Kohler, or Kawi??

[ChuckinNH]

Now this is a way to start a war, though I hope it doesn't! It's my understanding that the Kohler Command engines are a little better on fuel, and the liquid cooled Kawi engines are quieter, but perhaps less fuel efficient. In the Simplicity Legacy XL series there is a choice, though JD has chosen to offer the Kawi engine only in it's X7xx series. Which one would you choose, and why? ( I know that probably diesel engines in either are better??)
Thanks for your input
Chuck

 

[jeffinsgf]

Kohler or Kawi? That's a simple question. The answer is: Yanmar.

 

[ChuckinNH]

Hi Jeff,
I knew that I could count on you to cut through all the clutter! You are right of course, but payback takes a little time....
Chuck

 

[jeffinsgf]

Hi Jeff,
I knew that I could count on you to cut through all the clutter! You are right of course, but payback takes a little time....
Chuck

I see a BX22 in your sig line. Is your situation similar to LBrown's? Looking for something to supplement and reduce implement swaps?

If so, a used X595 (pre-2007 model year, 4wd diesel), X495 (2wd, diesel), or 455 would cost less than a new X7XX or Simplicity and give you years and years of service life. Buy it through a dealer, and you would likely even get some remaining warranty -- depending on model and age. John Deere's MachineFinder is a great way to hunt one down close to home.

 

[ChuckinNH]

Yup, I'm Lbrown's long lost Yankee cousin........ Actually, I have no problem attaching, and detaching both the bh, and loader on my BX, and have done it a few times in the same day on ocassion. It is a very well engineered setup. I have that tractor, and also an older Simplicity Legacy that I mow with. I had the Legacy when a good deal on the BX came my way. The Legacy has been a good rider, and I really like the turbo collector, but I think mine is a Monday, or Friday just before quitting time unit. Nothing major, but little stuff frequently. The Yankee in me would like to have one tractor that was good for everything though experience tells me that I should perhaps separate the tractor stuff from the mowing stuff as you have done. I'm looking to move to something I'm more pleased with on the mowning side, (and I'm not dismissing Simplicity) and perhaps move to something larger on the tractor side...... at least to the 2000 series size though perhaps a different color. I just have to justify it to my "Yankee" conservative mind. BTW Jeff, how is the traction with your 455? My land is a little rugged in spots, and there is the snow thing. Perhaps a diesel 2wd would be better than a gas 4wd for most things.

 

[jeffinsgf]

The only thing that will actually stop my 455 is mud. With the differential lock, I can power through rough terrain pulling just about anything, as long as the surface is dry. The times I have had it stuck in mud, I was trying to push a pile of dirt (mud) almost the full height of the blade. I'm not sure 4wd would have been any help in finishing what I was trying to do. I wallowed around enough that the front end was almost buried. One time I eventually got it out. The other time I had to give it a little pull from the 4410.

If you're going for two, I would suggest 4wd on one, preferably the larger of the two. It might be nice on both. This song may have a new verse after I use the 455 to move snow this winter, but there are one heck of a lot of guys on WFM's forum that use lesser machines than the 455 to deal with a lot more snow than I'll ever see. My used 54" blade came with a set of chains, we'll see how it goes.

 

[Fordlords]

In a choice between the two, I would pick a liquid cooled Kawasaki over the air cooled Kohlers. I am not sure why Kohler's liquid cooled Aegis engine has not showed up on any other tractor that I know of short of a Craftsman GT a few years ago?? Of course cost being no major concern, I'd definitely go Yanmar diesel as first pick

-Fordlords-

 

[ChuckinNH]

Fordlords..... thanks for your input, I know it comes based on experience. The diesel option is looking better for the long term.

 

[shortlid]

Kawi's seem to run better in most situations to any Kohler I have owned. Most commercial mowers have Kawi's not Kohlers.

 

[Volfandt]

A dedicated mower? Why not a ZTR?

I've been noticing alot more Kaw's than Kohler CV Commands in consumer brand machines anymore.
The vertical shaft Command CV's, had a propensity to blow headgaskets a few yrs back and they tended to smoke more at cold startup than I liked. Don't know if these issues were resolved but I've been noticing Kohler Courage's where Commands used to be used. It may be that the Courage is less expensive or the return for repair on the Commands on consumer grade machines hurt.
Don't know but in any case I'd go with an air cooled Kaw over a CV Command.
Course the horizontal shaft Commands are a much different beast (good).

 

[RedDog]

Well I will step up for the Kohler. My Command engine does not have many hours (75), but I can say it is "light" on fuel.

I have a 68 Toro riding tractor with the orginal Kohler still in it. Still does not use any oil and has never been rebuilt.

I'm not sure what year my welder/generator is, but it is Kohler powered also.


I think Kaws are good also, just more money.

I haven't been looking, but I have never seen a liquid cooled Kohler

 

[ChuckinNH]

Both the Simplicity Legacy XL, and JD X7xx series use the horizontal shaft engines. I'm assuming that the Kohler used in the XL is the commercial duty version with the oil cooler. I would think it would be a marketing mistake by Kohler to use the same name for different grade engines though I guess the larger outfits like Sears wanted the name, but at a price point so the Command engine used for them is minus the oil cooler for example. Makes it hard for us to sort out though!
Chuck

The fuel pump on the Kohler command runs directly off the valve stem, and the one in my engine failed at around 200 hrs. The part that failed is a stamped part, and seemed to be defective so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt on that one.