Buying Advice Kioti NX or RX and horsepower needed

[Coyote machine]

Coyote,

What do you think of scag cheetah 72 inch commercial zero turn? or the JD Z970R 72 inch?

I am trying to choose between the two, again...5 level again with small bumps (can easily adjust deck to avoid scalping). No mulching kit as it eats up hp.

those two machine sell around 13,000. Speed is key for me, I am not looking for a perfect mow...just once a week quick around 6-8 mph...

Love to get your opinion

thank you

The Scag purchase happened around the same time as my first Kioti purchase, and once again I did NOT do the necessary research to determine best use piece of equipment. I was doing a huge house remodel/renovation had 2 kids in grade school and a couple of other properties out of state; summer home, and adjacent Custom's House. My plate was full, and all I knew was everyone with a landscape business had trailers full of Scag equipment. I bought my Wildcat for $8k with 200 hours on it. I was told it sold at retail for $13K new. I quickly jumped to buy it from my then lawn guy who was going back to Deeres, since he seemed to like them better.
I now have 375 hours on the machine since 2010 or thereabout. Not a lot of hours considering how many acres of land, all most hilly, sloped around ponds, trees, gardens etc.
I've lost it on the Scag on numerous occasions, while going uphill on damp/wet grass it will just break away and go in whatever direction where there is a big tree looming in front of me.
It's completely scary,and I ALWAYS have the ROPS fully up. And my seatbelt on when doing any work near my ponds etc.

I can't comment on the Deere mowers/ZTs, and I am only familiar with the Cheetah and Tiger Scags by having seem them out and about.
I can say that Exmark and Ferris seem to be very competitive in the pro mower category. In fact I noted yesterday that MIE is a Ferris dealer, so again when you speak to Bob about a ripper tooth for your hoe you might be wise to ask him about his opinion of the Ferris line vs. Scag/Deere, Exmark etc.

Sorry I can't give more useful info on Scag's current lineup; and thanks for the tip on the blades; but my problem isn't really one of to bag or not to bag; it's one of traction and near death, life flashing before my eyes, out of control random direction seeking machine that's virtually unstoppable once it decides it's going rogue!?:shocked:

Granted, if I had searched thoroughly prior to eyes wide as saucers at the prospect of getting a 61" deck commercial grade mower, I might have determined it wasn't really suited to my terrain. But, at the time I was slammed and thought that since all the landscapers were using them they must be the gold standard. Don't get me wrong the Wildcat is a great train, and bulletproof, but under the wrong conditions it can be a scary bronco ride on the way to the emergency room if one doesn't exercise extreme caution. Maybe the WILD part of Wildcat is the most apt name for it!

 

[IslandTractor]

can the backhoe KB2485 dig through asphalt driveway? the drainage pipe will have to go through driveway.

Thank you

Yes you can dig through asphalt but you really don't want to do that without cutting the margins of the trench first. You need a clean cut so you end up with a neat patch. Just digging with the BH will give you a raggedy azz look. Watch how the pros do it with a jackhammer.

 

[IslandTractor]

righht now, i have JD X734 with 54 inch deck...takes forever 3 hours to mow 5 acres. X734 can go up to 8 mph.

hoping to cut time down to 1.5 hours with the 72 inch deck...nice thing about X970R is the push button to lift deck to avoid scalping or objects

My advice: take a step back before trying to get a dragster mower. You are trying to force a square peg into a round hole. If you don't care about a perfect cut then just mow half of the land every week or less. Spend 1.5hrs mowing each week and then stop. If you care about the cut and don't seem to have any trouble with money then hire it out. Hey, do what I do and declare 80% of the ten acres to be a meadow and then plant wildflowers. You only need to mow meadow once or twice a year to keep it healthy and control weeds.

Trying to buy equipment to mow ten acres in 90 minutes is frankly nuts when you have had zero experience running those machines. Would you give your 16yo a McLaren super car so he could learn to drive? Take a step back and find a better solution.

 

[trctorfan17]

My advice: take a step back before trying to get a dragster mower. You are trying to force a square peg into a round hole. If you don't care about a perfect cut then just mow half of the land every week or less. Spend 1.5hrs mowing each week and then stop. If you care about the cut and don't seem to have any trouble with money then hire it out. Hey, do what I do and declare 80% of the ten acres to be a meadow and then plant wildflowers. You only need to mow meadow once or twice a year to keep it healthy and control weeds.

Trying to buy equipment to mow ten acres in 90 minutes is frankly nuts when you have had zero experience running those machines. Would you give your 16yo a McLaren super car so he could learn to drive? Take a step back and find a better solution.

Oh no, I don't like meadow. I have to mow the whole yard every week.

I thought if I mow at a faster speed than normal, I would still cut grass but not a truly clean cut.

The big problem with zero turn is the rough ride even with suspension seats and tweel airless tires.

 

[IslandTractor]

Oh no, I don't like meadow. I have to mow the whole yard every week.

I thought if I mow at a faster speed than normal, I would still cut grass but not a truly clean cut.

The big problem with zero turn is the rough ride even with suspension seats and tweel airless tires.

Hire a professional to do it. You are just going to waste money and perhaps injure yourself trying to set a mowing speed record. Seriously, hire it out.

 

[trctorfan17]

I will have to think about that.

I was going to sell my 2015 riding mower before buying the zero turn anyway...after all, it only has 85 hours on it. I really didn't have much time to mow in the last two years.

Thank you for the advice IT.

 

[thorholt]

I have the RX6010, It will definitely do what you want to do, I do not have a backhoe for mine but I have dug a few 2' deep ditches using this.
RBT4 Series Rear Blades | Land Pride
I could have went deeper no problem but you will need space on both sides of the ditch to temporarily put the spoil from the ditching, keep pulling the spoil away after every other pass, I got all the hydraulic cylinders on the blade and also the rear gauge wheel, It was impossible to dig accurately without the gauge wheel, My RX has 3 remotes in the rear which is necessary for this application.
That being said, I have to use fwd to pull this blade, a smaller, lighter tractor would struggle doing what I have been doing with it, my previous tractor was a Massey 39 HP tractor.
Good luck with your project!

 

[trctorfan17]

I have the RX6010, It will definitely do what you want to do, I do not have a backhoe for mine but I have dug a few 2' deep ditches using this.
RBT4 Series Rear Blades | Land Pride
I could have went deeper no problem but you will need space on both sides of the ditch to temporarily put the spoil from the ditching, keep pulling the spoil away after every other pass, I got all the hydraulic cylinders on the blade and also the rear gauge wheel, It was impossible to dig accurately without the gauge wheel, My RX has 3 remotes in the rear which is necessary for this application.
That being said, I have to use fwd to pull this blade, a smaller, lighter tractor would struggle doing what I have been doing with it, my previous tractor was a Massey 39 HP tractor.
Good luck with your project!

Great idea...thank you very much.

It is very tempting, and gives me a reason to get the RX7320...instead of a backhoe, i like that.

So, this blade new would cost around 3,500...that is half the price of the backhoe and I can also use it for grading, nice!

And I think this should be much easier to operate, compared to the backhoe...

Coyote & IT: what do you think guys? do i have your blessing?

 

[IslandTractor]

Great idea...thank you very much.

It is very tempting, and gives me a reason to get the RX7320...instead of a backhoe, i like that.

So, this blade new would cost around 3,500...that is half the price of the backhoe and I can also use it for grading, nice!

And I think this should be much easier to operate, compared to the backhoe...

Coyote & IT: what do you think guys? do i have your blessing?

No. Frankly this whole thing is getting to be ridiculous. You could do the project with a SCUT!!!! You don't have the experience to jump into a utility tractor. Rent a small TLB to do the work or just get a local farmer to do the digging for you. It is just absurd to buy a $40,000 tractor to dig a trench. And, you are in the northeast not the Great Plains. We have rocky soil and using a back blade to dig a trench is not a simple matter.

I'm sorry to be mean but you have a severe case of gear acquisition syndrome and are just not behaving rationally. You've never operated a tractor before. Take 10-20% of the budget you would spend on purchase of tractor and implements and just hire a landscaping company. The work will be done in 2-3 days. Then hire them to keep it all mown and spend your weekends relaxing. Seriously.

 

[Coyote machine]

No. Frankly this whole thing is getting to be ridiculous. You could do the project with a SCUT!!!! You don't have the experience to jump into a utility tractor. Rent a small TLB to do the work or just get a local farmer to do the digging for you. It is just absurd to buy a $40,000 tractor to dig a trench. And, you are in the northeast not the Great Plains. We have rocky soil and using a back blade to dig a trench is not a simple matter.

I'm sorry to be mean but you have a severe case of gear acquisition syndrome and are just not behaving rationally. You've never operated a tractor before. Take 10-20% of the budget you would spend on purchase of tractor and implements and just hire a landscaping company. The work will be done in 2-3 days. Then hire them to keep it all mown and spend your weekends relaxing. Seriously.

What he said ^^^^^^
Seriously, we've given you tons of what I'd consider to be very specific good advice and you just don't seem to be getting it on most levels. Enough with the not really paying attention questions. Your statement about not being able to stand a meadow and having to cut every week is just one of the indicators you would be way better off spending your $$$$ on hiring pros to do all the jobs once and right. Then kick back. If you eventually buy another place then do it all over again; hire out, sit back and watch those who know what they're doing do.
I could have saved a ton of money buying an excavator and doing most of the work I described earlier, BUT time is time, (not as is commonly thought money); time is all any of us have, and how one spends it says a lot about one's overall quality of life.
I chose NOT to spend huge amounts of my time doing things I could get done with other's bought labor/expertease.

 

[thorholt]

Yes, it would be much cheaper to hire it done, But if he is the same as me, I have a fairly high stress job and my days off spent in the tractor are better then sitting on the beach to me.
It seems as money isn't the object, he want's to do it himself, I was just giving him some info to do that.

 

[IslandTractor]

Yes, it would be much cheaper to hire it done, But if he is the same as me, I have a fairly high stress job and my days off spent in the tractor are better then sitting on the beach to me.
It seems as money isn't the object, he want's to do it himself, I was just giving him some info to do that.

Many of us feel the same way. However that type of tractor recreation is not compatible with mowing ten acres in ninety minutes and for most of us doesn't start off with a big landscaping project that needs to be done quickly even though we'd never operated any tractor before. The OP seems a bit impulsive and would benefit by sitting on his wallet for a while and take time to contemplate the issues. In the meantime he could get a few estimates for getting the work done professionally.

 

[cat fever]

I have been keeping up with most of this thread, here's my :2cents:

CM and IT have given great advice, I understand Thorholt's opinion also. If the OP would have extended use for the equipment then I would say go for it and get the RX series tractor. So far I haven't read that future needs are a must. Buying new and doing the work with the intent of selling is just giving away a boatload of money. Based on what I've read, I agree that the OP should just hire the work out unless he has future long term use of the equipment.

 

[trctorfan17]

Coyote & IT, thank you very much for all the advice you’ve given. I knew you’d veto thorholt’s idea, but I truly appreciate everything I learned from you just on this thread alone.

And thank you Lynn.

IT: you said outsourcing would cost me 10-20% of 40,000…that is 4,000 - 8,000.

There are 3 immediate projects: drainage 1,000 feet, grading 3 level acres, and fencing 1,600 feet.

Frankly, and based on some estimates I got and outsourcing I did for this property, it is impossible for the 8,000 to cover any one of those three projects…and I am not counting material, just labor and their equipment.

Do you want to make a guess how much I spent to cut 120 trees, haul them away, and grind stumps…all in 10 days?

 

[trctorfan17]

I also have to admit, I am not trying to save money doing it myself because it will probably take me longer time to finish the tasks (given that my whole lifetime yard experience is the 85 hours mowing grass).

 

[Coyote machine]

Coyote & IT, thank you very much for all the advice you’ve given. I knew you’d veto thorholt’s idea, but I truly appreciate everything I learned from you just on this thread alone.

No problem, youze welcome....
<snip>

Do you want to make a guess how much I spent to cut 120 trees, haul them away, and grind stumps…all in 10 days?

Not really, but I'll bite....
Not knowing size of the trees or any other details of the site work, I'll throw out $50K neighborhood...

 

[IslandTractor]

Coyote & IT, thank you very much for all the advice you’ve given. I knew you’d veto thorholt’s idea, but I truly appreciate everything I learned from you just on this thread alone.

And thank you Lynn.

IT: you said outsourcing would cost me 10-20% of 40,000…that is 4,000 - 8,000.

There are 3 immediate projects: drainage 1,000 feet, grading 3 level acres, and fencing 1,600 feet.

Frankly, and based on some estimates I got and outsourcing I did for this property, it is impossible for the 8,000 to cover any one of those three projects…and I am not counting material, just labor and their equipment.

Do you want to make a guess how much I spent to cut 120 trees, haul them away, and grind stumps…all in 10 days?

OK, it's a bigger project than I though. I was focused on the 150 yards of trench mentioned in the original post. Is it 450 feet or 1000 feet of trench?

Cost estimates for removing trees depends on whether the trees were of commercial value and how carefully the land was restored. Could have been anything from a profit for sale of the lumber to $40-50K or higher if stumps were removed and soil restored. A big excavator could take out that many trees in a couple of days if they were just medium size trash trees. Still, expensive if there was no value to the lumber.

What still doesn't make sense to me is your focus on getting it all done as quickly as possible but you are a novice and limited to weekend work. If you want to do it yourself then you need to be realistic about time. A CUT based TLB will have at most a 9ft BH with an 18" bucket. That is adequate to dig 450 or 1000 feet of trench and 200 feet a day would not be hard to do once you became familiar with the equipment and task. Probably half the time if you rented a mini excavator though.

Spreading and leveling 200 yards of "subsoil" (what about topsoil?) would take multiple days with a CUT. Longer if you are going for accurate leveling and grading. Most landscapers wouldn't use a CUT as a skidsteer is much faster for that type of work.

Digging 200 fence posts would also be most efficient with a hydraulic phd mounted to a skidsteer. Probably five or more times as efficient as using a 3PT post hole digger. Of course digging the holes is the easy part, a rented skidsteer with phd could dig all the holes in a day or two. Using a 3PT phd on a CUT would probably take 10 minutes per hole with a single operator. Maybe five minutes if someone helped by driving or lining up the phd. Actually installing the fence would be the expensive part.

Where I live you can get an independent skidsteer or TLB and operator for about $70-100/hr on a daily basis. YMMV. Probably about the same for miniexcavator. Of course a professional landscaping company will charge multiples.

So, a "do it yourself" full time project for just the earth moving (trench, post holes, 200 yards of dirt moving) might well be accomplished in 7-10 days of actual work. Nobody digs quite as efficiently as on paper so maybe add a 3-4 day additional buffer. That's at least seven or eight full weekends with no consideration for time moving equipment, weather, etc etc. Might more realistically take twice that long for someone commuting to the work site and starting as a novice. And none of this includes time to install the fence posts or fencing or setting drainage pipe or returning spoils to the trench once the pipe has been set.

I still think that the dirt moving part of the project could be hired out or done with rented equipment and done more efficiently and cheaply than buying all new equipment and doing it yourself though. The real expenses in this project are the drainage pipe, fence and trucking.

You need to think about post project uses for the equipment to really judge what size and type of CUT would make sense in the long term. Your decision on mowing strategy is critical here. If you can accept something other than a manicured lawn look by mowing just 2-3 acres per weekend in 90 minutes then any CUT that runs a six foot mower and 8-9 ft BH would make sense so something in the 35-45 hp range. I'd be very confident doing it over time with my DK40 and Woods BH90x and Caroni TM1900 flail mower plus a phd.

 

[trctorfan17]

Coyote & IT, great guess for the tree removal...I paid 48,000 for it. About 100 (out of 120) trees were healthy and good lumber.

IT, those are great additional details you're providing...I really appreciate that.

I can rent skid steer with hydraulic PHD for around 400 but then add 250 for delivery and pickup. But I also want to plant small trees along the fence, so I will need to add the convenience factor of having a PHD at home. Also, you're right, it may be better to rent backhoe instead of buying it.

You guys convinced me not to go over 45 hp.

I think it may be good to get the finish mower 72 inch...Kioti offers standard duty and medium duty, is it better to get the heavier (medium) over the lighter (standard) one?

Thank you

 

[Coyote machine]

I have to admit full disclosure - I worked as ground crew, then tree climber back in the day, when I was around 14-16. Some of the hardest work I've ever done. I'm 65 this past April, and I don't climb trees anymore, unless being chased by my resident black bear who's moved into my neighborhood. 1st time in nearly 35 years at this property I've even seen a bear within 5 feet of my house, when it flipped open the commercial recycle bin to search for ~recyclables?:confused2:

And if you're going to plant trees/shrubs and buy them from a commercial nursery they will plant them for you and guarantee the stock to survive, usually a year. It's worth it depending on what size and quantity to consider them doing it...
Some nurseries will do fencing too, so again you could bundle labor and machines to dig holes, install fence, and plant trees. Depending on size of 'small trees' you want, I don't think a PHD would be needed or used by a pro landscape crew, but I could be mistaken on that one. I'm not a landscaper; more of a cut/prune, drag or burn trees guy....

If I were you I'd investigate some of the nearby landscape companies and research, ask neighbors too, what nurseries in your area are full service. Have their head guy give you a plan, on paper, of finished project, drainage installed, land graded and sub and topsoil installed, and whatever else you need done, fencing, lights, carousel, gazebo, etc.

Sounds like you have plenty of $$, (not a slam, just an armchair assessment of your possible situation), and like a lot who do, too little time to spend it fooling around cutting your however many acres. They can give you a mow all your stuff rate too.

I say work smart, not hard! Use your resources most effectively; and for you, buying a tractor and screaming fast ZT are not best use of them, IMHO.

When you get the estimates, pick one, save on buying the tractor, hoe, hog, PHD, etc. and go out and buy a nice BMW or whatever, and show your wife, girlfriend, mistress :shocked:, whomever, a good time, and relax, knowing you've done a good job by letting your fingers do the walking through your local phone book. :thumbsup:

Smart money spent, better overall satisfaction, and a guarantee on the trees/shrubs and fence pieces, and the install of same for a certain period of time. What more could one ask for? :thumbsup:

 

[IslandTractor]

Coyote & IT, great guess for the tree removal...I paid 48,000 for it. About 100 (out of 120) trees were healthy and good lumber.

IT, those are great additional details you're providing...I really appreciate that.

I can rent skid steer with hydraulic PHD for around 400 but then add 250 for delivery and pickup. But I also want to plant small trees along the fence, so I will need to add the convenience factor of having a PHD at home. Also, you're right, it may be better to rent backhoe instead of buying it.

You guys convinced me not to go over 45 hp.

I think it may be good to get the finish mower 72 inch...Kioti offers standard duty and medium duty, is it better to get the heavier (medium) over the lighter (standard) one?

Thank you

Regarding mowers, I know Kioti doesn't manufacture mowers so assume they are rebadged. Never heard anything bad about them so they are likely a good brand. I generally buy medium duty. Major quality brands for finish mowers are Woods, Landpride, Rhino. Other good brands too that I cannot remember. I would personally get another Caroni flail (or other good medium duty brand flail from Italy or USA). If you have nothing to do for the next week, read the big flail thread which is titled something like "let's discuss flail mowers".