L48 or L4610?

[Jag]

Re: L48 Loader Problems

Rat, watch what you say about Tonka... One steel toy truck is the only thing that survived my childhood.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Re: L48 Loader Problems

Agreed, I had a full five piece set back in the early 60's. I was thinking more about todays products.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Hey Mutt, remember in your L 48 for the weekend post you mentioned disliking having to depress the clutch to start up the engine, I test drove an L48 and just as I thought when you mentioned this, by having the shift lever in N or neutral, it starts without depressing the clutch allowing you to use the hoe without getting out of the seat. I also got to use the loader and found it not only much faster operating then its specs would indicate, but quite powerful. Thanks for all the input you've given regarding this subject, Rat....

 

[HR_Mutt]

Rat
Is great news that you're getting a "handle" on the L48, maybe I'll pick your brain before renting it again/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif.
I left trans. in gear so I could move forwards from the bh seat by just grabbing the hst pedal. As far as the frequent shut-offs, that was just so I could retrieve the camera for some pics. Wasn't sure I could get projects done in allocated time.

Looking forward to a post of yours in <font color=orange>Kubota Owning</font color=orange> /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
regards
Mutt

 

[foz]

Sorry I forgot to mention about the gaurds at the front axle, I have bent them back 3 or 4 times now, just remove them & reshape with 8 pound hammer.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Went to a local dealer/friend and drove the L48 around for the first time. It was a great tractor. No hoe on this one and I can see where a heavy box scraper and ballasted tires are a must. While looking at both the L4610 and the L 48 almost next to each other, I noticed a few things. Both are great. The loader on the L48 is definitely stiffer, thats not to say the L 4610 was soft, but there was some difference. I suppose for the advantage of being able to quickly remove the loader on the 4610 this is a small price to pay . Forward visibility on the 4610 was better, but I'm used to using much bigger loaders with worse visibilty. The controls and high, medium and low was faster and easier on the L48, its a straight line rather then an h pattern on the 4610. The engine on the 4610 seemed a bit quieter then the L48. The hydraulic loader lines on the L48 are all 1/2" vs 3/8" on L4610. Overall, for only a few thousand more, ( about $3300) I'm inclined to go with the L48 TL. Again, I won't be making a mistake either way. The HST is sooo smooth. Full throttle, low, stomp down on the pedal and its smooth. At idle, in high, stomp on the pedal, engine loads up but won't die. Its smooth with no HST whine. HST is the only way to go and I use a shuttle tractor all day that is very easy. The instant forward/reverse is similar to using a skid steer, its fast and very smooth even when quickly stabbing into full reverse while going full forward. Rat...

 

[MChalkley]

Yeah, but gears are more efficient. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

MarkC

 

[JATO_RaT]

Yeah but, but, but, HST is more efficient then a shovel and wheelbarrow. So MChalkley, checked out the new products from Bobcat? T190 track steer or 4 wheel drive, crabing, all wheel steering super extendo loader HST Perkins fired same size tire on all 4 wheels beast? Rat...

 

[MChalkley]

Rat - Yeah, I've heard about it, and looked through a copy of the owner's manual for one at a dealer. It's not a T190, though - that's the track loader. I forget the model designation of the new one, but it hasn't been formally announced yet, I don't think - that's supposedly going to be at the FL equipment show, whenever that is - soon I think.

It looks very interesting, and proves my point all along - that there are a lot of folks who aren't impressed by skid steers and won't be convinced to ignore their shortcomings because of popular opinion and millions of dollars of advertising. The dealer who showed me the manual did so after telling me at least a dozen times - in response to my list of the reasons I hate skid steers (he asked, so he started it) - "Well, there's a lot of people using them for what you're doing." Finally, I told him "Look, you're not going to convince me by telling me that lots of other people are using them. Most people don't think. They do what the dealer tells them to do, or what the dealer tells them "everybody else" is doing. Give it up. Either address the issues, or just listen." (I was nicer about it than the printed version of my statement sounds. Actually, I liked him - he was genuinely trying to be helpful - he'd just been to too many "dealer sales seminars" and I must not be his average customer. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif) At that point, he listened a while, then said "Have you heard about the new Bobcat with 4-wheel-steering and crab steering? It hasn't been announced yet, but I've got a manual for it." You can imagine what my reaction was. "Why did you just spend 3/4 of an hour trying to convince me I'm wrong, then give up and prove to me that Bobcat corporate knows I'm right?"

All that said, the new machine is no EarthForce, by any stretch. Then again, I guess most folks don't need an EarthForce. The biggest difference between the EarthForce and the new Bobcat, other than capacity when you get into the EF-3 class and up, is the ability of the EarthForce to have a backhoe (or whatever else will attach to a backhoe/mini-excavator) follow it around all the time. Of course, there's some mobility/space requirement compromises in favor of the new Bobcat there, too. Nothing comes without compromise...

MarkC

 

[johnjc]

Re: L48 Loader Problems

I called the dealer Friday and 1 of the parts they were waiting for had come in and was installed. The other was substituted by the computer and the wrong thing came . The part that was installed went into the lower valve body (level control).
Picked it up and took it out to my ground and it works better but still doesn't seem to have the power it should.
Probably be a week till the rest of the parts come in.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Re: L48 Loader Problems

John, I test drove a L48 last week. Tried some of the manuverers you spoke of with the loader and found nothing different from every other loader with the one exception of the auto level feature. When getting the lift and roll "out of synch" that is, stoping lift while rolling the bucket, I could then force the roll to bottom out "pull in" all the way while still lowering the arms. It simply slowed the lowering by a small amount. Other then that, the loader could immediately lift the tractor off the ground with no hestitation. While I realize this is very little load, it indicates that things are moving properly. I was impressed with the L 48's overall ability to move. While running the engine at full throttle, in low, and stomping on the HST pedal, the engagement was very smooth. When going to idle in high range, stomping down on the HST pedal the tractor did load up, but pulled through without stalling. A great way to test how good your HST is. Hope your issue is resolved soon, Rat...

 

[Vtliving]

I have a L4200 and was looking to add a backhoe to it or trade it in for a L48. The L48 is a very impressive tractor, but the upgrade is going to run me $26,000 after trade-in. Ouch. My backhoe needs will only be occasional (I'm a weekend tractor kind of guy) and I do use a lot of other 3pt hitch implements. After reading the post, I think buying a 7 1/2 foot woods backhoe for about $6,000 makes the most sense/cents for me. It seems everyone feels the L4610 is actually easier and quicker to switch between backhoe and other implements. My question is, are you assuming a three-point hitch mounting backhoe or a frame mount backhoe? I guess I'm leaning toward the 3pt model since it's cheaper and easier (I assume) to get on and off and should still meet my needs. I would appreciate any input or advice on this.

thanks Vermont Living

 

[MChalkley]

VL - I would advise extreme caution with that class of backhoe in a 3-pt mount. It will work but if you broke your tractor in half with it, I can assure you that you wouldn't be among the first 50 people to do so. It's been done many times - I've seen two examples of it having been done myself - after the fact, fortunately.

As I said, it will work, and it won't hurt the tractor if you're careful, but some folks just aren't, and it's very hard to be careful if you're inexperienced in backhoe operation. (I'm not intending to imply you are - I have no idea - just stating the warning so anyone whose foot fits can wear the shoe. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif)

The reason 3-pt mount backhoes are so hard on the tractor technically has nothing to do with the fact that the backhoe mounts to the 3-pt linkage - it's because the tractor has no separate "chassis" or "frame". If you think about it, you can see that the only thing holding the front and rear axles together is the bolting of the engine to the transmission and the transmission to the rear axle housing.

Frame mount backhoes have the advantage of providing rigidity to the tractor which prevents damaging it. They have the disadvantage of requiring you to remove the lower links of the three point hitch to mount the backhoe.

There's one frame mount backhoe (that I know of) that offers the advantages of the frame mount without the disadvantages, the Bradco. It's a bit more expensive than the Woods, but you're getting more that the difference in quality and safety, I think. I had a Bradco 609 on my L4310HST - that's a lot more backhoe than the Woods you're talking about, and probably more than you want/need, and it cost a little over $9k - but I could mount and unmount it in 5 minutes or so. Also, check out the "L4310 enhancements" thread in the "Tractor Customization" forum for some details on a hydraulic setup that makes the backhoe installation usage a lot easier. The main message that talks about it is a repost from the previous TBN board, and it's on this page: http://www.tractorbynet.com/cgi-bin/compact/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=custom&Number=3472&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&part=6&vc=1, about a third of the way down the page. There's also a few pictures in that thread that show the Bradco subframe and the plumbing.

MarkC

 

[Anonymous Poster]

As Mark said... for $9K {better than $26K /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif}, only a few thousand difference, I'd consider the Bradco unit...

 

[MChalkley]

Plus, if you back down to the 509 or so, you're comparing backhoes in the same size class, and the difference is even less...

Thanks for the pics, John.

MarkC

 

[johnjc]

Re: L48 Loader Problems

The dealer Installed the remaining parts in my loader last week and I picked it up last Fri.
But didn't have time to take it out and test it this weekend. Hope It doesn't always take this long to get Kubota parts. Should be able to give it a good workout next weekend.

 

[johnjc]

Re: L48 Loader Problems

Finally got a chance to try my tractor after the new parts had been installed in the loader.
And while is much improved It is still not as good as my 305DT with 1720 loader was.
I have been cutting a flat into the side of a hill to build my cabin on. The grade is a little steep so I have been backing across the face a leveling a strip about 15 ft. wide with the backhoe and dumping the dirt over the side. Then I go down on the part that is flat and move the dirt to build up the low side.
This allows me to back out to the end of the flat I just made and reach over the end with the hoe and brake up the slate rock and dump it over the side. Breaks much easier lifting.
The first problem I was having was when pushing the loader bucket into the loosened rock at the base of the flat I didn't have enough power to curl the bucket. Sometimes I actually had to backup to curl the bucket and only got ½ a bucket load. Now at most all I have to do is let off on the HST.
Second problem. I reach up with the loader and try to pull the loose dirt off of the edge of the flat by down curling the loader bucket. Still can't do this.
I guess my next step is to order a gage and check my hydraulic pressure against the service manual

 

[HR_Mutt]

Re: L48 Loader Problems

johnjc
Sorry to hear you're still having problems. The L48 I rented had similar problems and dealer just said it was a tricky adjustment. Have you tried another dealer service dept? You might just be going about it the right way now, figure it out for yourself. Good Luck!
regards
Mutt

 

[HKSawyer]

John, what is the tractor in the photos you posted with the blue Bradco BH attached?
An NH something or other, I suppose. Do you know what model? Or perhaps someone else does.
thanks

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Horace,

To tell you the truth, I don't remember the model NH it was on... I was experimenting with a cheapo digital camera at the time...

Maybe it was the TC15 or something..../w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif....just kidding.../w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif {the BX killer..........}