lets talk water towers

[forgeblast]

Region 6 Lookout Tower Drawings
Just found a nice link for lookout towers, it could help if you are planning on making a water tower.

 

[zzvyb6]

This part of what they used to call a 'Hoosier water supply'. Flint & Walling company made the parts: windmill, tank, pump, valves and pressure regulator. Basically the windmill drove a demand regulated (tank level) filling pump to supply gravity pressurized water to a multistory house or commercial building.

Here's the Frank Lloyd Wright version from Spring Valley Wisconsin.

 

[jetboat]

I finally made it thru the post... wow, thats allot of good info. So after talking with neighbors who use water storage, well drillers, father in-law (plumber), my dad (lived on the site when I was a kid) and the info here... I think I have figured out how I want to go.

500 gallon fresh water tank (Black so light cant get thru and designed for the application)
short stand (basically to give a solid level base) essentially a short deck with 6x6 framing and concrete piers. Cheaper than a concrete pad with footings.
Shed around the tank with a metal roof. Shed will have approx 1' of free space around tank. Shed will be round for asstetics and use carsiding (on verticle) for the sides. Basically it should look like an old railroad tank.

Ill use a small pump with a float to fill/top off the tank and a shallow well pump (already have) with my existing pressure tank etc to run from the tank to the house. Even in the worst of summer we still have water, just not enough.

the cabin is in a valley so I could place the tank above the level but, that would require about 200' of hose (each way) and trenching and I just dont see the need. Power is normally available and I am working on an "end of the world" power solution in addition to my generator.

Ive started looking at different water sanitation solutions. Right now Im leaning toward an Ozone sterilazation system. They claim you can keep water drinkable for years like that.

I also considered an inground tank but between the expense of a backhoe and the maint issues, I decided a drainable above ground is the way to go.


on a slightly side project, you guys have me wanting to build an observation tower!

 

[forgeblast]

If you have power you may want to go with a uv steralization lamp on your water line, we have one.

 

[vtsnowedin]

I finally made it thru the post... wow, thats allot of good info. So after talking with neighbors who use water storage, well drillers, father in-law (plumber), my dad (lived on the site when I was a kid) and the info here... I think I have figured out how I want to go.

500 gallon fresh water tank (Black so light cant get thru and designed for the application)
short stand (basically to give a solid level base) essentially a short deck with 6x6 framing and concrete piers. Cheaper than a concrete pad with footings.
Shed around the tank with a metal roof. Shed will have approx 1' of free space around tank. Shed will be round for asstetics and use carsiding (on verticle) for the sides. Basically it should look like an old railroad tank.

Ill use a small pump with a float to fill/top off the tank and a shallow well pump (already have) with my existing pressure tank etc to run from the tank to the house. Even in the worst of summer we still have water, just not enough.

the cabin is in a valley so I could place the tank above the level but, that would require about 200' of hose (each way) and trenching and I just dont see the need. Power is normally available and I am working on an "end of the world" power solution in addition to my generator.

Ive started looking at different water sanitation solutions. Right now Im leaning toward an Ozone sterilazation system. They claim you can keep water drinkable for years like that.

I also considered an inground tank but between the expense of a backhoe and the maint issues, I decided a drainable above ground is the way to go.


on a slightly side project, you guys have me wanting to build an observation tower!

You only need one pipe between the pump and the tank as was mentioned in a post above. Plumb it into the bottom of the tank.

 

[jetboat]

if you are doing gravity feed back to the house you only need 1 line. To have an active fill and a suction line you need 2 lines. 30' of drop isnt feeible for me so I have to pump.

 

[txdon]

I also need an elevated water storage tank. I collect the rain water off the roof and it goes to a 650 gallon in-ground tank. From there I want to have a solar pump to pump the water to an elevated tank to double the storage and pressure.

My tank storage water need is only for irrigation.

I really like the look of the metal tanks:
http://www.texasmetalcisterns.net/

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread to see what you do.
Below is a link that looks like something that will work for both our needs.
How To Build A Double Duty Water Tower

 

[Canada_CT230]

To keep the water in the tank from growing things you can always treat with swimming pool chlorine. In a constant low dose it is safe and kills everything. You can get a float dispenser with chlorine pucks. Set it on the lowest setting and place in the tank. You would probably get a few weeks out of it before needing a puck refill.

Mine lasts a week in my hot tub and the hot water really drives up the chlorine consumption.

I use the same chlorine to clean/sterilize my RV water tanks.

I would go with a tank and pump. Forget the tower idea.

I use a caged 300 gallon tank to water my trees around the farm. I got the tank for $25 from a local potato processing plant (they make french fries and need an anti-foaming agent on the water conveyor belts). The chemical was food grade so I wouldn't have any concerns of using it for drinking water.

 

[Duffster]

This part of what they used to call a 'Hoosier water supply'. Flint & Walling company made the parts: windmill, tank, pump, valves and pressure regulator. Basically the windmill drove a demand regulated (tank level) filling pump to supply gravity pressurized water to a multistory house or commercial building.

Here's the Frank Lloyd Wright version from Spring Green Wisconsin.

..................

 

[jetboat]

for a tank, I think Ill be going with this one. 500g Black tank for fresh water. 48" wide x 73" tall
N-43101 | 500 Gallon Water Tank

I just spoke with them and they have an outlet close to my house so I can pick it up in person and save about $120 in shipping.

 

[vtsnowedin]

To keep the water in the tank from growing things you can always treat with swimming pool chlorine. In a constant low dose it is safe and kills everything. You can get a float dispenser with chlorine pucks. Set it on the lowest setting and place in the tank. You would probably get a few weeks out of it before needing a puck refill.

Mine lasts a week in my hot tub and the hot water really drives up the chlorine consumption.

I use the same chlorine to clean/sterilize my RV water tanks.

I would go with a tank and pump. Forget the tower idea.

I use a caged 300 gallon tank to water my trees around the farm. I got the tank for $25 from a local potato processing plant (they make french fries and need an anti-foaming agent on the water conveyor belts). The chemical was food grade so I wouldn't have any concerns of using it for drinking water.

A water tank doesn't have children swimming in it with all the grass clippings and dirt they bring in on their feet or perspiration and p##. A lot less chlorine would be needed if any.

 

[pat32rf]

In this area, before rural water, the Amish used to stand railroad tank cars on end (w/trucks removed) for water towers! ~~ grnspot

Makes the idea of a "barn raising" seem simple....

 

[Canada_CT230]

A water tank doesn't have children swimming in it with all the grass clippings and dirt they bring in on their feet or perspiration and p##. A lot less chlorine would be needed if any.

Yup, I use a small small amount. About 1 tsp for 30 gallons in my RV holding tank.

 

[sparc]

Yes, if you do not need a gravity feed system, there is less cost, less
maintenance and less liability by just having another cistern tank available
to fill during the spring or fall. Since you are not there during the week,
something could easily happen to the tower tank full of water whether
diliberately or not, just causing another project when you planned on
relaxing all weekend.

Might seem paranoid but not being there all week i would feel better with the water protected inside the building where critters or others can't get to it.

 

[MBTRAC]

JetBoat - Sounds good, looks like you've just about got it all sorted. With all the effort you're going to & expense of concealing the tank, it sounds like the cabin is for the long term, as such 500gal still sounds real small to me so suggest maybe you check your usuage calc's maybe go for a min.1000gal as it won't work out that much more expensive & you're going to a lot of trouble. Also whatever tank you end up with, suggest you plumb an overflow pipe well away from your stand/shed installation as any seepage in your absence/over to time could compromise the stand/structure/similar concern if you're not intending to install gutter/downpipes on the tank shed.

Txdon - Interesting you're considering a metal tank, you don't see them much over here any more (except a few in some metro areas as "country features" in gardens) as poly superceded them many years ago. If you have strongly mineralised &/or high salt soil (an indication if you're unsure is black steel star posts rusting quickly or gal wire/fence posts oxidizing quickly) I'd be real cautious of installing a metal tank(gal or s/steel ) as even from roof water you will accumulate corrosive sediment in the tank which may play havoc with the seams. The other thing is any scratch on the base will be first thing to corrode over time.
Also, I would only be looking at solar if there are no other options for a small irrigation set up like yours.

Water Sanitation Solutions ? The inline Ozone Sterilisers work pretty good, but I have only used for bore water combined with charcoal micro fiters &/or Zelbrite type sand filter. Don't know what your ground water is like over there, but as our tanks are all rain water we have never had any need to sterilise or treat, it's pure with no additives (though as a precaution we test all tanks every 6months to make sure there's no bacteria/contaminants).
Chlorine, Iodine & all the chemical muck is pretty much a waste of time as it won't kill/remove the stuff that can really hurt you like E.coli, Giardia, Cryptosporidium, Campylobacter which need some pretty trick filters to remove (I've installed only one of these ever on one of our farmhouses, only because the farmhands kid has a low immunity condition).
If you want clean drinking water with as low risk as practical , two basic rules:-
a) make certain your water is not subject to any contamination by Bird, Bat, Rat, Mouse, Frog & especially Snail faeces.
b) & without fail install a "Waterboy" type suction hose float inside the tank for your pump or gravity fed to draw from, basically this is a floating suction line inside the tank ( Waterboy is a brand name which your tank supplier may know), allows your water to always be sourced from the cleanest source from the top of the water level in the tank The WaterBoy - Tank Water

Canada-CT230 - The c.300gal caged pallecons are great for farm use & I use them too all the time, but there's no way I'd be using them for drinking water. There's a reason there cheap second hand, they've outlived their commercial life as "food grade" & the plastic isn't UV stabilsed (that's why they go brittle after few years in the sun) & it breaks down/bleeds impurities, contaminants & toxins into the water, including BPA's NRDC: Plastic Water Bottles -- Is "BPA-free" the Same as Safe?

 

[txdon]

I'm considering metal because of the algae in my dark green poly tank, it seem light still gets through. More importantly, I just like the way the metal tank looks and the tank will be in a very visible place. I have used a solar pump for garden applications and have a pump and solar panel that work good together.

 

[forgeblast]

can you get a metal shell? and still use a poly tank? I like the look of the metal.

 

[MBTRAC]

Txdon -If there's algae in your poly tank, it's probably due to 2 factors, remove 1 or preferably both & you're cured it:-
a) Light, rather than coming thru your tank, a small amount of light is probably entering thru gaps on a manhole cover or perhaps via your inlet gutter down pipe (paint it black or a dark colour 2-3' before it enters the tank), prompting algae in smaller tank(less than c.500gal) in constistently higher ambient tempartures.
b) Water Quality- more likely the roof water you're capturing is very high in nutrients such as nitrogen &/or phosphates ( could be air polution, could be neighbours fertilzing their lawn..etc settling on your roof), easiest solution is to install/build a first flush diverter to stop contaminents Superhead Rainwater Filter and First Flush Diverter

To clean/kill the algae already in a poly tank only (do not use on other tanks), clean with:-
a) Not suitable for Human or Sheep drinking water - Add Copper Sulphate
To do this, mix thoroughly 1 ounce of copper sulphate in 1 pint of water in a container, then gradually add 7.5 tablespoons/c.4onces of the prepared solution to each 1,000 gallons of water & mix/agitate as thoroughly as possble (use you pump to recirculate) Leave this mix in the tank for a week, whilst this water can be used for crop spraying, irrigation and livestock watering, excluding sheep - personally I've always then flushed the tank out with clean water.
b) Drinking Water
From the various cleaners available, in a small poly tank, the easiest way is to use a non-scented food grade bleach (you'll find lots of laundry bleaches in the supermarket are actally labelled as food grade) mix into a very weak c.0.5% solution to get rid of the algae.
No other product should be used unless it is approved food grade, powdered/liquid swimming pool chlorine is not food grade & can contain very unhealthy trace elements/impurities
c) Irrigation Only
Take a sample to your pool shop, they'll most likely recommend a heap of stuff, you'll only need the chlorine in their recommended dosage which is fine for irrigation use only.

Agreed, the metal tanks look much better & have that "rustic" appeal, just not practical now in commercial farming.
Great if your solar pump works out, usually the inexpensive ones are challenged in high head applications c. 30'+ because of the pump loading/current draw.

 

[txdon]

can you get a metal shell? and still use a poly tank? I like the look of the metal.

Now that's something I will look into. Thanks.

MBTRAC, Thanks for all the good information. I do have a first water down tube but it is manually opened to clean. I can let it drip and open the gate valve completely if it becomes clogged. Thanks for the link and the information on copper sulfate.

If you use chlorine or copper sulfate in the water to treat the algae and then use it to water a vegetable garden will the vegetables still be organic?

 

[tommu56]

I have thought about a silo with a plastic liner or tank in the top
I drive by an old barn with a concrete panel and tie rod silo on the way to work and just dream of how to get down and it to my off grid cabin 200 miles away.
Presently I use a 1250 gallon in ground cistern with a rv pump pulling from it and a 450 ft well with a low yield with pump and inverter pumping 2X a day till flow stops.
We collect rain water for the toilet flushing and I use some pool tablets in it to keep it clear.

tom