiral:

View attachment 479277

The (longest) diameter dimensions were 31" for the ash, 19" for the sycamore.

Do you split/burn sycamore for heat?...I'm familiar with where it stands on the BTU/cord charts...but have never split enough to see how it burns...am curious as I have loads of sycamore logs...

 

[rswyan]

Do you split/burn sycamore for heat?...I'm familiar with where it stands on the BTU/cord charts...but have never split enough to see how it burns...am curious as I have loads of sycamore logs...

I'm about to ...

I tried burning a little of it last year, but it was mostly very green when I got it (around this time last year) - to the point that the sap was just oozing out of it when I tried to split it.

I split a little of it tonight and it seems pretty well seasoned at this point. Split, it doesn't look like it would keep real well ... mebbe two years or so ?

My understanding is that it isn't particularly great as firewood, but isn't too bad either.

 

[rswyan]

Re-power done:

Everything mated/matched up perfectly. Threw some Permatex anti-seize on the inside of the engine-side Lovejoy coupling, also threw some on the bolts for the pump bracket.

Filled the crankcase up with Castrol straight 30w and filled the tank with gas and a shot of Seafoam.

Engine fired right up ... once I figured out that I had bungied the log lift control valve in "retract" and took that off ... :laughing:

Let it run at 1/3 throttle for several minutes just to make sure nothing sounded weird and then cranked it up and let it run for another few minutes at full throttle. Was pretty surprised at how quiet it is ... seems way quieter than the Briggs Intek that it replaced. Makes me wonder if it is actually running at full rated RPM.

Before I fired it up I ran the adjustment screw for the pump unloader valve all the way in and then backed it out three full turns (I think ... )

Loaded it by deadheading the log lift valve (Prince RD5200) and checked the relief pressure ... 2000 psi ... and it didn't kill the engine ... although it might have if I had held it there long enough.

Popped the cap on the log lift relief and cranked in the adjustment screw, setting it to 2500 psi by the gauge.

Then threw a piece of that sycamore on the rail and attempted to split it with the 4-way ... no soap ... need to add more of a knife on the edge like LD suggested.

Pulled the 4-way and split the round with the fixed wedge.

After that I took it out and gave it a little workout ... mostly ash and a little oak:

Only thing I noticed is that I probably need to adjust the detent pressure up on the valve for the push block cylinder ... it kept popping the valve out of extend while I was trying to split.

 

[Ford850]

Do you split/burn sycamore for heat?...I'm familiar with where it stands on the BTU/cord charts...but have never split enough to see how it burns...am curious as I have loads of sycamore logs...

Sycamore burns similar to soft maple and poplar. It splits easy, dries nice, but burns fast. Mixed in with harder woods it burns fine. I like to mix the softer woods in my fires for a better balanced burn anyway. I do that for both wood burner or camp fires.

 

[LD1]

Sycamore burns similar to soft maple and poplar. It splits easy, dries nice, but burns fast. Mixed in with harder woods it burns fine. I like to mix the softer woods in my fires for a better balanced burn anyway. I do that for both wood burner or camp fires.

What kind of maple are you talking about?

The hard/sugar maple we have around here......Now way I'f compare that in the same sentence as poplar.

 

[rswyan]

Checked out the pressure adjustment for the detent ... probably not going to mess with it - max trip pressure is 2000 psi and it is supposedly set at that from the factory.

On the engine speed, I don't have a tach so I really have no way of knowing how fast it is running ... but I have read on some forums that the adjustment screw is for adjustment of the governed speed.

If you run the screw all the way out, you'll get around 4300 rpm ... supposedly, the engine is rated at 3800 rpm stock, per the specifications ... which seems kinda odd, given that most of these type engines are set at 3600 rpm.

Specs on the Barnes pump are 4000 max rpm.

Might play around with the adjustment screw a bit and what if any difference it makes.

 

[aczlan]

On the engine speed, I don't have a tach so I really have no way of knowing how fast it is running ... but I have read on some forums that the adjustment screw is for adjustment of the governed speed.

$16 will get you a tachometer/hourmeter: Amazon.com: KEDSUM Upgrade Version Waterproof Hour meter Tachometer 2 & 4 Stroke Small Engine Spark For Boat Outboard Mercury(Battery Replaceable): Automotive
Aaron Z

 

[rswyan]

Sycamore burns similar to soft maple and poplar. It splits easy, dries nice, but burns fast.

From what I've read, it does burn fast ... which makes sense to me, after looking at the round I split yesterday.

The wood seems to be not very dense and is pretty light after seasoning for a year ... much lighter than seasoned ash. Probably more similar to poplar in that respect.

As far as being easy to split, that's not my experience ... green, it's very difficult to split ... seasoned, it splits easier ... but it still takes a good bit of force. Comparatively speaking, ash and red oak split easier ... and are "stringy" and split along the grain. The sycamore just seems to "let go", parting in an irregular manner ... and not really following the strings of the grain.

Mixed in with harder woods it burns fine. I like to mix the softer woods in my fires for a better balanced burn anyway. I do that for both wood burner or camp fires.

Good to know ... :thumbsup:

I was planning on mixing it with harder woods ... at least in the dead of winter. Might burn it alone when it isn't real cold out (fall/spring) and I don't need much to take the chill out of the shop.

 

[rswyan]

$16 will get you a tachometer/hourmeter: Amazon.com: KEDSUM Upgrade Version Waterproof Hour meter Tachometer 2 & 4 Stroke Small Engine Spark For Boat Outboard Mercury(Battery Replaceable): Automotive
Aaron Z

Aaron,

Thanks much !

It's now on the list.

 

[Ford850]

What kind of maple are you talking about?

The hard/sugar maple we have around here......Now way I'f compare that in the same sentence as poplar.

No, I didn't mean it was similar to hard maple. Soft maple would be red, silver, etc. Even those, from tree to tree, vary quite a bit but are much lighter than hard maple. I put those soft maples in the category with tulip poplar and sycamore. I think sycamore is a maple relative too. Then in the lowest category I'd group cottonwood and basswood.

From what I've read, it does burn fast ... which makes sense to me, after looking at the round I split yesterday.

The wood seems to be not very dense and is pretty light after seasoning for a year ... much lighter than seasoned ash. Probably more similar to poplar in that respect.

As far as being easy to split, that's not my experience ... green, it's very difficult to split ... seasoned, it splits easier ... but it still takes a good bit of force. Comparatively speaking, ash and red oak split easier ... and are "stringy" and split along the grain. The sycamore just seems to "let go", parting in an irregular manner ... and not really following the strings of the grain.


Good to know ... :thumbsup:

I was planning on mixing it with harder woods ... at least in the dead of winter. Might burn it alone when it isn't real cold out (fall/spring) and I don't need much to take the chill out of the shop.

I've split some that was more difficult and twisted, and maybe that's the norm? I only split it if it's down or needs to be taken down, like some of the other softer woods. Just enough to keep a good mix going.

 

[LD1]

No, I didn't mean it was similar to hard maple. Soft maple would be red, silver, etc. Even those, from tree to tree, vary quite a bit but are much lighter than hard maple. I put those soft maples in the category with tulip poplar and sycamore. I think sycamore is a maple relative too. Then in the lowest category I'd group cottonwood and basswood.

MAkes more sense. I have never cut/burned anything other than hard maple in the maple family. Have burned lots of red and white oak, hickory, ash, elm, beech. And hard maple is in with that mix. I also burn alot of pine, willow, poplar, cotton wood, etc. Not that I like spending time cutting the softer woods, but If a tree has gotta go, might as well make some use out of it. Use it for "shop" wood.

 

[/pine]

I burn a lot of both sycamore and tulip poplar outside just to get rid of it...even though some of the logs are 18"-20" I don't split it...just burn it with the pine...There is a noticeable difference between the two depending on how cured they are...
I've always used poplar for kindling as it splits so easily and lights quick if dry...it does burn faster than sycamore if they are close to the same moisture content...

I have a large amount of sycamore logs I've only spared from the fire because I may be buying an interest in a band mill...but am considering splitting a bunch of it strictly for tinder size cord wood...

The very few rounds I have run through a splitter was more like maple...it feels like cheating splitting poplar or (clear) red oak with a splitter...

I know this thread is about a hydraulic splitter but there's something about splitting clear red oak etc. by hand...it is so much less tiresome etc...when the round absorbs all the energy of the blow (no feedback through the handle) and every blow is effective...

This is a great thread...I am getting ready to order hoses and fittings for the splitter/lift I built last year...some may remember the issue I had trying to get a two spool valve to work off a dedicated Ditch Witch auxiliary circuit...the need for wood elapsed and I never really got around to completing the project...will resurrect or start a new thread...it is also my 2.0 version...

 

[LD1]

Yes, red oak is the easiest stuff I have ever split. Splits easier than a pine deck board...trying to run a 3/8 lag screw in it , 1" from the end, and no pre drill.

Only thing I have split that's even in the same league is sassafras . But it's not as good for firewood. It's similar burn characteristics to poplar.

Total opposite end of the spectrum...white/American elm :mur: