Loader dolly

Bud · Dec 26, 2001

I would appreciate a little help in finding the thread about the dolly for a loader. There was also pictures of the dolly with a loader on it. I don't think it was posted too long ago, but there is no way I can find it.
Thanks Bud

hartsjc · Dec 27, 2001

Could These be the post from WoodStock:

* FEL Dolly Help!

/James

Bud · Dec 27, 2001

hartsic Thanks for posting the thread on the loaders. That is exactly what I was trying to find. Last week I bought a loader for my B2400 and put it on Wednesday & part of Thursday. Now I want to make a dolly so it can be moved to a corner out of the way when it's not in use.
Bud

EdDekker · Dec 28, 2001

Before you build the dolly check how fast the cylinders of your loader bleed down. Some hold position for long periods, others (like mine) leak down rapidly.

When I remove the loader from my 2400 for more than a couple hours I need a hoist to lift it up high enough to get the hood of the tractor under the cross bar. The support feet holding up the cross bar start vertical, as the loader sits without the tractor the crossbar creeps closer to the ground and the support feet creep toward the bucket.

If my loader was on a dolly I am afraid it would fall off as the cylinders leak down unless the dolly was designed to allow this motion.

When I build a dolly I will add brackets to hold the loader in position even with the loader cylinders leaking down. This is not an issue until I build my workshop/barn/storage shed with more concrete floor space. I am now limited to leaving the loader outside when its not on the tractor.

My alternative to using the chain hoist to lift the loader up to get it on is to use the loader hydraulics. The hoses are short so I position the tractor next to the loader facing backwards and hook up the hydraulics just long enough to lift the loader attach brackets with the hydraulics, disconnect the hydraulics. After I have done this I can turn the tractor around, than drive the tractor under the cross bar and finish mounting the loader.

I have been tempted to have a set of extension hydraulic hoses made up so I can park the loader away from the hoist where I don't have room to maneuver the tractor around the loader.

One additional warning. When you are reattaching the loader for the first time you will use the loader hydraulics to position the fixed pin in the half socket on each side and then line up the sockets for the removable pin. Don't allow yourself to focus only on the pins and sockets. Watch where the cross bar is at all times until you have installed the pins. My hood developed an ugly dent from the crossbar the first time I reinstalled the loader.

Bud · Dec 29, 2001

Ed, Glad you mentioned the valves leaking on the loader. Being I just got the loader last week I sure know anything about it. I never had it out of the garage to try it out. I was going to put it on a dolly and push it in a corner out of the way. Guess I better take it off and put it on a couple of times to find out what's going on, and leave it set for a while when it's off to check for leak-down.
Is it the cylinders on the bucket that leak? The fluid must leak by the leather in the cylinder if it dosen't leak from the quick connect.
Do you have the flat bars that drop from the front of the loader arms for the support?
Bud

Bird · Dec 29, 2001

Ed, wouldn't a better solution be to just fix the leak so it doesn't leak down like that?

ddl · Dec 29, 2001

Bud
If you have not had it out of the garage yet, bet if you put it on the tractor and use it, you will not want to take it off the tractor, for everytime you need the loader, you don't have the loader on. I wonder how many people just leave their loaders on all the time, I do for one.

Dan L

Bird · Dec 29, 2001

Dan, I use the loader quite a lot, but probably leave it off and out of the way half the time or more. I don't want it in the way when I'm mowing, plowing, or tilling.

EdDekker · Dec 29, 2001

Bird,
This is my first tractor and I am still learning.

When the tractor was new I asked the dealer. The tractor dealer said it was normal for the cylinders to not hold position with the engine off either on or off the tractor. When I found TractorByNet I found disscussions of leak down and that it was common for the bucket position for a loader to creep down with the engine off. Messages here indicated that there is an element of luck, some leak down quickly some hold position for long periods. This seamed to confirm what the dealer had said, so I never thought to ask here about the leakdown when the loader is off the tractor.

There is no fluid loss during this leak down, it is internal to the cylinders.

Is this not within the bounds of normal for the loader?

Bird · Dec 29, 2001

Ed, I know there are rates of fall of the front end loader that are considered "within specs", but I don't remember the numbers (I think someone posted them on the forum, but don't know whether I could find them or not). However, when you said the problem occurred if you left it off for more than a couple of hours; that definitely seems excessive to me. And if you're not losing any hydraulic fluid, then it seems obvious that it's the seals in the cylinders. I have not measured mine, but leaving the loader off for a couple of months wouldn't be any problem.

In other words, I may have spoken too soon; maybe yours is within specs, but I sure doubt it. If it were me, I'd have to try putting new seals in the cylinders.

EdDekker · Dec 29, 2001

Yes its the cylinders leaking internally. There is no loss of hydraulic fluid. I assume it is leaking past the piston within the cylinder. On the tractor the leak down could be caused by either the valve or the cylinders. When disconnected it has to be the cylinders or the check valves in the hydraulic hoses. If it was the check valves, I would expect to see puddles of hydraulic fluid. With no puddles I am left with the cylinders.

The leak down occurs in both my bucket curl cylinders and my bucket lift cylinders.

The loader has hinged flat bars and feet which drop down from the crossbar in the rear. An attached photo shows the support foot in the stowed position.

It does not have the bars which connect close to the bucket to support the loader.

Bird · Dec 29, 2001

OK, Ed, I was looking at your picture and the ones in my service manual. Now it does make me wonder whether the seals are bad in all 4 cylinders. Now I'll admit I've never changed the seals (never needed to), but from looking at the service manual, sure doesn't look like any big deal. Of course you'd have to be very careful to keep everything clean, and of course visually inspect the cylinder tube for signs of scoring or damage. If the whole thing cylinder had to be replaced, I'd bet that would get expensive.

TonyC · Jan 1, 2002

For the record, I've owned my tractor for only six months but it is a 1997 Model L3600. I could leave my loader up in the air all night and it will stay there. It takes days for it to slip down.

Don_Curley · Jan 1, 2002

Re: FEL Bleed-Down Rates

The FEL on my 2001 B2910 (with about 130 hours on it), has about the same bleed-down rate that Ed mentions with his (and I have no active leaks per se). I also remember the threads on this subject, and I am not convinced that Ed's seals are bad or need replacement. From listening to the feedback in this forum on this subject, as well as talking with the service department manager at my dealer, and a number of "professional" folks who have commercial-sized and equipped backhoe/loaders (and similar equipment), it seems like the prevailing opinion is that there can be quite a lot of variability relating to hydraulic system bleed-down rates for FEL's or otherwise ... especially when considering the relatively low-cost equipment we are running (i.e., without the benefit of cost-prohibitive cylinders, valves, and seals that resist or prevent bleed-down altogether).

Although I am no tractor nor hydraulic system expert, I have come to the conclusion that a 2 hour to overnight FEL bleed-down rate is not technically "out-of-spec", and those of you that can leave their FEL up for days and weeks without noticeable bleed-down are "lucky" and represent the exception rather than the rule. (And at the very least, this opinion makes me feel a little better about my FEL and its expeditious bleed-down habits). /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif

Don /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Bird · Jan 1, 2002

Re: FEL Bleed-Down Rates

I sure couldn't argue with you, Don, because I don't remember the numbers the dealer and factory rep gave me, and don't know where to find the numbers someone (John Miller?) posted on the forum in the past.

BruceW · Jan 3, 2002

Re: FEL Bleed-Down Rates

What is the difference between dismounting the loader on the concrete floor and having it bleed down so that it is difficult to reinstall or dismounting it onto a dolly and having it bleed down so it is hard to install? As long as the FEL cannot contact the floor while it is on the dolly I do not see why one condition is any worse then the other.

bruce