Kioti resale value

[kiotiken]

... anyhow, here's what he said:

Kioti under-rated this engine because it needed to fit into a certain "class" for smog/economy issues. They will also be retiring the CK27 soon, because it doesn't fit the model.

I can't say as I've never heard this, but I would be suspicious of this claim, especially from a dealer trying to sell me one! I will say that hp is a big selling point for some, but doesn't always mean much at all. For example, my JD 955 was rated at 33hp BUT, they got that rating at 3200 RPM! In reality, it should have been rated between 28 - 30 hp (as a guess) at 2500 RPM, but even that didn't matter since it was sooooooo light, it would spin all tires going into a dirt pile on any surface, it was just too light for the hp.

Second, they just retired the CK25 for emission issues, are you sure they're doing the same with the CK27? With the introduction of the SCUT line, my guess is that they will have the SCUT platform, retire the CK20 and have a standard platform CK line (CK27/30/35). Again, just a guess, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the CK20, it's now just between two lines, much like the DK35 was. I could also see them swinging the axe at either the CK27 or 30 since they really are too close in specs. That would make the Kioti section of TBN a more civil environment, those two cause a lot of arguments:laughing:

 

[TSO]

I can't say as I've never heard this, but I would be suspicious of this claim, especially from a dealer trying to sell me one! I will say that hp is a big selling point for some, but doesn't always mean much at all. For example, my JD 955 was rated at 33hp BUT, they got that rating at 3200 RPM! In reality, it should have been rated between 28 - 30 hp (as a guess) at 2500 RPM, but even that didn't matter since it was sooooooo light, it would spin all tires going into a dirt pile on any surface, it was just too light for the hp.

Second, they just retired the CK25 for emission issues, are you sure they're doing the same with the CK27? With the introduction of the SCUT line, my guess is that they will have the SCUT platform, retire the CK20 and have a standard platform CK line (CK27/30/35). Again, just a guess, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the CK20, it's now just between two lines, much like the DK35 was. I could also see them swinging the axe at either the CK27 or 30 since they really are too close in specs. That would make the Kioti section of TBN a more civil environment, those two cause a lot of arguments:laughing:

Well, I didn't hook him up to the polygraph instrument (lie detector) during the interrogation LOL.... I'm positive he said the CK27, and he also said it wouldn't be a big loss because the CK30 is so close to the 27.

And, it would make sense though (about the HP rating being low) ... My buddy has an '11 Kubota B2920; it's nearly identical in size & specs, his has 29hp, mine is heavier and lifts the same or more... both (from the spec sheets I've seen online) are rated to do & pull nearly identical amounts.

I'm sure the DaeDong diesel is a good motor, but I doubt it's THAT good that you can give it 25% less output and have it do the same work :confused2:

 

[IslandTractor]

Second, they just retired the CK25 for emission issues, are you sure they're doing the same with the CK27? With the introduction of the SCUT line, my guess is that they will have the SCUT platform, retire the CK20 and have a standard platform CK line (CK27/30/35). Again, just a guess, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the CK20, it's now just between two lines, much like the DK35 was. I could also see them swinging the axe at either the CK27 or 30 since they really are too close in specs. That would make the Kioti section of TBN a more civil environment, those two cause a lot of arguments:laughing:

My guess on Kioti's future line up under 50hp: 1) SCUT, 2) CK20 body/size with upgraded 25hp engine and 3 range HST; 3) CK 30 or 35, maybe both; 4) DK35 (only if CK35 ditched); 5) DK45 (same trim as current 40/45/50) and 6) a deluxe DK50 with ?extra gizmos to justify $3K extra.

Of course what will really happen depends on what Kubota does as that is clearly Kioti's marketing target. It will be interesting to see what Kubota does now that Kioti is much better established and even drawing away some of Kubota's established customers. Currently Kubota really has an edge only with the new generation HST which is a nice feature but hardly a critical one. They will market the heck out of that to distract from Kioti's price point, warranty and loader advantages.

Currently Kubota has a problem in that there is basically zero reason to buy a non grand L version from them when comparing to the Kioti DK line. The basic L tractors are fine machines but cost essentially the same as equivalent HP Kioti DK models that have many many more deluxe features as well as the loader and warranty benefits. As noted the grand L has the fancy transmission but I presume Kioti will come out with a similar next generation HST in a few years and even the transmission is unlikely to stop Kioti's poaching of Kubota customers who value the loader specs and price point more.

Kubota's B lineup is with a couple of exceptions more barebones than the CK at the same HP but as those are sold largely with lawn mowing tasks in mind I don't see Kioti making bigger inroads than they already have. If I wanted to mow my suburban lawn as the primary tractor use I would own one rather than a heavier Kioti. For a beefy small CUT however the Kioti CK line up compares very favorably with the B range.

Still too early to see how Kioti does with their SCUT. The BX and JD equivalents have a very well established market that Massey and others have nibbled at but not broken. I would guess that the SCUT buyers tend to be first time buyers so would more likely look at just Kubota and JD before purchasing. Be interesting to see if Kioti does a better job than some of the other SCUT makers in breaking that marketing stranglehold. They did it with larger CUTs but that was largely selling to risk takers and tractor nuts. We'll have to see if they can do as well with the suburbanite BX crowd.

 

[kiotiken]

My guess on Kioti's future line up under 50hp: 1) SCUT, 2) CK20 body/size with upgraded 25hp engine and 3 range HST; 3) CK 30 or 35, maybe both; 4) DK35 (only if CK35 ditched); 5) DK45 (same trim as current 40/45/50) and 6) a deluxe DK50 with ?extra gizmos to justify $3K extra.

Of course what will really happen depends on what Kubota does ...

IT, interesting points and I think you're right, a lot will depend on Kubota. I do disagree on the CK20 and DK35. First, the DK35 has already been axed, so it's pretty doubtful they're planning on having it in the line up in the future. Like the DK35, the CK20 is a one off frame size (yes I know the DK35 was a similar frame size to the rest of the DK's, but the axle and FEL are different). It's easier to manufacture the exact same tractor and plunk a different size engine in it at the end of the line. Parts are interchangeable so you don't need to have inventories of different parts. It just makes sense to have 3 frame sizes, the SCUT, the CK27/30/35 and the DK40/45/50. I'm just not convinced all hp versions need to be kept.

I'm a little surprised the new RX line (I'm pretty sure an entire line is on the way) didn't have an HST to compete with Kubota's HST+. I'm looking forward to that, I think it would be great to have, but not great enough to spend the extra $$$$ on the Grand L.

 

[IslandTractor]

IT, interesting points and I think you're right, a lot will depend on Kubota. I do disagree on the CK20 and DK35. First, the DK35 has already been axed, so it's pretty doubtful they're planning on having it in the line up in the future. Like the DK35, the CK20 is a one off frame size (yes I know the DK35 was a similar frame size to the rest of the DK's, but the axle and FEL are different). It's easier to manufacture the exact same tractor and plunk a different size engine in it at the end of the line. Parts are interchangeable so you don't need to have inventories of different parts. It just makes sense to have 3 frame sizes, the SCUT, the CK27/30/35 and the DK40/45/50. I'm just not convinced all hp versions need to be kept.

I'm a little surprised the new RS line (I'm pretty sure an entire line is on the way) didn't have an HST to compete with Kubota's HST+. I'm looking forward to that, I think it would be great to have, but not great enough to spend the extra $$$$ on the Grand L.

I hadn't heard they were ditching the DK35 but it makes sense I guess given the popularity of the CK35 and the manufacturing cost differential (small) with the rest of the DK lineup.

I am more than somewhat partial to the CK20 so perhaps I am blinded but I see a real difference that makes for a nice niche between the SCUT and the CK30 family. The CK20 is significantly more compact than the CK30 and yet it has much more heft and loader than the SCUT. SCUTs don't belong in the woods as they don't have the ground clearance, the CK20 thrives there. SCUTs are really not for ground engaging tasks and again the CK20 excels there with its weight. The only things the CK20 needs to become a bigger player are a few more HP to get it up to 25 for marketing purposes and a three range HST to cancel the advantage that the B series has. There is no tractor of that size with the loader capacity and ground engaging abilities of the CK at least in the JD, NH and Kubota line up.

 

[kiotiken]

I hadn't heard they were ditching the DK35 but it makes sense I guess given the popularity of the CK35 and the manufacturing cost differential (small) with the rest of the DK lineup.

I am more than somewhat partial to the CK20 so perhaps I am blinded but I see a real difference that makes for a nice niche between the SCUT and the CK30 family. The CK20 is significantly more compact than the CK30 and yet it has much more heft and loader than the SCUT. SCUTs don't belong in the woods as they don't have the ground clearance, the CK20 thrives there. SCUTs are really not for ground engaging tasks and again the CK20 excels there with its weight. The only things the CK20 needs to become a bigger player are a few more HP to get it up to 25 for marketing purposes and a three range HST to cancel the advantage that the B series has. There is no tractor of that size with the loader capacity and ground engaging abilities of the CK at least in the JD, NH and Kubota line up.

Yup, dealers have already received the last of their DK35's, I happened to be talking to my dealer when they got their last ones in and he sounded like he as going to cry!

I agree with you about the CK20, and my guess has nothing to do with thinking it isn't a great tractor that's leaps and bounds above the competition. I was a little surprised to see the new SCUT from Kioti, and the first thing I thought was the CK20 is now the odd duck out. I probably just have too much time to think and need a second hobby!

 

[TSO]

Don't forget that the Bobcat (ct20 I believe) is also a ck20... from what I've seen, Bobcat is marketing that tractor heavily, so I can't see Kioti removing it from their line anytime soon.
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EDIT: Just remembered, Bobcat's is called the CT122 :confused3:

 

[kiotiken]

Don't forget that the Bobcat (ct20 I believe) is also a ck20... from what I've seen, Bobcat is marketing that tractor heavily, so I can't see Kioti removing it from their line anytime soon.
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EDIT: Just remembered, Bobcat's is called the CT122 :confused3:

True, but nothing will probably change until any new SCUTs are on the market and sales are known. That'll probably take a few years.

 

[jpm1]

2nd reason, I mainly only used the front end loader. Didn't really use the rear of the tractor lately.

I'm puzzled :confused2: You didn't use the rear of your tractor? I have used a tractor for 48 years now and would like to know how this is done. This will save me a lot of money. Please inform me . . .John

 

[RedDog]

I'm puzzled :confused2: You didn't use the rear of your tractor? I have used a tractor for 48 years now and would like to know how this is done. This will save me a lot of money. Please inform me . . .John

John,
The key word was LATELY. In the beginning I used a 12' bush hog on my parents vacant land. They since sold it, and I sold the Bush hog. I mowed my property with a 7' landpride finish mower, but then sold it in favor of a zero turn. I also did some box blade and grader blade work with my tractor. Finished that up and sold the blades.

So basically I was only using the loader on the tractor now. I want to get into my woods a little more now, and the tractor was pretty large to do that, plus I was **** about scratching it all up. The compact track loader that I purchased is a much smaller physical size than my tractor was, but more powerful.