L3400 aftermarket remotes, top-n-tilt

[canoetrpr]

Found out that Kubota does not offer a factory remote kit for my L3400. Mad pointed out in another thread that Kubota also does not have a top-n-tilt kit for my tractor.

I know very little to nothing about hydraulics so please bear with my dumb questions:

1. I'm guessing there are others out there that have after market remotes installed and an after market top-n-tilt. What brand of each did you use? Is it much harder to mount the remotes given it is not a factory setup?

2. If by any chance you have a photo of your setup (particularly the remote installation) I'd greatly appreciate if you could post it so that I can get an idea of where it is mounted. Guessing that the top-n-tilt just has a cylinder replacing each of the top link and adjustable side link?... Is it much effort to install these if I get them shipped from someplace?

I likely will not take on the project of putting on remotes myself but I figure that putting on a cylinder for a top link and replacing the side link with a cylinder ought to be easy even for me ? (correct me if I am wrong)?

3. What should I expect to pay for an after market top-n-tilt kit? I have a pretty good idea of what remotes are going to cost me installed but have no clue about a top-n-tilt kit.

4. In case I get adventurous.... the though thas crossed my mind of taking on the job of putting the remotes on myself. I've never done anything like this (or close)... How difficult a job can I expect this to be? Any pointers at all on things I am likely to screw up? What sort of valve am I looking to buy?

 

[Trahere]

1. Nope!

2. Don't own a camera!

3. A lot!

4. In the direction of a dealer!

 

[rswyan]

1. Nope!

2. Don't own a camera!

3. A lot!

4. In the direction of a dealer!

Incredibly helpful answer ......

On my B2910 I used a 3 section Prince SV stack valve - cost around $200.00 If you don't want expandability you can use a mono-block valve - either Prince or another brand - with however many work sections you think you will want/need. Surplus Center is a good source:

http://surpluscenter.com/

You need a open-center valve with Power Beyond, designed to control double acting cylinders. Generally folks use a spring-return to center, although some have used worksections which have detented and/or float positions.

For the toplink cylinder I sourced mine from Mark Carter @ CCM, a TBN sponsor:

http://www.ccmachinery.com/TNT.htm

I think it was around $165.

On the side link I got lucky and found a brand new Gannon/Tisco HSL2202 on ebay for cheap - think it was around $65. CCM also carries sidelinks but I don't know what the their stock status is on either top or side links.

I have my valve mounted on the left side of my ROPS - I'm not including a photo because I'm not happy with where or how it is mounted. I plan on remounting it on the right side, on the ROPS - but with a different orientation. When I get it done I ill upload a pic but it won't be any time soon. For the valve mount bracket it helps if you can weld - If not source it locally.

Adding the remote valve isn't really that daunting of a task - the biggest thing is figuring out what fittings you need and how you are going to route the hoses. With some forethought you can probably cover the fittings pretty well though chances are you will overlook something and need to source a fitting or two locally. These guys are a good source for fittings and hoses:

http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/

To find hoses lengths use a piece of garden hose placed as you intend to route the hydraulic lines to get a measurement. (This tip courtesy of MadReferee) Slightly long is probably way better than too short.

With hoses and everything else I figure I have about $600 or so in mine.

 

[MadReferee]

rswyan pretty much summed it up.

Here are some pics of my setup. I used the Prince SV valve with 3 spools. You can read about it HERE.

I will be more than happy to tell you how to plumb the hydraulics. I have posted instructions many times. Anybody with any mechanical skill can do it.

 

[canoetrpr]

MadRef and rswyan:

Cannot thank you enough for your informative posts!

I've been trying to map your suggestions rswyan to stuff that can be sourced locally as shipping over the border invaribly gets expensive due to UPS brokerage fees.

Here is what I have found for open centered valves at Princess Auto - a local place:

http://members.shaw.ca/DL0003/HYD-CAN.pdf

Look at page 17. A three spool BM 40 seems to fit the bill I think. The only thing it does not have is "power beyond"/.

It appears that this might be addable as an option (page 18).

This leads to a dumb question - what is "power beyond" and why is it needed.

As for a hydraulic top link, I am either I can find something on page 3,4 that might fit the bill or I'm guessing that they could custom make one for me.

Here are some other possibly silly questions;

- I studied how the hydraulics are routed to the loader valve. I see 3 hoses that tap in to the tractor's hydraulic system that provide fluid to the loader valve. There appear to be 'ports' for more hoses to be connected to the spot that the loader valve gets its hydraulic fluid from. Not sure what this spot is called but I am guessing this is where I would have to tap in for the input of my remote valves and route hoses from there to where the valves will be located (right hand side on the ROPS).

The question is: why are there 3 hoses that go to the loader valve?

Next question is: When doing the hook ups, how do you prevent fluid from spilling all over the place? When I unhook one of the spots on block where the loader valve gets its fluid from, I expect that hydraulic fluid will be spilling out of it? Do I have to drain the system to do this or anything?

Sorry if these questions are really silly.

 

[MadReferee]

Here is what I have found for open centered valves at Princess Auto - a local place:

http://members.shaw.ca/DL0003/HYD-CAN.pdf

Look at page 17. A three spool BM 40 seems to fit the bill I think. The only thing it does not have is "power beyond"/.

It appears that this might be addable as an option (page 18).

This leads to a dumb question - what is "power beyond" and why is it needed.

That valve with the power beyond option should work.

Simply stated, a valve with power beyond will have a seperate outlet for return to tank so that neutral pressure fluid that is exhausted from the cylinders via the works ports goes directly to the tank/sump and not put back into the pressure flow. This alows fluid not used by the work port to pass thru the valve and continue on to the next valve in line, thus providing constant flow to the next valve (the one beyond) in line.

I studied how the hydraulics are routed to the loader valve. I see 3 hoses that tap in to the tractor's hydraulic system that provide fluid to the loader valve. There appear to be 'ports' for more hoses to be connected to the spot that the loader valve gets its hydraulic fluid from. Not sure what this spot is called but I am guessing this is where I would have to tap in for the input of my remote valves and route hoses from there to where the valves will be located (right hand side on the ROPS).

Those are the caps for the load checks. They are NOT ports. There is a poppet and spring under those caps. Once again, valves MUST be connected in SERIES with each other. I just posted in another thread the proper way to hookup an aux valve for remotes. But I will do again here just for you:

1. disconnect the loader valve's power beyond hose from the tractor hydraulic block. This will most likely be the hose that is on the left nearest to the rear of the tractor (see owners manual).
2. using a new longer hose or a short hose with a union fitting, connect the just disconnected hose to your aux valve's pressure inlet.
3. connect the power beyond outlet of your aux valve to the tractor hydraulic block where the loader hose was disconnected.
4. connect the return to tank outlet of your aux valve to the transmission sump. Use a tee fitting and connect it to the same place where the loader valve's return to tank hose connects to the transmission. This is the only line that may be teed.
5. your aux valve is now ready to use.

The question is: why are there 3 hoses that go to the loader valve?

One hose is for pressure in from the pump (or from the power beyond from a previous valve), one is the power beyond that goes to the next valve in line, and the last one is the return to tank.

Next question is: When doing the hook ups, how do you prevent fluid from spilling all over the place? When I unhook one of the spots on block where the loader valve gets its fluid from, I expect that hydraulic fluid will be spilling out of it? Do I have to drain the system to do this or anything?

You will get a tablespoon or two of fluid, probably not more than 1/2 cup. Unless the tractor is running, and it shouldn't be at this point, the supply lines are not under pressure. I would move the loader joystick thru all positions to at least relieve the pressure to the work ports before working on the system.

Sorry if these questions are really silly.

No question is silly but all these have been asked and answered on TBN many times before.

 

[wushaw]

My hoses (Press & return) on my L2800 are on the hyd block on the R/H side just in ft. of the hyd filter.
Mine was set-up initally for my BH, when I use my T&T there is also a bypass hose that comes off the spool valves that dumps into the hyd fill port just behind the seat.
I would get some pictures but I'm at work. I can probably get some tomorrow morning.

 

[MadReferee]

My hoses (Press & return) on my L2800 are on the hyd block on the R/H side just in ft. of the hyd filter.
Mine was set-up initally for my BH, when I use my T&T there is also a bypass hose that comes off the spool valves that dumps into the hyd fill port just behind the seat.
I would get some pictures but I'm at work. I can probably get some tomorrow morning.

Your naming terminology is slightly off. The two hoses on the hydraulic block are the pressure line form the pump and the power beyond from the valve. The line that dumps into the port just under the seat is the return to tank line. The return to tank line is the only line that can be teed together with another. All Kubota loaders are plumbed this way.

 

[canoetrpr]

No question is silly but all these have been asked and answered on TBN many times before.

Mad.. once again - I very much appreciate the time you have taken to answer my questions.

I may or may not take on this project on my own but an education in how the hydraulic system on my tractor works is well worth my while.

I did find the other thread you were referring to and will plug away at reading all the threads that were referred to regarding this subject.

 

[canoetrpr]

I did think up one more question which I also thought up answer to.

If all the valves are connected in series then where does the 3PT hitch valve fit in? I am guessing that it is implicitly either the first or the the last valve in the series.

Did I get this right?

I have to say, after getting these few questions answered, this job does look managable.....maybe

 

[MadReferee]

I did think up one more question which I also thought up answer to.

If all the valves are connected in series then where does the 3PT hitch valve fit in? I am guessing that it is implicitly either the first or the the last valve in the series.

Did I get this right?

On just about every tractor that I can think of, it's the last valve in the circuit.

 

[wushaw]

Mad you were right, I just took some pics and just thought the hoses ran to just the hyd block.

Well here is the way it is run on mine.
The first one is the hyd block, the hose on the upper left is one going to the spool valve labled out.
The second is of where it connects to on the spool valve, it is the upper "B" nut fitting.
The third and fourth pics are of the connection on the loader valve, it is the L/H fitting just outside the blue and red QD fittings.
The fifth is where the line from the loader connects to the spool valve right on the top labled in.
The sixth is the return to tank line, if you have a BH75 then it needs to have a QD fitting the be able to remove this line for BH seat clearance. It connects to the spool valve in pict #2 on the bottom side or if you could see the whole valve it would be in the middle.
And the last is the operators end of the busness. I have it setup as closest is top, middle tilt and outside is scarfiers.
Hope this helps some.

 

[ccsial]

As far as I knew the remote on my L3400 is from Kubota unless my dealer got it from an aftermarket firm. If he did he didn't mention that. I use it to run the chute on my snow blower. It bolts to the ROPS. See pictures.

The small bread pan mounted on top of the bracket I added to hold my gloves and pruning trimmers.

 

[MadReferee]

As far as I knew the remote on my L3400 is from Kubota unless my dealer got it from an aftermarket firm. If he did he didn't mention that. I use it to run the chute on my snow blower. It bolts to the ROPS. See pictures.

The small bread pan mounted on top of the bracket I added to hold my gloves and pruning trimmers.

The remotes offered for the L2800/L3400 are the same as those offered for the older B series Kubotas. The L4400 are slightly different valves but similar. They are all external valves that are plumbed in series with the loader valve.

These Kubota valves are really expensive as an almost identical setup (ie. Prince SV valve) can be purchased for about 1/4 to 1/3 of what Kubota charges. For example a 3 spool Prinve SV with hoses and fittings will run about $400 +/-. A 3 spool setup from Kubota will run almost $1200 for the L2800/L3400 and $1600 for the L4400. It pays to shop around for alternative options.

 

[canoetrpr]

Hi Mad:

Another silly question for you.

Where can I source a mounting bracket of the type I have seen almost all rear valves connected to the ROPS with. This type of mounting of the valve seems easy enough for even me to do (I was afraid I'd have to get into welding and my tractor is not the best spot for me to learn to weld!).

Also any idea where I can source a cosmetic black plate to cover the valve - much like ccsial's? Most photos of installations I have seen here tend to use these - looks nice and clean.

 

[MadReferee]

Where can I source a mounting bracket of the type I have seen almost all rear valves connected to the ROPS with. This type of mounting of the valve seems easy enough for even me to do (I was afraid I'd have to get into welding and my tractor is not the best spot for me to learn to weld!).

Also any idea where I can source a cosmetic black plate to cover the valve - much like ccsial's? Most photos of installations I have seen here tend to use these - looks nice and clean.

I fabricated my own and I also did one for 8651 for his B2410. Your best bet if you don't weld is to go to a local welding shop and have them make you one from scrap. It shouldn't cost very much. First make a template out of cardboard so the welder can have a reference to build to.