Oil & Fuel Kohler Command 20-no gas flow??

[wldlif7]

All,

I have a Cub w/ a Kohler Command 20 engine and for some reason the gas is not flowing. Here's what I have checked. By the way I have not started in several months, had gas in it, but when I started it for the first time this morn, it did start right off and then died and the only way I could get it to act like it would start is dribble a little engine starting fluid in the carb and then it would fire up for a few seconds. Could see the fuel line going into the top of the carb and no fuel flowing at all from it. Choke has been on and off with full throttle and not full throttle and many combination's in between.

- Blew out the fuel lines
- made sure the gas would flow thru the filter, (the old fashioned way, gas still tastes bad)
- took the unit where the actuated vacuum right ofter the filter off.
- I moved the unit in and out and there seemed to be suction on the far side of the fule filter
-plenty of gas in tank, no floaters in tank

Could the actuator just be bad in the vacuum unit and not be easily detected?

Kind of lost right now and have not started replacing parts yet, going to start when I find a place to buy some of the parts for the Engine, should be plentiful since the factory is 4 miles from my house where they build these things.

Any thoughts or input would be appreciated
Dave

 

[J_J]

Does your Kohler have a solenoid on the bottom of the bowl? Is there any water in the bowl? If you do have a solenoid in the bottom of the bowl, unplug the wire going to the solenoid. unscrew the solenoid and clean it out good. That is actually a fuel shutoff, but if clogged, little, or no fuel will pass on to the jets. . To test the solenoid, put 12v to the wire and ground the solenoid, and it should click. Even with the fuel filter, I have had to take the solenoid off many times and clean it. Water is the other main problem. Drain or siphon the water out. I have used the 18, 20, 22, 25 HP engines for a good while on my Dixie Choppers.

 

[diesel_nut]

Went thru this on another site.
Does it has gas in it?

 

[wldlif7]

Noted above

-plenty of gas in tank, no floaters in tank

 

[J_J]

Make sure the gas cap is venting, not clogged up, find the vent hole and check for sure.

After trying to start or run the engine, pull the fuel bowl and tell us what you find.

 

[diesel_nut]

Just a little water in the bowl will stop things up. Been there done that.

 

[wldlif7]

More of what I have found so far:
no fuel is even getting to the filter. Checked the fuel pump and it seems to be functioning, but then again I am not sure how much suction it should have. When moving the arm in and out by pushing on it there seems to be some suction on the down side of the filter. Going to remove filter and check suction on pump side of filter by turning over without filter connected. I can blow thru the filter from both sides w/o any restriction so would not think filter is problem but still need to eliminate that.

When removing the hose from the gas tank side of the filter there is no indication of fuel even entering the filter at all.

Maybe fuel pump? I found a crack in the hose before the filter and cut that section out thinking it was a pressure leak possibility.

I have not gotten to the carb yet to start removing things there. Focusing on the fuel pump, just does not seem right no gas in filter.

I appreciate everyone's input and helping ideas! Helps to have other brainwaves that have delt with these issues.

 

[CCinCT]

You didn't say if you've checked the gas cap vent hole yet. Might want to give that a look if you haven't already.

 

[wldlif7]

Just checked the gas cap vent hole and blew it out. Well, the thing did start after that for a few min, but a few min only. Going to blow it out again and try it again.

Took the filter all the way out and checked the fuel pump suction and seems to be good suction w/o the filter and putting the filter back in-line reduces the suction over 50%. Can't believe I can blow thru and still not be adequate, but maybe so. Also, can't believe all of this and it ends up being the easiest of the fixes. Going to try and find a filter today and replace anyhow. Has 107hrs on it and never had been replaced.

I will update after replacing the filter, still can't believe it's just that.

Thanks All!

 

[diesel_nut]

Take gas cap OFF and see how long it runs(if gas tank not full to where it would slosh all over).

 

[wldlif7]

Back to the point of not wanting to start again.

With cap on or with cap off gas tank. Blew out vent again no help. Put a tube in place of filter to see if gas would as least draw into the tube, no gas in tube. Blew thru tube back into gas tank and can hear air escape from gas line and cap vent. No obstructions.


Back to drawing board again.

 

[7254t]

When you turn the key on the on position do you hear the fuel soliniod click on?

 

[wldlif7]

No the solenoid is not making any sound at all. I did not check it like J_J had mentioned earlier, but will take apart and clean like he suggested and see if that will help.

Thanks to ALL!!

 

[wldlif7]

Solenoid good, it is clicking, I can feel it when I put power to it.

Still won't start, thinking about hanging it up for today until I can get a new fuel filter and rule that out also.

Just weird that it did start this morning and ran for a few min and then died and won't start again, acting just like it did yesterday morn; started right off the bat, ran for a few min and dies. Won't start again after that.

Think I will get the filter tomorrow and continue trying by process of elimination.


Thanks again for everyone's input!!

Dave

 

[wldlif7]

Make sure the gas cap is venting, not clogged up, find the vent hole and check for sure.

After trying to start or run the engine, pull the fuel bowl and tell us what you find.

J_J,

This may sound dumb; not sure what you mean when you say fuel bowl? There is the solenoid in the side of the carb,

Thanks,
Dave

 

[J_J]

J_J,

This may sound dumb; not sure what you mean when you say fuel bowl? There is the solenoid in the side of the carb,

Thanks,
Dave

The fuel bowl on the bottom of the carb, where the float is, although some systems have a glass bowl assemble next to the fuel outlet and may have a fuel shutoff. . . Is your gas tank higher than the carb? Some have a separate shut off valve in line? Is there a chunk of rust over the fuel outlet on the tank. Some of the tanks have a riser in the tank with a mesh filter on it. Look inside with a flashlight and check the condition of the tank.

The solenoid I am referring to is located on the bottom of the bowl, and when you unscrew it the bowl comes off, water and fuel will also come out You have a solenoid, or a nut that holds the bowl on the carb. You may have to take off the carb and unscrew the main jet and clean it out with a small wire. After you replace the filter, and hook up all the hoses, take off the plug wires, and with the bowl still off, and the float hanging down, turn the starter over for about 20 sec. If the fuel pump is working, you will see fuel coming out of the needle valve area. Push up on the float and see if the fuel stops. If all this is good, and you have cleaned the main jet, pinch off the fuel line, and replace the fuel bowl, then un pinch the fuel line.. Then put the plug wires back on, and try to start, with choke on, and when it starts to run, push the choke in part way. After it is running good, push the choke all the way in. I am not saying that what I have said will fix your problem, but I have done these things many many times, over 16 years. My first thoughts if an engine will not start, is to check for water in the gas, then spark.

 

[J_J]

This is the service manual for the 20 HP Kohler horizontal engine. Go down to the fuel section, and it will explain and show pictures of what you need to do. Two fuel pumps are made for that engine, a mechanical pump, and a pulse type fuel pump. Your fuel solenoid is on the side.

Look around pages 40 of 232 for the carb stuff.

If you have the vertical engine, use the Kohler site and select the CV-20 vertical service manual.

 

[dqdave1]

Is battery good; what is the voltage reading on battery? Must have good battery to start and run. Disconnect fuel line from carb; put a temporary line on carb that is approx. 12" higher than the engine; put a funnel in line and hold it above engine and fill with gas; will it run on gravity feed?

 

[diesel_nut]

Checked for water in carb?

 

[wldlif7]

The fuel bowl on the bottom of the carb, where the float is, although some systems have a glass bowl assemble next to the fuel outlet and may have a fuel shutoff. . . Is your gas tank higher than the carb? Some have a separate shut off valve in line? Is there a chunk of rust over the fuel outlet on the tank. Some of the tanks have a riser in the tank with a mesh filter on it. Look inside with a flashlight and check the condition of the tank.

The solenoid I am referring to is located on the bottom of the bowl, and when you unscrew it the bowl comes off, water and fuel will also come out You have a solenoid, or a nut that holds the bowl on the carb. You may have to take off the carb and unscrew the main jet and clean it out with a small wire. After you replace the filter, and hook up all the hoses, take off the plug wires, and with the bowl still off, and the float hanging down, turn the starter over for about 20 sec. If the fuel pump is working, you will see fuel coming out of the needle valve area. Push up on the float and see if the fuel stops. If all this is good, and you have cleaned the main jet, pinch off the fuel line, and replace the fuel bowl, then un pinch the fuel line.. Then put the plug wires back on, and try to start, with choke on, and when it starts to run, push the choke in part way. After it is running good, push the choke all the way in. I am not saying that what I have said will fix your problem, but I have done these things many many times, over 16 years. My first thoughts if an engine will not start, is to check for water in the gas, then spark.

Thanks J_J.
When I think of fuel bowls, I am used to the old glass fuel bowls. I have the service manual now and will be working on tomorrow night! I understand everything I need to do, appreciate your input. I will update after I work on Monday night.