Kubota L6060 Engine failure

[Username Taken]

One ahh s##t cancels 100 atta boys, adage learned first thing on job. Director of engineering would send good letters around and you would check off your name (before email). Then the really upset customer would mail the president and believe me, those flowed downhill with notes like “find out what happened and get back to me immediately”. We reached a point where, for example, the person responsible for filling transmission with oil signed off on an empty transmission. Customer was reading combine home from dealer when the transmission seized. Wasn’t some rep visiting the customer. Person from the line was given an airline ticket and told to go out there and apologize. Dealer will accompany you so don’t worry about being alone but admit your error. Talk about good feedback from customer, dealer, and line assembler. That was we had implemented the Japanese quality method - you can’t inspect in quality - you must have your people buy in. Quality sot up, warranty crashed down, and AGCO rose from the ashes of Deutz-Allis.

Then the lawyers and accountants moved in --

 

[AKForest]

This is the latest update on the status of my tractor. On March 5th I was informed that the results of the injector tests indicated that all four had failed. I authorized installing new ones and paid the total bill of $10,027.09. The following week, as I had not heard anything from the dealer and fearing the worst, I called them. They had the injectors, but couldn't install them because they had not come with O-rings. They had been ordered. On March 16th, I was informed that my tractor was ready for pickup. I picked it up on the 22nd and have put it through it's paces and it is running as it was before.

As to why all this happened, Kubota has no idea. The fuel sample that was sent to them for testing has been lost. The dealership resubmitted samples but has not received a response. The Good Will Request submitted by the dealership in early February, (the first step in Kubota's process for assuming some responsibility) was also lost and must be resubmitted by the dealership. The dealership kept the parts that they replaced because Kubota wants to test them further.

Conclusions: Kubota, like most very large companies and the government, moves very slowly and loses things on a regular basis. I am not suggesting that all Kubota products are bad. I have a BX 23, that I have owned for about 20 years, with no mechanical problems. I own a 2006 Kubota side-by-side that I have been very satisfied with. However, I would be quite concerned if I were a L6060 owner or were considering buying one. Something went very wrong with my tractor and cost me a lot of money.

There has been considerable discussion about water or contaminates in the fuel. I have a truck, side-by-side, and small tractor that all use the same fuel without a problem. the L6060 has a more elaborate fuel filtration system and is newer than any of the afore mentioned equipment. Mechanics I have spoken to suspect the ECU. It controls the flow of fuel to the injector pump, the pressure in the rail and the timing and firing of the injectors. It is the only common denominator. Why did it not throw a code? Why did the ECU fail at the same time as the pump and the injectors? Why did all 4 injectors fail at the same time? Certainly, it is in the best interest of Kubota to find the answers but maybe not in their best interest for us know.

 

[Rdrcr]

^^^^
Thanks for the update.
And, I'm glad you have your tractor back and it is performing as expected.

I truly hope that the second fuel samples reach Kubota and you get a favorable decision on your "Good Will Warranty" Claim. I'm pulling for you and would like Kubota to step up and cover your repairs.

Mike

 

[AKForest]

Thanks

 

[JethroB]

^^^^
Thanks for the update.
And, I'm glad you have your tractor back and it is performing as expected.

I truly hope that the second fuel samples reach Kubota and you get a favorable decision on your "Good Will Warranty" Claim. I'm pulling for you and would like Kubota to step up and cover your repairs.

Mike

Same here. I was hoping that no updates from AK meant that Kubota had stepped up and a
no-disclosure was in place. Hang in there.

 

[MoKelly]

Same here. I was hoping that no updates from AK meant that Kubota had stepped up and a
no-disclosure was in place. Hang in there.

If there is a no disclosure and the OP says he has a no disclosure then we will know.

MoKelly

 

[Smokeydog]

Thanks for sharing your experience. The good, bad and ugly. Hope you can gain confidence in the repairs are reliable.

When I visit the local Kubota dealer to pick up parts the owner/salesmen always eager to show me the new models. I ask are they reliable? The answer is “We are selling them!”

 

[5030]

Thanks for sharing your experience. The good, bad and ugly. Hope you can gain confidence in the repairs are reliable.

When I visit the local Kubota dealer to pick up parts the owner/salesmen always eager to show me the new models. I ask are they reliable? The answer is “We are selling them!”

Sounds to me like a non-answer. Selling them and reliability of emissions components are 2 different animals. I still maintain that the end user should not be the tester for emissions reliability issues.

Of course they are selling them. If you want a new (over 25 horsepower unit) you have no choice as they all are T4 compliant and that is all brands, not just Kubota and they are all having issues with reliability. Me, I'll stick with my pre 4 units and take good care of them, which I do. I don't want to be green until 'green' is reliable over the long haul.

 

[5030]

Conclusions: Kubota, like most very large companies and the government, moves very slowly and loses things on a regular basis.

Since Kubota has moved their central operations to the Dallas, Texas area, we have personally noticed a marked decrease in customer relations quality.

Don't know about my dealer's relationship but our personal relationship has went downhill. They have repeatedly 'lost' the payment on the new side by side my wife bought and assessed a late charge (which she won't pay anyway) and you call them and get put on hold forever or they disconnect the call.

Been a Kubota owner / customer for over 25 years and when they were outside Columbus, Ohio (Grove City), customer relations was top notch. Not now.

The bigger they get the more the quality of customer service slides.

 

[gtbensley]

Glad to hear you have your tractor back and its running well at this time. Keep us updated with what Kubota learns about what caused this failure. I know you have a good fuel setup at your home but man does it sound like fuel caused this issue.....besides the ECM bit but reading why they replaced it doesn't actually make me believe it had an issue.

 

[deezler]

10 thousand dollars for 4 injectors installed.... jesus christ. Sorry you had to swallow that one.

ECU as common denominator... interesting. I am struggling to understand what aspect of fuel control the ECU could incorrectly instruct that would lead to mechanical failures, though. The mechanical aspects of the injectors should be able to handle whatever physical pressures and duty cycles the ECU can command. I think.

 

[Muhammad]

Sad and unfortunate to read this outcome. Nobody expects a six year old tractor with 2,400 hours to need a $10,000 engine repair and not only that, one with no explanation. The actual engine block itself is about $7,500 IIRC from another member who had to replace his for a different reason. Especially when you factor in the customer has multiple Kubota products, I really hope Kubota steps up and offers some goodwill on this. If not, it's a very bad look for the brand IMO.

 

[Rdrcr]

^^^^
Many times agreed. I will take the outcome of this situation into consideration on future purchases.

Mike

 

[chevyman29]

Just being completely honest hear but had I read this before I purchased my 4060 I probably would've sucked it up and paid the extra for another jd.

Not that it's any guarantee they're any better. But I have had good service from the 2 I've owned.

 

[MHarryE]

Injectors I can understand because the life you got is at the lower end of what I recall for ours. Losing an ECU and high pressure pump at the same time unusual. However this winter the #1 diesel I’ve been running seems to be worse than in past as measured by fuel economy. That’s tough on the pump and injectors. Of course your fuel. Comes from different refineries than my source. But I remember many years ago hearing from a supplier about changes in fuel and the effect on injector life. I asked the personal question - how will it affect my Kubota? He said Japanese, their fuel is like kerosene, tough on injection system so Japanese design for it.

As to older equipment - I bought my 1680 Case IH combine used. The previous owner gave me the stack of major repair orders completed by the dealer. First major hit was replacing the FIP on the 8.3 Cummins at 800 hours for a $5,000 hit. Third season and Case IH didn’t give him help - it’s an old pre-emissions 1992 model.

 

[Username Taken]

Since Kubota has moved their central operations to the Dallas, Texas area, we have personally noticed a marked decrease in customer relations quality.

Don't know about my dealer's relationship but our personal relationship has went downhill. They have repeatedly 'lost' the payment on the new side by side my wife bought and assessed a late charge (which she won't pay anyway) and you call them and get put on hold forever or they disconnect the call.

Been a Kubota owner / customer for over 25 years and when they were outside Columbus, Ohio (Grove City), customer relations was top notch. Not now.

The bigger they get the more the quality of customer service slides.

My Wife handles all the bills as well.

We found out a long time ago, it's best to use the electronic funds transfer (?) available on your computer. Hit a button..... Paid. Can't lose it and if they do, we have an electronic copy. And it's often free. No postage, no envelopes, no post man t worry about....

Mail-in payments are almost always handled by a 3rd party processing center that probably handles ten other (or more) Banks, Loans, at the same time. The check is read by a computer and it it has trouble, it kicks it out to be hand-read. And sometimes, the wrong people get your payment. The processing center might send it to the machine that handles Ford or Deere or God-Knows-Who. It's just a PO Box and probably in the same building as twenty others.

It's not for everybody and those that don't want to bother setting it up, I can understand

 

[crazyal]

Are the injectors mechanical or electronic? I'm assuming electronic if they suspect the ECU somehow damaging them. I would think that something like a faulty regulator in the alternator could cause something like this (voltage spike) but the ECU? If this was a common problem I'm sure we would have heard others having issues. Too bad you didn't have KTAC to cover it. I think getting anything from Kubota is going to be hard. You've already paid, it's well out of warranty, and with COVID a lot of companies are not running the way they should.

 

[MHarryE]

Are the injectors mechanical or electronic? I'm assuming electronic if they suspect the ECU somehow damaging them. I would think that something like a faulty regulator in the alternator could cause something like this (voltage spike) but the ECU? If this was a common problem I'm sure we would have heard others having issues. Too bad you didn't have KTAC to cover it. I think getting anything from Kubota is going to be hard. You've already paid, it's well out of warranty, and with COVID a lot of companies are not running the way they should.

It’s a common rail system, electronic control, and the most common failure is wear. I was involved field evaluating machines for a different company and despite an early start, we missed our release for production date by 6 months with the primary problem being injector life. They would wear to the point they leaked so much the high pressure pump couldn’t build enough pressure during cranking to reach the point where the electronics would signal injection. Symptoms were running fine one day, shut off and unable to start the next day. Engine Division kept supplying me more injectors that I immediately sent to my test fleet as they failed. Working with our filter supplier, we developed a super filter but unfortunately we couldn’t change the filter head so customers would change using a will-fit filter and in production, I fielded complaints of changing filter and a week later won’t start. Send me a picture of the filter. Always a cheaper filter. The clearances needed to produce the fine fuel particles that burn clean, and efficiently, are a whole different world. It will be interesting to see what Kubota finds here. Engine Division kept sending me injectors so I didn’t need to buy them from my account. I only paid mechanic time to replace so I had no idea what they cost. I have failed injectors sitting at home in my failure collection and had no clue service parts list on them would be $1200 each. Special ceramic coatings to resist wear, self diagnosis and fine tuning, very precision piece of hardware.

 

[goeduck]

We found out a long time ago, it's best to use the electronic funds transfer (?) available on your computer. Hit a button..... Paid. Can't lose it and if they do, we have an electronic copy. And it's often free. No postage, no envelopes, no post man t worry about....

I pay most everything on line, rarely do I write a check. If the place does not have an online link I call to see if they will take a cc over the phone.

 

[AKForest]

I have had many helpful comments from people on this site. Thank you all. Here is the latest information. The fuel tests came back clean. The injector tests came back with all four injectors "stuck closed". The solenoid controlling the injector pump tested as working properly. However, the pump was producing no output. It had failed. Finally, it was discovered that the ECU had failed. All three failed simultaneously. Neither the dealership nor Kubota can give me any explanation as to how or why this could happen. The only explanation that I have heard that made any sense was that the ECU failed in a catastrophic way that took out the pump and injectors with it. The ECU is the only common denominator in this failure. i controls the flow of fuel to the pump, the pressure in the rail by modulating the injector pump solenoid, and controls the timing and opening and closing of the injectors.

Kubota has decided not to assume any responsibility for this failure.

For those of you that own a L6060, I hope for your sake that this was a fluke occurrence and it won't happen to you. Imagine the damage that could occur if the ECU decided to fail in a way that opened an injector when a piston was in the wrong position.

For those of you considering buying an L6060, be warned. This was a $10,027.09 bad experience for me.