Length of chain

[Billc]

MarkC,

Have followed your posts for the past year about chain quality. Before I had always bought chain at Home Depot. Now when we're at the local hardware store and my wife says, "Honey, we need some more logging chain." I say, "What, that crap? Are you kidding?" There is usually someone looking at chain when I say that. I feel very proud as I walk away. The fella looking at chain looks at me, looks at the chain, looks at me, looks at the chain... Anyway, you've said there are different grades of chain. What are the different grades or is there a web sight that explains the different grades? The other day one of those guys in the chain aisle asked me, "What's the difference in chain quality?" I looked at him, looked at the chain, looked at him, looked at the chain.....

One other question. When I'm towing my tractor I use chains to hold the tractor to the flat bed. I'm not sure what they are called, I've always called them chain tighteners, have also heard them called "bull dogs", anyway the bull dogs are used to take the slack out of the chain to hold the tractor tight to the flat bed. It has a chain hook on either end, you hook to the chain, pull the handle on the bull dog 180 degrees, and it draws the chain tight (sorry, that's the best discription I can give). Anyway, I'm going to replace them very soon because if I'm going down a bumpy road the handle holding the tention pops back 180 degrees. All of a sudden I have lots of slack in the chain holding the tractor to the flat bed. Not good! To solve this problem I normally use a small piece of wire to hold the handle in place. It does the trick, but I've seen bull dogs that use a ratchet system for tightening. Looks like it works a whole lot better. Does it, or am I better off using what I have?

Thanks for the info, as always, Mark.

Bill Cook

 

[stevepio]

Bill C - That's why I use rachet straps to tie stuff down. Each of my straps is rated at 6000 lbs working and 10,000 breaking, and I use 4 straps. They don't come loose.

 

[keitho]

Here's a reminder not to do something stupid that I did this weekend! I was working with a chain and had it sitting in the FEL bucket - I forgot about it and went mowing and when I stopped a few hours later there was no chain to be seen! I guess I hit a bump, one end fell out and the whole thing snaked out. I'm sure it's lying quietly somewhere under the grass in the pasture. Now maybe I should get one of those super big magnets and hang it from the loader and drive around - or maybe now I'll be able justify a nice new chain /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif - it was an old chain anyway.

Keith

 

[Richard]

Interesting how much can be said from 4:00pm eastern to 9 am.

Harv,
ITCHING in my pants to scream my REAL thoughts, but again, the wisdom of others here influence me to calm down and rather than "tell you what to do" maybe state what I would do.

Chunk them. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

In another life, worked roughly 10 years retail. A surprising amount of the stuff started to come in made in China. As it (over the years) came in the back door and out the front door, I started to notice a larger volume of returns/defective items (primarily of the Chinese/Taiwan make rather than Japan)

In the watch catagory, if you were sizing a Seiko (hate to pick on them, but this is true story) the Seiko watches (over the other brands) REALLY snapped apart and back together with authority. VERY well made. Fast forward several years and I started to find certain bands were ABSOLUTE pain in @## to size. What once took 5 minutes, could now take literally an hour FOR A SILLY BAND. Being slow to notice trends, I finally saw the correlation. Virtually EVERY band that was a pain, was made in China. All the "easy, snappy" ones, were made in Japan. Proved to me, there is some engineering difference, materials difference, and or other. In the end, the customer sees a pretty watch that of course (since "I" sized it /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif), fits beautifully. I on the other hand, see something that is far inferior to the "origional" made to less standards and of lesser (softer) materials.

Does this translate to chains/hooks/cars/women/other???

I don't know and I don't consider myself racist or other. That said, it's going to be a COLD day somewhere, before I own ANYTHING made in China if I have a choice about it. I would much rather pay the higher price and in fact get, or perceive to get higher quality.

Something the above 10 years taught me was, as a society, we Americans want the look but aren't always willing to pay the price for the "real" item.

Rhetorical question:

How many times have you bought something cheap and regreted it? (and it therefore cost you MORE than buying "right" in the beginning)

How many times have you regreted buying quality?

I understand there are exceptions to all the above, just relating some of my experiences.

/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[dullpain]

BillC - What you call "chain tightners" or "bull dogs" are commonly referred to as "Load Binders" in all the catalogs I have. Of course here in the South we have a habit of naming everything ourselves. We call em Chain Booms or Boomers. I only own the type you have (180deg) but they do make a racheting load binder. I have some friends that have them and they are nice. No possibility of flying open. I will buy that type in future.

 

[Harv]

Keith -

You bring up a subject that might be worth a new thread -- forgetting you have something in the bucket.

Already, with only 22 hours under my belt, I have twice pulled a boner by forgetting I had tools in my bucket (good incentive to keep working on my ROPS rack). One time I was heading across the property to pick up some gravel from a small pile about 200 yards from my current work site. Since the pile was small I tossed a shovel in the bucket in case I couldn't get a good "scoop" and needed to do a little shoveling.

As you might have guessed, my short attention span was exceeded by the 200-yard trip and when I got there, I just lowered the bucket and plowed into the pile. Picked up a pretty good load, drove it back to the site, dumped it and got off to shovel it around a bit. Couldn't find my shovel. It took several minutes before I remembered that I had put it in the bucket. Had to to paw through the load I had just dumped to find it. /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

Another time I was finishing up for the day and was carrying all my hand tools back to the shop in the bucket. Got to daydreaming again, and when I passed my pile of crushed limestone, I thought maybe I'd dump a scoop of it on a troublesome low spot I had just passed. Fortunately this time, as I leveled the bucket to make my approach, I heard the clatter of the pick, shovel, prybar, sledge hammer, etc. falling out. "Oh, yeah!", I sez to my stupid self. /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif

I know this never happens to anybody else -- just thought I'd share.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Billc
The McMaster-Carr ( http://www.mcmaster.com/ ) catalog beginning on page 1176 has good descriptions of the various grades of chains and there intended uses. On page 1206 is a good outline of the various types and grades of hooks. Just type the page number in their search window and it will take you there.

They make a load binder that has a "security" hole for attaching a padlock to prevent the binder from being opened. Northern Tools sells at least one version, look for item 152981.

WVBill and McCallum
On page 1211 of McMaster-Carr there is a hook designed specifically for welded attachment. It is a slip hook. If you want a grab hook, I believe you will have to buy an "eye" hook and grind off most of the eye.

 

[Harv]

Richard -

Thanks for remaining calm -- I can just imagine if you had responded in the heat of passion. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Sounds like I've gotten what I've paid for. Of course, they already cost more than I thought a simple hook should cost, but I see from some of the catalogs and web sites mentioned on this board that quality equipment just plain costs money.

I'm not compelled to junk them yet, but I will be cautious when I use them. Now I'm concerned that my chain is a little on the chincy side, too. I could have gotten the fancy "system 7" stuff, but I was more concerned about my wallet at the time.

Which reminds me, oh learned ones -- when I do get more chain I probably will get the "system 7" this time, but should I stay with 3/8" or could I then drop down a size?

 

[Harv]

ClayG -

Wow! That's a great resource for all kinds of stuff!

Thanks for sharing.

 

[WVBill]

ClayG:

Bingo! That's what I had in mind for a mounting method, although I was picturing a grab hook. Also, at $64.41 it's a bit more pricey than I had hoped. $128 could better be spent on something else.

I think I may go with the grind-down the eye part approach.

Thanks for the McMaster resource, though - I'll be looking at it closely.

WVBill

 

[keitho]

Harv,

I know what you mean. Even in the short time I've had a tractor, the chain wasn't the first thing I forgot in the bucket. I almost took a scoop of dirt with a Stihl chainsaw in the bucket /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif. Anyway, I'm sure we'll learn eventually!

Keith

 

[jimmoore]

I always use a chain long enough to reach from the tractor to whatever I am dragging!! YUK!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gifYUK!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>Rd: I know this never happens to anybody else</font color=blue>

You're right, Harv, I've never buried my shovel./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif And at least every time I've dumped my chainsaw, gas can, chains, axe, hoes, rakes, etc. I've gotten stopped before I ran over them, so far./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bird

 

[Harv]

Jim -

<font color=blue>I always use a chain long enough to reach from the tractor to whatever I am dragging!! </font color=blue>

But from what I understand, if you use the higher quality stuff you only have to get "close". /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

 

[scruffy]

Harv,
I must admit, there's a certain poetic sense in using lower quality chain. If for some reason, your object takes off, (rolling downhill for example) you have a better chance of the chain breaking, rather than the higher quality chain dragging you around without breaking! So....one could look at it as a safety measure, without the intense gambling quality! )

 

[MChalkley]

Bill - Your questions have already been answered quite thoroughly by others, but I'll answer them, too, since you addressed your questions to me.

The best way to see the difference between various grades of chain is to look at a good catalog, like the McMaster catalog resource you were already directed to. As you can see, you can use chain two sizes smaller and get the same or greater strength if you go with high grade stuff instead of the cheap stuff.

As for the "bull dogs", or load or chain binders as they're also known, there are at least three types: plain old lever type binders, ratchet type binders (the screw type), and lever type with a spring that helps take up any slack that develops in the chain. The lever type don't work very well if there's nothing on the load to take up some slack (like suspension, soft tires, etc.), but the lever type with a spring work quite well. I wish they made a ratchet type with a spring to give you the best of both worlds, but I've never seen one. Normally I use a lever type with spring on one end of the tractor and a ratchet type on the other.

MarkC

 

[Estif]

I first read this thread last night...just did my first use of chains with my loader last weekend...today I was admiring the backhoe (TLB) in the holding yard at work...

The loader bucket on the TLB has two hooks welded on. They're the "eye" or "grommet" type, look to be just welded on there...they're slip hooks. The hooks on my loader bucket are grab hooks. Courtesy of the previous owner, they're the clevis type, installed through a couple holes drilled in the bucket. Not nearly as strong as welding, but they've endured everything I've done so far. ;-) Figured sooner or later I'd take them off, get a length of chain to mount them on, and get some others to weld on the bucket. But that brings me to the question...

From the last few posts I gather that some buckets have grab hooks and some have slip hooks. I guess my two samples of experience bears that out. My question is which is "standard". I would've guessed slip hooks, based on the TLB at work, because those guys are surely a lot more experienced than myself or even the guy I bought my tractor from. But is there a standard at all, or just preference? Why prefer one or the other? What are some pros and cons? As I said, the grab hooks on my loader have been fine for what use I've given them. I've never seen the ones at work actually used. Of course, they have things like 10-ton offroad forklifts for all the real lifting.

Steve

 

[MChalkley]

Personally, I much prefer having grab hooks on the FEL bucket. It makes it easier to attach the chain because you can just slip it into the grab hook anywhere along its length to attach it. With a slip hook, you have to wrap it several times, or use a grab hook on the chain to attach it to itself. Or, do what I do, since the hooks I have on my bucket now are fork mount hooks (essentially large slip hooks): hook a "chain shortener" (actually a special one with a slip on one end and a grab hook on the other) to the slip hook on the bucket, then hook the chain in the grab hook on the other end.

MarkC

 

[gordon]

Mark I got a piece of the square link chain awhile back. You were right it does work great. No slipping!!

On my bucket I've got a grab hook in the center and a slip hook on each end of the bucket. The hook I use the most is the grab hook in the center that way the load is more adapt to be centered. If I'm slinging something I'll use the slip hooks. I like the chain shorter idea with your bucket fork mounts. Best of both worlds.

With your forks do you have to use a ratchet strap to keep them in place when tipping the bucket?
Gordon

 

[MChalkley]

Gordon - I wondered if you'd tried the square link chain yet; I figured you'd be a good one to test it.

Instead of a ratchet strap, I run a piece of 1/4" chain around the fork, up the back side of the bucket, and around the bar the fork slides on. Then I don't have to worry about that ratchet getting sqashed by something.

MarkC