LED Lighting

[MicroPilot]

...Home depot had a LED work light that supposedly is the equiv of a 300 watt light, but it was next to a compact florescent that was also stated to be equiv to 300 watt. The florescent was at least 3 times brighter. I'm really confused as to how they test/rate these. The florescent was $38.00 the LED was $65.00.

Basically they can play all kinds of games with these numbers. Lumens is a function of distance.

This article does a good job of presenting what the light output terms mean. Lumens, Footcandles, Candlepower, Measuring Light Output

 

[ultrarunner]

At the Hospital in the basement, we have a few light T8 fixtures that are on 24/7... some of these sylvania bulbs date from 1995...

 

[chucko]

Someone help me understand why they cost so must more than a normal bulb or even a CF bulb. They can't be that much harder to make

 

[Iplayfarmer]

LED lights and residential LED lights are a fantastic way to reduce energy consumption while increasing lighting quality. LED Light Bulbs come in a variety of sizes and styles, and are designed to help you create a LED lighting schematic that not only looks beautiful, but is also energy efficient and safe.





led fluorescent tube replacement

I don't know if the advertising or public relations agency for LED lights could have said it any better.

I'm still not sold. The cost of the LED's is prohibitive for my budget.

 

[IslandTractor]

I don't know if the advertising or public relations agency for LED lights could have said it any better.

I'm still not sold. The cost of the LED's is prohibitive for my budget.

Agree. I didn't know if it was a marketing piece or just a fanboy's heartfelt promotion but it did not address several issues I have with todays LED products. Cost is still high and calculated savings assumes the lights actually last as long as they claim. My experience with early generation CFLs was that they were very unreliable and failed as quickly if not more quickly than traditional incandescent bulbs. It is not the technology itself but the manufacturing process that remains to be proven. I don't doubt LEDs are the future I'm just not prepared to be on the bleeding edge of a new technology again.

 

[tallyho8]

I bought one of the 7 watt leds that California refers to in post #1. It puts out a much whiter light than an ordinary incandescent bulb or a cfc. It is about the same color as a cool white fluorescent.

I have not had it long enough to judge the longevity of it but it does light things up pretty well for only 7 watts. It is many times brighter than a 7 watt incandescent night light bulb.

I have a closed circuit camera in my barn and I have been leaving an 8 watt cfc on to provide enough light for the camera to operate and I tried using this 7 watt led instead but it did not work as well and I had poorer quality vision on my monitor.

 

[dmccarty]

When we built our country house we lived near a HD. When building we worked out a deal with HD that gave us 10% off anything we bought for the house. The house has 85ish recessed light cans in which we installed CFLs. We have a dozen or so lights that have CFLs as well.

After we built a Lowes was opened near us which was good since the HD was 30 miles away.

We had been in the house 2-3 years when the HD CFL's started to fail which was as expected. We started buying CFLs from Lowes which would fail after 3-9 months. It was so bad and noticeable that I would write the install date on the CFL and keep the receipt. I would return the CFL's if they failed. After awhile that got old. Lowes started carrying GE CFLs that were a bit more money but they are lasting as long as the HD buibs. I will not buy the Lowes bulbs again. The are POS.

We have task lighting with small florescent bulbs. These light have been on 24x7x365 days since before we moved into the house. The only time they have been off is when we have lost power and once when my parents turned them off. :laughing: The bulbs are what came with the light fixtures. :thumbsup:

I would expect LEDs are going to be like so many other things. Some brands will stink while others will work as expected.

Later,
Dan

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Agree. I didn't know if it was a marketing piece or just a fanboy's heartfelt promotion but it did not address several issues I have with todays LED products. Cost is still high and calculated savings assumes the lights actually last as long as they claim. My experience with early generation CFCs was that they were very unreliable and failed as quickly if not more quickly than traditional incandescent bulbs. It is not the technology itself but the manufacturing process that remains to be proven. I don't doubt LEDs are the future I'm just not prepared to be on the bleeding edge of a new technology again.

I had similar results with CFLs here a few years ago. I bought a few packs and changed out my higher use fixtures. The CFL's were lasting maybe twice as long as incandescent bulbs. The energy savings became irrelevant when the cost of the bulbs was so much.

I sure hope that current bulbs last a lot longer than the first few I bought. Especially with Big Brother trying to phase out incandescent bulbs.

 

[Smallplot]

Someone help me understand why they cost so must more than a normal bulb or even a CF bulb. They can't be that much harder to make

Supply and Demand. Because IF they last as long as mfg's say, then the demand for new lights would not be as prevalent. Mfg has to make more money per unit instead of spreading out their cost over more units.

But if I say they last longer I will be able to charge more per light and they will still buy just as many lights as that other company's :laughing: while I do this all the way to the bank. :dance1::cool2:

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Supply and Demand. Because IF they last as long as mfg's say, then the demand for new lights would not be as prevalent. Mfg has to make more money per unit instead of spreading out their cost over more units.

But if I say they last longer I will be able to charge more per light and they will still buy just as many lights as that other company's :laughing: while I do this all the way to the bank. :dance1::cool2:

...until another company steps in and sells them for 10 cents less per light and starts a price war. I can only hope.

 

[grsthegreat]

The biggest factor in the price of LED fixtures and lamps right now is the research and development costs that the manufacturers are trying to recoup on our backs. Theres no way w piece of circuit board needed to create a led can make an led light bulb worth $30.00. Its probably a $0.10 piece.

 

[zmjc]

The biggest factor in the price of LED fixtures and lamps right now is the research and development costs that the manufacturers are trying to recoup on our backs. Theres no way w piece of circuit board needed to create a led can make an led light bulb worth $30.00. Its probably a $0.10 piece.

It's more complicated than that.

LED light bulbs have complex electronic circuitry in them, unlike a filament lamp. Underwriters Labs will not certify mass-market electronic circuits that operate above 100C / 212F (maybe a bit less, I forget). As a result, LED bulbs require fairly massive heatsinks to dissipate the heat, to stay under that limit. The 60W-equivalent bulbs are usually pretty heavy.

Big heatsink = lots of metal = lots of cost.

The LEDs themselves can actually tolerate higher operating temperatures.

There's lots of research going on to reduce the waste heat and temperatures...

On a side note, I've found the Home Depot LED bulbs (by Philips, IIRC) to be very reliable - more reliable that CFLs, for sure. Researchers have found the CFLs simply are not living up to the expected lifespans.

Another nice thing is that LED bulbs turn on reliably in the freezing cold, unlike CFLs. That's a huge bonus for hunting cabins / winter cottages / barns. I've have CFLs that simply wouldn't turn on below freezing. Very annoying.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

... Researchers have found the CFLs simply are not living up to the expected lifespans...

What?!! (he said in mock surprise) You mean these CFL's are not the panacea they are hyped up to be? That means that our noble congress has issued environmentally motivated mandates based on incomplete or unsound science.

Has that ever happened before?? (more mock surprise)

 

[zmjc]

What?!! (he said in mock surprise) You mean these CFL's are not the panacea they are hyped up to be? That means that our noble congress has issued environmentally motivated mandates based on incomplete or unsound science.

Mandating efficient lighting is a whole lot easier than building more generating stations and a reliable grid. I'm not even sure it is even possible to build a reliable grid, with the degree of interconnectedness we have today...

 

[grsthegreat]

if they could actually make ones that are both affordable and efficient, id agree. So far im still in the middle of seeing if its possible. Ive seen some LED's that seem like a good alternative, like some wallpacks that i just saw at the supply house that can replace a 100 watt metal halide and operate on 20 watts, but at $400 each, it would be a hard sell to get a storage yard with 24 light fixtures to pony up to the change. Why i mention this, is cause thats exactly what i tried to do last week, they just about laughed me out of the meeting, i had all the cost savings shown ....but its always the bottom line.

 

[California]

This is still bleeding edge stuff.

LED's now are at the same stage as those cell phones that had a coiled cable into a suitcase. They have proven that the technology works, in theory. But the manufactured LEDs on the market now are variable in quality (light color) and longevity. I don't think any of mine have a UL tag; only a few have any label whatsoever. One of eight died prematurely.

But I predict it won't take long for LEDs become mainstream. Like zmjc said "Mandating efficient lighting is a whole lot easier than building more generating stations and a reliable grid." There's a certain elegance in doing with seven watts, what took our great-great-grandparents 60 watts.

 

[reb]

I don't know if the advertising or public relations agency for LED lights could have said it any better.

I'm still not sold. The cost of the LED's is prohibitive for my budget.

I suspect Diane21 is an advertising or public relations rep for a lighting manufacturer. To date she has three posts, one an introduction and another similar to this one.

 

[zmjc]

This is still bleeding edge stuff.

I've seen some of the LEDs that Philips Lumileds has in development. You would not believe how much light some of these R&D-stage devices put out in response to 2 mA of current. Amazing.

It'll hit the stores someday... We can all dance in the streets when the CFLs are gone.

BTW, pay attention to the "color temperature" specifications when buying LEDs/CFLs. They all have them. 2700 and 3000K look really nice (warm yellow). Anything higher feels 'orrible, just 'orrible, to me.

 

[MicroPilot]

I suspect Diane21 is an advertising or public relations rep for a lighting manufacturer. To date she has three posts, one an introduction and another similar to this one.

I agree. I'm starting to see this more and more on forums....another more blatant example here on TBN is in the SkyBeam thread.

 

[zmjc]

great-great-grandparents 60 watts.

Eh? I doubt my great-great-grandparents ever saw a 60 Watt lightbulb.

My father didn't have electric lighting, until he left home for university to study ... drum roll ... electrical engineering.