Mowing linked pedal question

[PA hayseed]

I think the momentary "safe mode" feature is to protect the tractor, not us.

Some of the functions that were controlled mechanically on older tractors are now "fly by wire" on the more heavily computer-controlled machines. So, for example, when you switch between the forward and reverse pedals, there will be a slight delay in response. It's quite slight but noticeable if you're used to a mechanical linkage, as I was, especially doing quick loader work. On your NX, there is a knob on the panel to the right of your seat to adjust the speed of HST pedal response. But even dialed to the fastest setting, there will be a slight delay.

As for disabling the "safe mode" delay when you hit both forward and reverse simultaneously, I'm certain that's not an option. You're right, with heavy boots in the winter, it's easier to misjudge and hit both pedals at once when you're hurrying or tired. But since I became aware of that 2-1/2 yrs ago, it hasn't happened to me again.

This is what was explained to me today by the dealership. Apparently, this "feature" was not on my old DK, which explains why my mechanical pedals were so much more responsive. Can't say as I had any problems in the 1000 hours with it. The dealer called this thing a name, something pedonometer or whatever. Anyway, they said there is no way for me to bypass it and keep the warranty. The service guy didn't think it could be bypassed. I am sure once it is out of warranty a solution will come up, as there are plenty of people who write code for a living and others who do autmomechanics for a living.

This really is a large drawback to owning this machine for me. When I am doing loader work I am hammering those pedals back and forth loading and dumping.

 

[PA hayseed]

on a side note, my zero turn goes forward and backwards rapidly with no issues. My last tractor did the same. Maybe it has something to do with their gears/transmissions and warranty work.

 

[CMV]

How is your HST response set? Dial in the lower center of all the pushbuttons under the plastic cover to your right. To the left is slow, to the right is fast. Will control the responsiveness of the pedal inputs - how fast they feel like they're reacting to your foot. Also how smoothly you start or how it grabs to stop when you let off pedal. Set at center or to left on dial kind of sounds like the behavior you're talking about with pedal feel?

For the jerky feeling with HST pedal not "floored" this is what I got from dealer when I described problem (as poorly as I did above). Seems they knew immediately what the issue was....

"I called Kioti after I got your email. If it continues to do it I need to check the pedal calibration and a few other things, if those are good I need to preform a program update

They did a program update and made some changes to the TCU around your serial number. Tech support thinks that yours may have not gotten the update at the factory and needs the update done on the TCU. Your description fits what they have seen on a few units that slipped past the update at the factory."

Maybe that info will be helpful to your dealer.

 

[DieselBound]

Go to the dealer and drive one of their new machines to see if there's any difference.

 

[PA hayseed]

Go to the dealer and drive one of their new machines to see if there's any difference.

One of my problems I had while looking for a new tractor was that no one I went to had any in stock, Kubota or Kioti. When I did order mine, it still took like about a month or so to get it in. I did see some mihindras and a yanmar on a lot, but only one yanmar in my size and the mahindra was open station. Tractor business must be booming in my area. I called around to dealers an hour + away and they all were like we don't have any on the lot. I don't know if they didn't order a lot to reduce on site inventory and cost, and then got caught with their pants down, or if they are selling them like hotcakes.

 

[NPurdy1112]

CMV: I know this is somewhat of an old thread, but I have had a similar issue and came across your posts. Did you end up having the dealer fix the issue? Was it resolved completely as far as you can tell? Did the tractor have to be taken to the dealer? Reasons I ask, I purchased my tractor 2 states away, still brand new off the lot. There is a dealer about 45 minutes away that I could use for service.

 

[NPurdy1112]

CMV: I just read another post from someone else on the "no stall" switch may be part of the issue. I am 99% sure I had that on when I have noticed the issue. Going to test that out as a culprit next chance I get.

 

[CMV]

I have not. Waiting until when I can have 0 tractor projects and 0 potential tractor projects for dealer to pick it up. Just in case it turns out needing a while to sort out, parts have to be ordered, whatever, I wanted to wait and not have to put mowing or other projects on hold in case it takes more than a few days. He said it won't hurt anything to run this way, just annoying when it happens. So as long as I'm not doing any harm, just leaving it be for now rather than not have machine if I want it for something.

 

[DieselBound]

Yeah, as long as you've made your dealer aware of the issue it's basically been documented (why I like to correspond via e-mail as it gives me a trail).

I recently went through this with my rear axle leak. They told me to just bring in the tractor when I could: at the time I had to use it to complete the construction of my woodshed. Dealer had my tractor for 5 weeks. I am fortunate in that most of my projects were completed, AND that I have my Kubota.

 

[CMV]

Also, depending on what you're doing, probably isn't "no stall". I only say that because when no-stall takes over, you feel it and it's the opposite of a "jerky surge" feeling. Kinda like the machine goes limp for a second, all the inputs are numb, then it recovers. The only way I can get it to do it is pushing into a big dirt/gravel pile from the bottom at lower rpm using linked pedal at same time. Although I never tried it bush hogging, just from times I did get into tall/thick/wet enough grass to slow the bush hog/tractor down a little it was nowhere near as much of a bog down as pushing into a pile that would make no-stall react. But the two behaviors - intermittent jerky feeling with HST pedal almost all the way down vs no-stall intervening - feel pretty different from the seat.

 

[oosik]

You know - I read thru this entire thread and its about time somebody says something - I guess its going to be me. It about time that PA hayseed sits down and reads his Op manual - cover to cover. Or rereads it. The Op manual will explain - in great detail - those things that are still a mystery.

Why would you want multiple opinions on a subject when the Op manual will give you the straight skinny.

 

[Threepoint]

You know - I read thru this entire thread and its about time somebody says something - I guess its going to be me. It about time that PA hayseed sits down and reads his Op manual - cover to cover. Or rereads it. The Op manual will explain - in great detail - those things that are still a mystery.

Why would you want multiple opinions on a subject when the Op manual will give you the straight skinny.

Hey Oosik, now don't spoil the fun for the rest of us! How else are we going to feel helpful if we can't give multiple opinions! :confused3:

In fairness to the OP, the Kioti manuals don't cover some of these issues. Example is the situation where both forward and reverse pedals are pressed at the same time. And for issues it does cover, the clarity is sometimes opaque. Part of that is in the translation, especially in explaining technical points.

 

[oosik]

OK - three point - I'll give you that some points are not covered. However - lets not fool the Op - sometimes the best intentions of an explanation, here on TBN, are a bit hazy like his manual. He had better read and learn to "interpret" what his manual says. It may also help interpret some of the explanations here on TBN - ha, ha, ha

 

[PA hayseed]

You know - I read thru this entire thread and its about time somebody says something - I guess its going to be me. It about time that PA hayseed sits down and reads his Op manual - cover to cover. Or rereads it. The Op manual will explain - in great detail - those things that are still a mystery.

Why would you want multiple opinions on a subject when the Op manual will give you the straight skinny.

Well, I haven't responded yet, because I haven't field tested the tractor since it came back from repairs. CMV had the correct diagnosis of my issue, it was factory programming. My dealer had to call kioti, get parts and equipment, that took a month. Then after they got my tractor there they had problems and needed tech assistance to get the tractor to take the new program. Apparently more people are having this issue than me. This issue would not have been diagnosed by the "owners manual". Thanks for your input, and if you noticed, I have been on here on and off since 2007. This isn't my first Kioti, and there is a big difference between my last tractor and this one. A lot of the people I used to talk to on here aren't on here anymore.

 

[CMV]

Oosik....maybe if we had Grand L's instead of NX's, RTFM might help a lot? No idea, but would suspect for the same "gadgetry" on both, Kubota probably has much more detailed documentation. While I really like my Kioti and a positive opinion of the brand overall, their documentation is severely lacking. I suspect if I went to WalMart and bought a random toaster or blender I would have a much more thorough, comprehensive, and clear owner's manual

For tractor behavior issues that could be related to no-stall - this is ALL the manual has on it. If dealer didn't do a good job of initial walkthrough explaining each gadget, what it does, or when to/not to use it, kind of hard to figure out just with the manual. Looking through "troubleshooting" section of manual, there is not one "symptom" that calls for any of the "gadgetry" to be looked as a potential cause.




That is the entirety of what the operator manual tells you about no-stall.

In addition to the standard controls you'd expect to find on any modern machine, on the NX you have a bank of rocker switches on the right side to enable various features. I think a Grand L does it through a dashboard menu interface, but both have roughly all the same "extra stuff". Cruise PTO, Cruise PTO +/-, Cruise Control, Linked Pedal, No-stall, Speed Limit, Calibration, Turning Speed, DPF Regen, Auto PTO, & HST response setting. And each of these has the same or worse description as the no-stall example pictured.

A great example is auto PTO - you raise the 3 pt high enough it automatically turns off the PTO. But the PTO knob is still engaged. So you raise the 3pt and sort of forget all about it while doing other things, then shut down the tractor when you're done. Try to start it next day and it seems "dead". So you cuss a little while fiddling with range selector, reapplying parking brake, readjusting your butt in the seat......then finally think to check PTO after a while. Machine is doing what it's supposed to, but nothing in manual tells you this in area that briefly describes auto PTO. Its about the last thing to check in troubleshooting for "engine hard to start". Just a little blurb in the auto PTO section reminding you to manually turn off PTO switch would prevent a lot of us from feeling like idiots because we forgot auto PTO turned it off for us last time we used machine.

The NX is a nice machine with a lot of nice features, but there are just very poor descriptions and instructions surrounding those features. Manual literally dedicates more space to detailing how to operate the heat & AC in a cab model than all the NX-specific "gadgetry" combined. Combine a dealer who may or may not do a real good walkthrough about each one of those features with a new owner excited to play with his new toy and not paying the best attention since 99% of it is stuff you already know (4wd, loader joystick, check the oil, clean the radiator screen, tire pressure, diff lock.....) and you're left with a lot of owners not fully understanding what all those extra buttons do or how to use the options appropriately.

Kioti really needs better documentation, better website, an official youtube presence.....something....

 

[PA hayseed]

UPDATE - software updated

Since my tractor came back from the shop it runs better (HST pedal response). After doing some loader work, my hst pedals are much more responsive, and there is no delay anymore. It runs more like my mechanical HST pedals used to. With the field still being too wet, I have yet to put anything on the PTO to test out the "surging" but the dealer says everything is now calibrated for the update.

Thanks again CMV for the info on the software fix.

 

[Overtaxed]

UPDATE - software updated

Since my tractor came back from the shop it runs better (HST pedal response). After doing some loader work, my hst pedals are much more responsive, and there is no delay anymore. It runs more like my mechanical HST pedals used to. With the field still being too wet, I have yet to put anything on the PTO to test out the "surging" but the dealer says everything is now calibrated for the update.

Thanks again CMV for the info on the software fix.

Just out of curiosity, when you first start your tractor and raise the 3pt or loader arms (in the first 5 mins or so, if it's cold out) are they real jerky? I only ask because I just got my tractor back from the shop, and was having the PTO/linked pedal issue like you were (which was nearly 100% solved by figuring out that "No Stall" isn't so good to have on when the PTO is engaged), but my overall problem is a bit more serious, looks like the hydro pump has a problem and will need to be replaced. Does your hydro oil look foamy at all after your run it? Just wondering if you might have the larger issue I do too.

 

[PA hayseed]

Just out of curiosity, when you first start your tractor and raise the 3pt or loader arms (in the first 5 mins or so, if it's cold out) are they real jerky? I only ask because I just got my tractor back from the shop, and was having the PTO/linked pedal issue like you were (which was nearly 100% solved by figuring out that "No Stall" isn't so good to have on when the PTO is engaged), but my overall problem is a bit more serious, looks like the hydro pump has a problem and will need to be replaced. Does your hydro oil look foamy at all after your run it? Just wondering if you might have the larger issue I do too.

Sorry, my bucket raised smoothly. I normally start my tractor and let it run for a minute or two before I start moving the bucket. I have never seen my hydro foamy, but then again I don't normally look at it until it is time for a fluid change or things are running incorrectly and I am attempting to diagnose the issue.

 

[CMV]

Mine move fine, but I let it warm up a bit before doing anything. About a minute @ 1500 rpm. I think I read in manual to wait for temp gauge to start moving, but I don't sit there idling that long.....

I only check the fluid before starting for the day and has never been bubbly/foamy, but suspect it wouldn't be cold?