Kohler Engine Oil

[def38]

The oil in air cooled engines can go a long time. No coolant contamination. Long as the carb doesn't flood oil can be near lifetime service. A change doesn't hurt once in a while but there is no magic pixie dust in any of it.

Pixie dust, no, but todays engine oils are full of additives that extend engine life, improve economy, keep deposits at bay and reduce wear. It is widely understood that todays engine oils are head and shoulders above the engine oils of just 10-15 years ago. I have several large displacement gasoline engines that are air cooled and need high spec oils for protection. If I were to avoid oil changes, camshafts, valve actuating gear, timing chains and timing chain tensioners would need early replacement. Also, air cooled engine oils providing a large percentage of the engines cooling. I would deem it bad practice to avoid oil changes at reasonable intervals.

I have a colleague who rides an air cooled BMW boxer twin motorcycle of over 1000 cc displacement. The BMW is 1996 and has well over 500,000 miles on the original engine. He uses Mobil1 synthetic engine oil and changes it regularly.

 

[Frankenkubota]

The Kohler family and their community have interesting history. Kohler Wisconsin was always a nice side trip when you are in the area. If they still have, they have a design center for mainly the plumbing side of things which showcased bath and kitchens and was great place to get ideas.

I've got a number of stories about Kohler. I started school in Oshkosh WI. and my roommates buddy lived there. Probably 2-3 hours from Kohler in the summer, 20 minutes across the lake in the winter. One nite after many beers, leaving Kohler, warming up the car, threw the timing chain on my OHC Pontiac motor, 2am, 2 degrees! One nite in a bar in Kohler we were singing Oklahoma so loud they called the State Patrol to escort us out of town, that was special.

Kohler Co is famous if you read about labor struggles. Kohler is a Co town full of Co houses where the employees lived. Parts of it are like a movie set. They had a labor strike that lasted years and years, lots of hate, it's in the text books.

One victim of the strike was a grandson? named Freddy, Freddy Kohler. He lived in a small apt. in Oshkosh while I went to school. He was sent there by the family to get him out of Kohler. I have no idea what the politically correct terminology is but let's just say Freddy was not right. He would have the cab drivers do all his shopping, sometimes involved 5-6 stops, ALWAYS must have a receipt. His apt looked like something you see on hoarders show, only worse. Never a tip, he had an open account with the cab co.

It was sad. He was so messed up. The story goes.....as he was growing up in Kohler during the strike he became a target. That I do not know for sure but poor Freddy, he was messed up but really just a nice guy. NO TIP!

 

[Sberry]

We are talking about minor hours here. This is like the crowd who uses their tools hard, on their project jeep or camaro. 40 hours a year, it's still running with 500 hours so I know this or that etc. This experience would be different with multiple engines, 250 hrs a year with manual change over 10 years and might have a real baseline but this experience and a little pinch of crap additive doesn't mean much. At these low hours mentioned in these threads it would still be running if it was never changed.
Got one Kohler command I change religiously every 250 or 5 years and it doesn't smoke and still runs the same as it always did. Saw one got changed every 1k, last I saw it had 6500 hours on it.

 

[tibadoe]

.......... I would deem it bad practice to avoid oil changes at reasonable intervals..........

I agree. I piddle with small engines and have seen the insides of some by visual inspection They may have run ok most of the time but internals are gunked up and covered with crud. Then eventually, they start having issues: overheating, erratic running, hard starts, smoking, or they up and die. For the price of new equipment, a few dollar oil/filter change is a small price to pay to keep one running in top notch condition. I guess it helps that I love to service all my small engine apparatus, vehicles, motorcycle, etc.

 

[Sberry]

No one is saying never change but anecdotal experience of 40 hrs a year isn't much. 400 would be a different matter. My neighbor girl breaks out in a panic attack with 5 k on it in her truck, uses synth from Castrol. She was living dangerous extending it from 3500 and changes it 25 times before 100k, craps up some piece in the engine. Puts on a snowmobile suit at 10 degrees in the driveway cause it's getting near time.
I have an engine or 2 is fussy about it, a couple are. Mostly old style with crap intake design. Got a couple I rarely change and 1 I check the oil for first time in 2 or 3 years and will never see another change. In some older tractor engines we pulled samples, 1 we went from 3x a year to every 3 years.
I am not a fan of no change but it's case dependant, bought a van with 100k on the clock, ran it till the chassis was junk at 225 with 3 changes.
Old engines luv this new oil, synthetics were not even a wet dream when they were made. I believe every time one moves a class say from sm to sn requires 2x in friction reduction. We never stop something for oil service anymore, we do it if it needs it when they in for other work. I was changing a welder a while back and pulled the dip to check and got to thinking maybe I change while it was out of the truck, had to find the record wrote on filter, at 415 hrs could read writing on the dipstick, my old van is the same at 15. Got a dodge truck looks dirty in 5 minutes, got a crap pc etc and well due now.

 

[Sberry]

It probably does help if you love it, I hate the routine and love extended change, fuel inj electronic ign. I hated oil change and fuggin points. I remember when we thought people going 5k were living on the edge. Saw a Blackstone report on a newer car was still 20% at 50k. I know a couple used to trade cars at 40 with no service.
I evaluate a car the other day and the difference in poor to excellent was about 600$ so if they fuss over it the last 10 years it would have paid 60 a year.

 

[Sberry]

I get a lot of oil change trouble shooting. No start, change oil. Tie rods falling off, needs tires but change oil every 3k. Had one in the other day, college guy, teacher and brakes ground down to the fins. Said 3 or 4 times, I can't understand why cause I have the oil changed every 3500, can't understand it, just had the oil changed.
Sometimes I think the more people worry about it the less they really know about cars and I don't mean tech but real feel for cars and what stops them. I see all kinds, what's the best? Best wheel bearings and replace everything new on it when it needs a pad, gives a feeling of security I guess but doesn't gain much on a 20 yr old car worth 1k when it ***** a trans and now got bunch of new parts parked under it.
I used to do that crap after I went to auto school but I get over it, when it needs work don't delay and check caliper pins if a guy wants to do some work, change the oil on occasion when it's convenient.

 

[Sberry]

I get a lot of oil change trouble shooting. No start, change oil. Tie rods falling off, needs tires but change oil every 3k. Had one in the other day, college guy, teacher and brakes ground down to the fins. Said 3 or 4 times, I can't understand why cause I have the oil changed every 3500, can't understand it, just had the oil changed.
Sometimes I think the more people worry about it the less they really know about cars and I don't mean tech but real feel for cars and what stops them. I see all kinds, what's the best? Best wheel bearings and replace everything new on it when it needs a pad, gives a feeling of security I guess but doesn't gain much on a 20 yr old car worth 1k when it ***** a trans and now got bunch of new parts parked under it.
I used to do that crap after I went to auto school but I get over it, when it needs work don't delay and check caliper pins if a guy wants to do some work, change the oil on occasion when it's convenient.

 

[RandyT]

Kohler sent a email to their dealers last week announcing the new oil change service kits. Contains a extended life oil filter and full synthetic 10w50 oil that extends oil changes to 300 hours.

 

[tomplum]

It looks like they upgraded the Pro filters with this and use Amsoil for their oil. Probably with added pixie dust...

 

[IH3444]

Have 2 Scotts 2554 with the Kohler 25hp engines. Both 1997 models. Did head gaskets on both. Mobil 1 15w-50 since owning them. M1 15w-50 has the added ZDDP from the factory for older American V8 engines with flat tappet camshafts, like our Kohler engines.

 

[Sberry]

I know a guy with one in a Trailblazer, says guys like him running them with synthetics at 250 hrs or so. He said his got 800 hrs in a year. Lots of them running mowers in that range in fleets and running the equipment in the ground they are in. I have a couple, use T6 and use Mobil 1 for a while at 50 hrs a year I make 5 on a change.

 

[IH3444]

If the cost of a few quarts of Mobil 1 is going to break your bank, by all means, leave it in the engine for 10 years. I've been to dealer friends and seen what happen to high end Audi cars that the customers never change their oil for 28,000 miles. it isn't pretty.

 

[Sberry]

But it isn't a high end Audi. It's a Kohler been ran by the thousands for decades on 250 changes. It's not the cost, it's a question if the obsessive worry has any value. Are the assumptions correct or are they simply supposition or speculation.
There are some particular engines hard on the oil, this is true. But in comparison to most modern engines it indicates a fault with a system or design.

 

[tibadoe]

Think I will stick with my annual OC's.

 

[tomplum]

Oil threads tend to generate excitement. Or controversy. I really don't see quality of lube issues in OPE. Maintenance does have its place. Annually seems to be the correct answer. I've told folks with the low usage if they go 2 years, they won't hurt a thing. 300 hours on the same oil and same filter. Seems doable. Timewise, I wonder what will come down the pipe. How long will really be too long?

 

[Sberry]

Samples is the only way to tell but somewhere in the 1000 hour range most likely depending on engine condition. An annual change doesnt hurt but think if may be just a warm feeling. Some of my point with this is 800 hours over 15 years is different than 800 a year. The oil doesnt look at a calendar and just decide to give it up. It doesnt have feelings. At the low rates it would still be running at 15 with no change as long as it wasnt ran low.
I see a used car just came from the dealer, may be 4 or 5 years old, not sure what year b8ut they said 40K oil change.
One of the biggest things oil service does is force a look over for the rest of the unit. A huge benifit of modern oil is the extension of changes. Its one of them in addition to being way better than oil of old. New oil is better never or rarely changed than oil changed once a week 30 years ago.

 

[tomplum]

"One of the biggest things oil service does is force a look over for the rest of the unit." True statement Sberry. Or at least should be a true statement. That's one of my beefs with the Deere 30 second oil change. I don't really know how far the never needs oil change marketing trend will go in other OPE either. In the cheapo walk behinds, they figure they can get away with it with the low life expectancy.

 

[Sberry]

Shure. A no change walk behind is disposable, cheaper and easier than taking care of it. Doesnt mean they cant be changed either. I am not advocating no change but simply being realistic about the actual vs the perception of value. My plow truck is on the same oil 5 years and will never be changed. Been changed once while in that service since it was removed from regular service. I am on some of the original steering parts on severe brutal roads as I rolled under the front and gave then a pinch of grease on a regular basis, when the truck was new grease 2x between lof. Back then we were on 6k oil and 3 grease. Sometimes sooner with the seasons. Put all new U joints in the thing at 40 and none in the next 150 and still good today. Same with ball joints. Had the little brake adj cables break and we started giving them a shot of penetrating spray to the cables and never again had a fail.

 

[Sberry]

Its more of a philosophy so to speak and from long history with the same cars, trucks and equipment. Seems its less of a contributing factor to wear and life than it used to be, its simpler with the factory reccomendations with a bit of tailor for climate and its a blessing it runs so much longer we can concentrate on other basic maintenance vs being obsessed with the oil. The same old stuff runs fine today seems to start the same way it did yesterday and now the decades before it and even some better. We think some use of 15/40 might not have been good idea in new FI and we dont use it, its simple enough to get a jug of correct oil and dont even bother with bulk for small fleet, simply follow a little sale and can even plan some changes.
We worry about oil less and less as it goes on.