L6060 Hard Starting In Cold Weather

[rScotty]

It's not right. Diesels are harder to start in cold weather, but not as hard as you describe.

I'd say on a near new tractor if you are leaving the block heater on all night - and you said it is working - then you aren't having trouble starting a cold engine, you are having trouble starting a warm one.
You also said it cranks fast enough, so about the only thing left is that since the engine is warm the glow plugs may not be coming on. You should check that.
If those things are right, I'd then check that the cylinder compression is within specs for a newish tractor - that will be a spec. in the shop manual.
And if compression is also good and it still starts that hard I'd be inclined to sell it back to the dealer. It's unlikely to get better.
rScotty

 

[LouNY]

If your engine is using a glow plug or manifold heater controller that is looking at engine temperature it will start hard using a block heater.
The glow plugs will not stay on long enough to do their job. If you check the temperature of the head and intake that will still be stone cold.
If the controller see's 50-60 degree water it will not keep the glow plugs on for the required length of time for zero degree head and intake.
Some times you can cycle the switch several times to get the heat or disconnect the temperature sensor to get the heat.

 

[Fxfymn413]

To answer the original question: Yes it sounds normal to me. At least my L4060 behaves in a similar manner on those rare occasions when we have very cold weather. (Close to 0 F and I do not use a block heater)

I'd try manually cycling the glow plugs by letting them come on, turn the ignition switch off briefly, and then back on to re-start the glow plug cycle, then try cranking it.

Kubota uses a pretty low temp to activate the glow plugs so the other responders are probably on to something when they indicate the block heater is causing an issue with the glow plugs.

I don't think it is a fair comparison to match the tractor with your truck. The truck is more likely to have more insulation along with a bigger engine which has aluminum components that will heat up more quickly.

 

[bdhsfz6]

What fuel are you using? Is it winterized diesel? If not, I would mix in some kerosene. It usually isn't ULS though so don't use too much.

I've had two L6060's. One open station and the other with a cab. Both start the same as all the other Kubota's I've owned. I don't get temps much below -20C here and the cranking speed does slow a bit when it does.

I will say the cab does take a long time to heat up. I usually start it and go tend the coal stove for 15 minutes or so.

 

[5030]

My diesel pick up truck (2021 GMC 6.6l Duramax) starts easily, quickly (very little GP cycling) and runs very smoothly after it starts.

If I'm not mistaken, your Duramax has an intake pre heater grid, not glow plugs. A hot of pre-heated intake air always pops them off.

 

[5030]

One of the most neglected items on a tractor (besides the air filter) is the starting battery. In reality, all you can expect far as useful life on a flooded cell battery is about 3 years. Even less if the posts and terminals are corroded. I change mine out every 3 years and I use the largest battery I can fin in the battery tray, in my case a Group 31 and I always buy as much CCA as I can get, in my case again 1200 CCA.

Contrary to popular belief, it's not the cold winter starts that shows a battery's weakness. It's the hot summers that destroy a battery but in the winter, when you really need max amperage to start a cold motor, the weakened over the summer battery cannot deliver the necessary amperage.

 

[Larry D Johnson]

almost new tractor or not this sounds like low compression. I would have the dealer check it.

 

[Hilbilly]

Woke up to -35*C this morning. No way I'm going outside to work on the tractor in these temps and I don't need it for any work today. If it warms up enough I will check the glow plug resistance. Seems like that would be easy enough to do. I can also check to see if they are getting power by checking the feed wire to each. According to the WSM, each wire should provide approximately the same voltage as the battery. The battery is only 2 years old, same as the tractor and it turns the engine over well enough, considering the temps.

I will also check the air filter. I just checked it a few weeks ago and all was fine but I have been moving some light snow that could have easily been sucked in to the air intake.

If it is a low compression issue, it could have been caused by the damn salesman at the dealers. When I picked up the tractor I asked him what a button on the joystick was for and instead of telling me he pushed it and held it. That button was to rev the tractor up, momentarily, when doing heavy work. He revved it to max rpm and the Owners Manual states not to rev the engine beyond 1/2 throttle during the first 50 hours. Dumb a$$. Although, The tractor seems to have lots of power, so maybe no damage was done.

 

[Jchonline]

Ever since I got the L6060 I've noticed it was hard starting in cold weather, even after the block heater has been plugged in all night. Last year I called the dealer and told him of the issue and he said to use a multi meter and test across the plug terminals to see if there was resistance and there was. So this winter the same old problem again. This time I plugged in the block heater and put my finger on the part of the heater that sticks out of the block. It was so hot it almost burnt my fingers. However it is still hard to start. I then took a temperature reading of the engine coolant, using the intellipanel, and it indicated the coolant was 26*C before I started the engine. This morning at -26*C the tractor was hard to start and even stalled after the first attempt. The second attempt was successful but both times the glow plugs were on for a very long time before I started the engine. Then it took forever for the cab heater to start producing heat and it took a very long time before the engine temp gauge moved. The engine runs rough for a while and eventually settles down but this is so different from all the other diesel engines I have owned and still own. They all start very easy after being plugged in and it does not take long for them to produce heat. Something seems wrong with this setup.

Any ideas?

You may want to put some insulating material around the engine cover (front radiator, sides of hood) to help keep that heat in. There is a gentleman on the OTT forums that sells them if you dont want to make your own.

Kubota L3560 and Grand L 60 Series Winter Front Covers Now Available

I was asked to make a set of winter front covers for this person’s Kubota L3560 Limited Edition tractor that he had just taken delivery of. That is one NICE tractor. I believe one plan for it is in his snow removal business, hence the covers. He let it sit in my shop for a week to work up the...

www.orangetractortalks.com

 

[crazyal]

I have a block heater and only use it for an hour or less so the temp doesn't get that hot. But it's the block temp, not the radiator or intake manifold. I'm not sure where the temp sensor is but I would guess on the manifold. Either way even after an hour with the block heater on the glow plugs still come on. I would say below 40f and they are needed.

Did you buy it new? I seriously doubt low compression is your problem. I could be wrong but I have seen very old Kubotas with serious blowby problems that start just fine in the dead of winter as long as the glow plugs work. It could be a battery issue. A simple test is to turn on the headlights and try to start it. The lights might dim a little but not much if the battery is good.

I also doubt that all the glow plugs died on a fairly new tractor. That's why I was focusing on the relay. The relays are just off the shelf items made in mass for lots of different applications. It's possible that you just got unlucky. To me it's something common to all of them. A relay is simple but it could be wiring. You wouldn't be the first tractor owner to have a mouse decide it was a nice place to spend the winter and nibble at the wiring. It could be something odd like the computer or one of the systems it checks that's causing it. The biggest problem is, at least on my Kubota, that the relays are behind the dash. For a cabbed tractor it could be a little tricky to get to them.

Is the tractor still under warranty? If so I would hand it off to them. I'm guessing either it's not or getting it to the dealer is an issue.

 

[5030]

If compression was an issue, it would smoke. It don't. Heck, my one Kubota has 6000 meter hours on it and the compression is still within factory specs. Kubota motors are pretty durable so long as you don't ever use either on them.

 

[5030]

The biggest problem is, at least on my Kubota, that the relays are behind the dash. For a cabbed tractor it could be a little tricky to get to them.

On my open station M, they are. On my cab M, they are below the dash next to the fuse box. Actually very easy to access.

 

[rScotty]

almost new tractor or not this sounds like low compression. I would have the dealer check it.

That's right. Hilbilly, the thing mechanics always worry about on diesels is low compression, because they are "compression ignition" engines. It sounds like you know that, so this is for anyone who might not. Compression of the incoming charge is what causes a diesel to ignite the fuel. Compression is a diesel's "spark plug". upper cylinder compression may be related to oil consumption, but not always. It could be valve clearance for example...

Although eventual old age and low compression is the ultimate fate of all good diesels (and all internal combustion engines for that matter), I agree that it is rare in young ones and that Kubotas seem particularly durable and resistant to that particular wear.

So much so that when I bought my last Kubota I did so knowing that it had over 30 hours as a demo - which meant that it had almost certainly been started cold and revved as a matter of course - but it didn't worry me. It sounded right, and started from cold so I figured it was OK and it still is.

From a mechanic's viewpoint - that's me for many years - you check compression for two reasons....
First of all you check because the main symptom of low compression is hard starting when cold. When warmed up even a low compression diesel makes decent power, so power doesn't work as a test. Some consume oil and some don't, so that isn't diagnostic either.
The other reason - and the best reason to measure the compression - is just to eliminate engine compression as a possible problem. That's important to do because if a diesel has good compression it's a good bet that that engine is pretty much golden throughout. With good compression all the other problems become easy. They are easier to find and worthwhile to fix. Basically you check the compression so you don't have to worry about it & can get down to fixing what needs to be done.

So ask your dealer to please measure the compression. On a new diesel the injectors are still easy to get in and out - it's not much harder than pulling spark plugs. He can test it and put it back as it was in half an hour. Or any diesel mobile unit can do in an hour along with a sandwich and some conversation.

And then you can stop worrying about that dumb salesman....
good luck,
rScotty

 

[Rancho C Don]

I cycle the glow plugs on & off twice before trying to start. It fires up right away every time!

 

[priberc]

Ever since I got the L6060 I've noticed it was hard starting in cold weather, even after the block heater has been plugged in all night. Last year I called the dealer and told him of the issue and he said to use a multi meter and test across the plug terminals to see if there was resistance and there was. So this winter the same old problem again. This time I plugged in the block heater and put my finger on the part of the heater that sticks out of the block. It was so hot it almost burnt my fingers. However it is still hard to start. I then took a temperature reading of the engine coolant, using the intellipanel, and it indicated the coolant was 26*C before I started the engine. This morning at -26*C the tractor was hard to start and even stalled after the first attempt. The second attempt was successful but both times the glow plugs were on for a very long time before I started the engine. Then it took forever for the cab heater to start producing heat and it took a very long time before the engine temp gauge moved. The engine runs rough for a while and eventually settles down but this is so different from all the other diesel engines I have owned and still own. They all start very easy after being plugged in and it does not take long for them to produce heat. Something seems wrong with this setup.

Any ideas?

Looking at the posts before mine you have been getting nothing but good advice from the people here. Of particular interest to me is that you mention the tractor runs rough for a long time [or quits as you claim] on a cold start. Check your glow plugs. One weak one will be a deal breaker as far as starting in very cold temps like you are dealing with now. Sounds to me like you may have a set of weak ones with some working better than others or not at all. Looking at specifications for the tractor it looks like it doesn't come with the best of batteries either.....look for 900 CCA or better. 900 IMO 900 CCAs is the least you should have. No doubt about it if you can fit it in the battery box put it in bigger is better. 10w/30 is good but IMO 5w/40 oil is what should be in it year round. You should notice the engine spin over a little faster on start up in the winter with better hot weather lubrication qualities in the summer. As far as the engine temps not coming up/coming up slowly Cardboard is your best friend. When it warms up outside take the time and trim up a piece of card board and place it in front of your radiator. My radiator is 90% completely blocked off and it still takes some time to get up to temp. I see you are in Barrier....I am in Prince George BC -38c here this morning. All I have mentioned to you ,battery oil and for me a much better block heater, I had to do with my tractor here when I bought bought it. I feel your pain. Get those glow plugs thoroughly checked out ASAP. If there is any doubt change them all out

 

[Hilbilly]

What fuel are you using? Is it winterized diesel? If not, I would mix in some kerosene. It usually isn't ULS though so don't use too much.

I've had two L6060's. One open station and the other with a cab. Both start the same as all the other Kubota's I've owned. I don't get temps much below -20C here and the cranking speed does slow a bit when it does.

I will say the cab does take a long time to heat up. I usually start it and go tend the coal stove for 15 minutes or so.

I have a storage tank that I draw fuel from and it has some summer fuel in it. Before the big cold spell hit I added some anti gel to the tank. Yesterday I checked the fuel filter at the tank and the water separator on the tractor. Neither showed any sign of gelling, so I think I am ok there. I guess today's colder weather will be a test.

 

[Hilbilly]

This is what the WSM states about the GP system. "When the main switch is turned "ON", the temperature of the coolant is detected with the coolant temperature sensor, and the time to supply current to the glow plug and the glow indicator lamp is controlled by CPU according to the detected temperature. And the supply current to the glow plug is stopped automatically when the preheating time
is completed, and indicator lamp on the electronic meter panel is turned off." Then, perhaps the block heater is confusing the GP controller.

I went out this morning and used the IR Therm to check block temps. I found the block was anywhere from -25*F to -35*F. I checked the temp of the block heater and best I could tell it was 86*F. I then used the intellipanel to check coolant temp and it read 3*C. I cycled the GP's 3 times before trying to start but then the battery was just about dead. The engine spun but not fast enough and it did not even try to start. I put the battery charger on and will try again in a while. This time without the block heater plugged in. I might just grab another battery out of the warm shop and hook jumper cables up to the tractor battery. That should give it plenty of juice for the start up. One more try like that, then I may have to move it into the heated shop for some more serious investigation. Or call the dealer to see if this issue is covered under my existing warranty. The Basic Warranty is over but there is still some other warranty coverage.

Thanks to everyone for the great ideas. Obvioulsy a lot of very knowledgeable and helpful people here.

 

[newbury]

I just checked the Owners Manual and it states to use SAE 10W30 for temps below -10*C, which is what I am using.

I'll see how it does tomorrow. Supposed to get to -30*C tonight and it is plugged in now.

I've a 7.3 Ford dually, southern vehicle, no engine heater. Had difficulty starting it in the winter in northern Virginia w/ T6 15W40 when temps approached 10 below freezing, switched to T6 5W40 made a big difference.

 

[Hilbilly]

Well, I tried with 2 batteries in parallel, cycled the GP's twice then tried to start it. It spun up very well and seemed to try to start once and then started to knock. I shut it down, thinking I may have a new problem now. Could be gelled fuel. I can't even move the tractor in to the shop to warm it up. I have the front mount plow on the FEL and the rear snowblower attached. Both are sitting on the ground. My next attempt will be to cover the engine with blankets and tarps. Then put an electric heater under the engine, once the temps get a little higher.

 

[LouNY]

I don't know what your ambient temperature was when you tried to start,
but in sub zero F I have had to keep the starter turning when the engine started to fire
just to keep it going, even though it was firing it wasn't running good enough to carry it through.
It would seem at times it was for several revolutions. Till the noise and smoke would start to clear
and the engine smooth out and run.