Log splitter on a budget project!

[Josh61513]

I've been looking for a log splitter to use with my tractor, but on a very tight budget (burning wood is supposed to save money right!). I supplement with a wood-burning fireplace insert and consume 9-12 face cords/season (3-4 full cords).

I've been watching craigslist for a log splitter with a bad pump or engine but good cylinder using the hydralics from my tractor. I finally came across one for $50 (see attachments) without a pump or engine nor hydraulic valve which seems like a good price. I plan to bring it home and then connect it directly to my rear aux. hydrualic quick connects (1/2"?) pioneer quick connects, controlled by an a/b valve with detents on the tractor. That will be enough to test the function of the splitter and get started splitting for this year! If it checks out okay I plan to remove the axle and get it setup for hooking to the 3-point and then clean & paint. I like the idea of the new regenerative-type hydralic valve and plan to add that after I determine the splitter to be good.

I need some help ordering the right hydraulic lines, seems like everyone likes surpluscenter.com: which size is appropriate? I have a Kioti CK20S which has "7.66 GPM total flow", not sure how much is available at the aux. outlets. When I add the regen. valve should I use short pieces of larger diameter line to/from the valve due to the increased flow?

Thanks!

Josh

 

[J_J]

Just match the hose size to the port size.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

I would run 1/2" hoses to match your qd's. I hope you are in no hurry. Your 7.66gpm will be your most limiting factor. GPM is rated at the pump. By the time you run through your hoses and valves, you can cut that back. It will work, but it will not be a speed demon.

 

[J_J]

I would run 1/2" hoses to match your qd's. I hope you are in no hurry. Your 7.66gpm will be your most limiting factor. GPM is rated at the pump. By the time you run through your hoses and valves, you can cut that back. It will work, but it will not be a speed demon.

Is that your picture in the avatar.

If the cylinder is a 3 in bore, with 1.5 in shaft, then the extend speed will be

4.2 ips, so a 24 in log would take 5.7 sec

4.2 ips, -----16 in log------------3.8 sec

Retract speed even faster.

Better than most, and a regen valve will make it even faster.

 

[Josh61513]

Thanks for the feedback.

I haven't picked it up yet so i'm not sure of the cylinder size. Even if it's a 4" I suspect the cycle time will be acceptable with a regen. control valve. The reason I ask about the line size is because I'm curious as to how much additional flow I would get with the regen valve? Would that warrant 3/4" lines to/from the valve and 1/2" from the tractor? I suppose the bottleneck would still be the port size on the cylinder eh?

Also, could someone clarify the terms in the valve description "3/4" work posts, 1/2" in & out"? The specs also say for max flow "4 GPM in, 25 out", would that be a problem if I actually have 5-6 GPM at the remotes?

http://www.cylinderservices.net/catalog.asp?prodid=601852

Thanks!

 

[J_J]

The valve does say 4 GPM in. Just reduce engine speed.

The pressure hose, and return from the tractor should be 1/2 in

Although it says the work ports are 3/4 in, the input to the cylinder are probably less.

The smallest port size will be the limiting factor. For instance, if the cylinder port inlet is 3/8 in, then 3/8 hose/adapter would work. If some port are 1/2 in , then adapters are required.

I just noticed this valve is not for use with a two staged pump.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Is that your picture in the avatar.

If the cylinder is a 3 in bore, with 1.5 in shaft, then the extend speed will be

4.2 ips, so a 24 in log would take 5.7 sec

4.2 ips, -----16 in log------------3.8 sec

Retract speed even faster.

Better than most, and a regen valve will make it even faster.

No, not my pic. It's an old friend.

If it's a 2" bore, it will be even faster. If it's a 4" bore, it will be much slower. If it's a 3" bore, the cylinder won't be on there for long anyway.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

The valve does say 4 GPM in. Just reduce engine speed.

The pressure hose, and return from the tractor should be 1/2 in

Although it says the work ports are 3/4 in, the input to the cylinder are probably less.

The smallest port size will be the limiting factor. For instance, if the cylinder port inlet is 3/8 in, then 3/8 hose/adapter would work. If some port are 1/2 in , then adapters are required.

I just noticed this valve is not for use with a two staged pump.

Not true. A hydraulic circuit with a 3/8" port and a 1/2" hose connected to it will flow more than a 3/8" port and a 3/8" hose.

 

[sizzami]

jj is correct

 

[J_J]

My thought were, that the pressure coming out of a 1/2 orifice, would decrease and the fluid would be spread across a larger area, in going through a 3/4 hose. However if the pressure is the same , then I would agree. However, I am not an engineer. How are you going to get any more volume out of pump with a larger hose?

 

[Josh61513]

Of course, reduce the engine speed!

As it turns out I should have the full 7.66 GPM available at the rear remotes, my dealer Michigan Iron says the tractor has just one pump but uses a priority valve for the power steering.

I would imagine that the benefit from larger hose would be reduced friction, particularly over a long run. Very similar to using a heavy guage extension cord to minimize voltage drop, or larger diameter water lines with a long run.

At the ~5' lengths I will be using I'm thinking the effect would be minimal.

I need to pickup the splitter before the next batch of questions arise! Any ideas on how to get any old/nast fluid out of the cylinder? Can I just extend and retract the ram and expect fluid to come out? Maybe even try to draw some clean fluid in through a port while extending it?

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Frictional losses are greater in a smaller hose resulting in a reduction of flow.

 

[J_J]

If you use th regen valve, you are coming out of the valve with 3/4 fitting, and it really doesn't matter whether the hose is 3/8, 1/2. or 3/4, because the distance is small, and cylinder ports are probably 3/8 in. Josh will tell us soon.

 

[Josh61513]

Well I picked up the splitter yesterday. 3 1/4" cylinder, 18" stroke.

I stopped at TSC on the way home to match up port sizes, it has 1/2" in and out. I bought swivel connectors for the cylinder side, 1/2 hose (one 8' one 10'), I already had pioneer 1/2" connectors, and then a set of dust caps. About $70 for those pieces, so I'm ~$120 deep into the project.

Brought it home, flushed some clean fluid into both sides of the cylinder by moving the ram back and forth, and then connected up the new lines. Started the tractor, engaged the valve and waited a few seconds for the fluid to fill. The ram moved! Great I thought, it works!

I retracted the ram completely and fetched a piece of Ash that was already cut & split to size just to make sure it works. The ram moved up to the wood and just stopped moving...Has no power. It can split small pieces of kindling wood but that's it. I had the tractor's hydraulic pressure checked with the 50 hour service that was done a week ago and it checked right at 2,250 psi. With the 3.25" cylinder I figure I should have over 9 tons of force...

Does this mean the internal seals are bad or could I have air in the system somewhere? I topped off the tractor's hydraulic reservoir, it was 1/2-1 gallon low from filling the cylinder and lines but no change. I can hear it go into relief when I retract the cylinder completely but when it stops extending at the wood the sound of the tractor pump changes very little...

I attached some crappy camera phone pictures of the rig.

Your thoughts?

 

[kennyd]

Well I picked up the splitter yesterday. 3 1/4" cylinder, 18" stroke.

I stopped at TSC on the way home to match up port sizes, it has 1/2" in and out. I bought swivel connectors for the cylinder side, 1/2 hose (one 8' one 10'), I already had pioneer 1/2" connectors, and then a set of dust caps. About $70 for those pieces, so I'm ~$120 deep into the project.

Brought it home, flushed some clean fluid into both sides of the cylinder by moving the ram back and forth, and then connected up the new lines. Started the tractor, engaged the valve and waited a few seconds for the fluid to fill. The ram moved! Great I thought, it works!

I retracted the ram completely and fetched a piece of Ash that was already cut & split to size just to make sure it works. The ram moved up to the wood and just stopped moving...Has no power. It can split small pieces of kindling wood but that's it. I had the tractor's hydraulic pressure checked with the 50 hour service that was done a week ago and it checked right at 2,250 psi. With the 3.25" cylinder I figure I should have over 9 tons of force...

Does this mean the internal seals are bad or could I have air in the system somewhere? I topped off the tractor's hydraulic reservoir, it was 1/2-1 gallon low from filling the cylinder and lines but no change. I can hear it go into relief when I retract the cylinder completely but when it stops extending at the wood the sound of the tractor pump changes very little...

I attached some crappy camera phone pictures of the rig.

Your thoughts?

Bummer.
Can you detail exactly how you have it plumbed to the tractor?
What valve did you use?

 

[MichiganIron]

The cylinder may be:

Peninsular Cylinder Company
27650 Groesbeck Hwy.
Roseville, MI 48066

Peninsular Cylinder Co. - hydraulic cylinder, air cylinder, pneumatic cylinder, cylinder repair, cylinder accessories, ford standard cylinders, chysler standard cylinders, pneumatic slides and die lifters, pneumatic clamps, air powered clamps, decell

Click on Ford and Daimler Chrysler Cyclinders

Check out the MMHC 500 Series cylinders and specs. See if they match up to what you have.

 

[J_J]

Did you say you purchased the regen valve? If so, when you split using that valve, do not hold it all the way fwd, back off to the soft stop, and that gives the most power. The purpose of the regen valve is to extend the cylinder quickly, but power is diminished.

You asked about flow in the regen valve. It is almost doubled.

 

[Brad_Blazer]

Does this mean the internal seals are bad or could I have air in the system somewhere? I topped off the tractor's hydraulic reservoir, it was 1/2-1 gallon low from filling the cylinder and lines but no change. I can hear it go into relief when I retract the cylinder completely but when it stops extending at the wood the sound of the tractor pump changes very little...
...snip snip...

So if it's bypassing internally it only happens in the extend direction. Could you be going to a "float" detent on your remote valve? Try reversing the hoses.

McMaster Carr has seals listed by dimension if you can't find the exact kit.

McMaster-Carr

 

[Josh61513]

Thanks for everyones input.

The splitter is plumbed to my rear remote circuit, which is controlled by a dual acting valve with detents in both directions. I wanted to verify the cylinder was good before buying a regen valve (and it looks like it isn't!).

It is made by the Peninsular brand Mich Iron mentioned below. It's a MMHC-505, 3.25" cylinder diameter. I've been working with Bob @ Michigan Iron on how I should proceed, he has been very helpful as always! He got pricing for a rebuild kit and it's obnoxiously priced at more than $140!

I may go the McMaster Carr/custom route, or just replace the cylinder with a 3.5". So much for the budget! Agggh.

 

[kennyd]

You can also look at Hercules Sealing Products if you know what you need...they won't have a "kit" though...