Log splitter Problem

[Maytea]

I have a log splitter that I have owned for 15 years.

The cylinder packing went out, which I figured out by testing if fluid was bypassing the packing
Cylinder has since been professional rebuild and confirmed to be a packing issue

Before finding out packing was the cause of the pump pressure not building pressure, I went ahead and bought a new 2 stage haldex pump and a new prince control valve with relieve. Also have all new oil and filter so this is a full system rebuild

Was expecting everything to run perfect when I put back together, but this was not the case.

Without loading the cylinder I am looping fluid at 0 psi. This part is good

When I engage the control valve in either dirrection, pressure immediately jumps up to the relieve pressure of valve. I have a gauge in line before control valve

The flow at this pressure is 1/4 of the pump output so ram barely moves in either dirrection.

The haldex 2 stage pumps have an adjustment to change pressure the the lop pressure side drops out, but I don't think this is issue. If I am building pressure that quickly, is this an issue with breakin of the new cylinder packing?

Looking for suggestions, before I tear down and put old pump back in.

The pump size is same as before just a new brand.

 

[Leejohn]

Make sure the pump pressure line is to the in port of the valve. Before I would change pumps I would change the valve.

 

[oldnslo]

When you shift the valve do either or both hoses to the cylinder get stiff or swell like they are under pressure? If you have the same size hose ends can you just loop the two work ports together and see what happens? This will point towards a valve or cylinder issue.

You would almost need the cylinder weed together to cause the pressure to go over the relief so doubt that the seals are the problem but it is possible something is binding that much.

Not fan of just swapping parts and hoping something works.

 

[Maytea]

Made some progress, but still do not have a working log splitter.

I talked to northern

Everything is plumed right

Took the cylinder out of equation by looping the A and B ports together.

As soon as I move lever in either dirrection it pegs the pressure at the spool valve relief pressure.

This means pump is unloading immediately like there is a restriction somewhere in the A port to B port loop.

To test if pump was ok (unloading correctly), ran the port back into the cylinder.

As the line/cylinder was filling with fluid the pressure stayed below the unloading pressure for about 5 seconds. Then in mid stroke (without any additional restriction) it unloaded and pressure jumped to spool valve relief. and ram slowed down

I will call northern Monday, but I believe this isolates the issue to spool valve.

Without running through A or B port, I have 0 pressure looping through system

As soon as I go to A port (or B) without fluid being looped to B port (or A) I am below the unloading pressure.

As soon as I push fluid out one port then back to the other, I am spiking the pressure immediately above the unloading point to the spool valve relief point.

I also swapped out the two stage pump back to original and confirmed same problem.

Anyone know why a new prince LS3000 spool valve would act this way?

This is a pretty common valve for log splinters.

By way pressure release detent and relief valve are working correctly.

Cylinder will move with 50 psi of air. This test is why the cylinder took time to fill resulting in 5 sec delay to unload.

thanks

 

[SPYDERLK]

A restriction in the return circuit when the spool is not centered?

 

[mrmikey]

Just on an off chance, there's no power beyond plug in the valve is there?..................Mike

 

[Maytea]

Where would be a good place to look for restriction in valve.

I check northern and it looks like the only other option for this valve is a dual detent release.

Mike not sure what you mean by no power beyond plug in valve.

Restriction must be in valve as no restriction between valve and tank in neutral position

 

[CincyFlyer]

Where would be a good place to look for restriction in valve.

I check northern and it looks like the only other option for this valve is a dual detent release.

Mike not sure what you mean by no power beyond plug in valve.

Restriction must be in valve as no restriction between valve and tank in neutral position

A power beyond plug essentially gives you two outputs: one is the pump flow, if you have any other valves downstream (not needed for log splitter) and the other is the cylinder discharge to the tank. In some valves (such as the Prince I'm using for my FEL) the default is a single output, where the pump flow-when the valve is in neutral-and the cylinder discharge to tank-when the valve is moved-are shared. A PB plug splits the cylinder discharge and pump flow into two separate outputs (which is what I have added to my valve).

 

[SPYDERLK]

Where would be a good place to look for restriction in valve.

I check northern and it looks like the only other option for this valve is a dual detent release.

Mike not sure what you mean by no power beyond plug in valve.

Restriction must be in valve as no restriction between valve and tank in neutral position

Can you attach a link to the Prince valve you have?

Is it this one?

Prince Log Splitter Detent Valve | Detent Valves| Northern Tool + Equipment

 

[Dave M7040]

Some pictures of the overall setup and closeups of the various components might help someone spot the problem.

I always have reservations when the advice over the phone is like this:

"I talked to northern

Everything is plumed right."

Usually you don't get their most knowledgeable people on the phone. In the end, there will be something connected wrong!

This is not meant to be sarcastic or critical. How are you certain you have the LS3000 valve? Just because that is what is says on the packaging, customers often take something out of the packaging and don't put it back in the right package. Then you come along and think you are getting the valve as identified on the packaging. Looking at the Prince web site, not Northern's, there are a number of identically looking valves with different features.

Dave M7040

 

[Maytea]

Yes it's he 2020 with 1/2 inch ports

 

[Maytea]

 

[Maytea]

Having trouble getting phone to upload. From outside valve looks right with 1/2 port option and detent release but I have no idea about internals and open spool. Very strange to me is it appear to function when no return flow through valve port

I keep thinking I missed something basic but the layout is rather basic
One hyd loop when in neutral one loop for the working ports. One inlet and one outlet on valve both 3/4 inch on side


Prince Log Splitter Detent Valve | Detent Valves| Northern Tool + Equipment

 

[Dave M7040]

We need some of the pictures of how you have things connected. The schematic from the company is what I want to check what you did against.

The open center valve spool means that, until you touch the valve handle, hydraulic fluid will be sucked from the reservoir, pass through the open center spool and return to the reservoir.

Dave M7040

 

[Maytea]

Just a heads up the drawing above is not my valve

It has the 1/2 in port on side and 3/4 port on top

Here are pics

 

[Maytea]

Gauge side is inlet from pump
Opposite to gauge side is the return flow back to filter then back to tank

Two Hoses on top in line with handle run to cylinder

I think everything matches the drawing

 

[Dave M7040]

Maytea

Thank you for the photos. I will study them closely. Could you plse post pictures of the pump and reservoir.

Although not part of your issues now, the use of galvanized or iron pipe fittings can be very dangerous. They are not designed for the pressures in a hydraulic system. Your local hydraulic supplier can provide a steel fitting for almost any need.

For example, tractor manuals caution owners against putting their hand over what they think might be a tiny leak of hydraulic fluid as the pressure of the tiny jet will be so strong it will force the hydraulic fluid under your skin. That is a very serious injury and if it happens to you get to a hospital immediately!

They suggest holding a piece of paper or cardboard to confirm the presence of a leak however, the natural reaction is to hold your hand out flat over the possible spray.

Dave M7040

 

[Dave M7040]

Maytea

Thank you for the photos. I will study them closely. Could you plse post pictures of the pump and reservoir.

Although not part of your issues now, the use of galvanized or iron pipe fittings can be very dangerous. They are not designed for the pressures in a hydraulic system. Your local hydraulic supplier can provide a steel fitting for almost any need.

For example, tractor manuals caution owners against putting their hand over what they think might be a tiny leak of hydraulic fluid as the pressure of the tiny jet will be so strong it will force the hydraulic fluid under your skin. That is a very serious injury and if it happens to you get to a hospital immediately!

They suggest holding a piece of paper or cardboard to confirm the presence of a leak however, the natural reaction is to hold your hand out flat over the possible spray.

I would like to relate to you a problem with a pressure washer to illustrate a point. I have a commercial electric pressure washer. It runs around 1200 psi so not high by hydraulic standards.
My brother borrowed it and I did not get him instructions. He connected a hose and plugged it in. As soon as he pulled the handle to spray, the pump went into overload and nothing came out the tip. He tried to remove the tip and could not get the quick coupler to release.

Same for all other quick couplers. When I got there an hour later, I too found everything so tight that removal of a coupler was impossible. Finally I started unscrewing a pipe fitting and suddenly there was a release of air. Now the couplers would easily disconnect.

Looking at the inside of the spray tip I could see about a thimble full of fine mud most of which came out when I tapped the tip on the table. I rinsed the tip out and could see daylight thru it.

I started the pressure washer up and ran it for a couple of minutes with no tip to flush out any sediment and rust, put the tip back in and it was good to go.

A tiny blockage can produce big symptoms. I know you said you connected the two cylinder hoses together and the symptoms were the same.

What I am going to suggest is to disconnect the two cylinder hoses and let them discharge into a clean container. Put a rag over the container to contain any spray.

It is possible that the cylinder packing or other bits have logged themselves into a fitting like a perfect plug. If oil does not come out both hoses as you move the valve handle back and then forward, I think you need to be checking for blockages.

Dave M7040

 

[Maytea]

Thank you for response

So if one port does not flow, would you suggest I try to send it back or try to clean. What would be procedure to clean out.


Will get a photo of tank and pump asap

 

[Maytea]