Kioti Grapple Buyer beware!!!!

[BCT235]

Thanks again Everyone for your responses. and Pictures of your grapples.

These were New line for KIOTI last year, I thought that someone had to make them for KIOTI, but the dealer said KIOTI makes them.

Only reason i have the KIOTI grapple is i called to buy a different brand but realized it was not kind i wanted. The salesman said kioti is making some new ones and i could get one. at the time the we all know world was crazy, i really wanted a Wicked made in the USA! but i could not wait they were like 6 month out then.

powerstroke444e- You got that right!! if i would have not thought myself the skills for grinding and welding id be in big trouble!!! i like doing all my own maintenance on my stuff so knowledge goes a long way. again that is why i love forums and i have learned alot on this one just reading before i purchased my tractor. and i had no knowledge of anything to do with tractors or hydraulics' just a year ago, now after owning mine, i have added a W.R. Long 3rd function and set of factory rear remotes on my own.

Will S- you are right and part of the reason i put it up on here. i do not do much on any social platforms and i really like this Forum so i wanted to put it up here first to get some opinions from guys who have way more Experience with equipment before i just go blasting it out there.

ooski- Great mod will do that one for sure!! thanks for sharing.

 

[Tony H]

SSQA should not need grinding old to new. That is their first tale. IF they sold it to you knowing it wasn't a Kioti to Kioti connection, then they should not play that card now that you have a problem.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Hi all. First Post here. I am kinda new to the Tractor game. I First had a Bobcat CT122 then upgraded to a 2009 CT235, i love the tractor perfect size and power for what i need.

I purchased a Brand New Kioti Grapple they just came out with last fall. First off i was really supprised it would not fit my Bobtach system. i had to Make some significant grinding to get it to fit flush. I called the dealer i purchased it from and he said this is normal on new to old equipment, so i went with it. It is a Kioti dealer i purchased this from fyi. So now just got the Chance to really use it, the Power company came by and made a mess under the power lines so was clearing some Small logs, and some large mulch from the brush crusher. After 5 hours of use, one of small tines the top section of the grapple busted off.

Ok So i just sent a nice message to customer service at Kioti. Saying how much i like the grapple and explained the same things i just laid out here. Wow was i really surprised at the response i got. i will share it. and some pictures i have of the grapple.

as stated im new to this kind of thing so was posting to see if this is normal for most other equipment manufactures or not?

Here is what Kioti sent me. I sent them back i will NEVER own another piece of there equipment again if this is the way i will get treated.
Luke,



Thank you for contacting KIOTI Tractor. KIOTI does not recommend the instlallation of KIOTI implements on any equipment that is not manufactured by and specifically for a KIOTI.



Unfortunatly, KIOTI will be unable to provide product support in this situation.



Regards,

[IMG alt="Logo Description automatically generated"]https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/m...n&downloadWhenThumbnailFails=true&pid=2[/IMG]	DAEDONG-USA, INC. KIOTI TRACTOR DIVISION	Steven Hopper Customer Relations
6300 KIOTI Drive Wendell, NC 27591 877-GO-KIOTI KIOTI.com

Wow. A 2009 CT235 manufactured by Daedong for Bobcat doesn't have much power or weight and they cannot stand behind their grapple (which must have crap welds with low penetration). That is like Tim Fox at Kioti voiding my then brand new 6010 tractor sight unseen for bolting a piranha tooth bar to my bucket and knocking over light brush growing in spagnum.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Just part of owning a grapple you will find all the design flaws and get practice welding. I agree it's frustrating when you pay for something and it's not 100%. Just remember rocks and concrete are really rough on stuff and require alot of maintenance.

I've never needed to weld my Everything Attachments Root Grapple. I have needed to replace a hose on it twice.

 

[Will S]

You've got a lot of work done with that tactor and grapple, but what happened to allow the grapple come unleashed? Did a branch or some such, release the SS lock, or wasn't it locked before you began using it? Any damage other than hoses?

 

[Clintock]

I’ll second ooski. Get that metal in the grille ASAP. I waited and it cost me around 300 bucks for plastic pars to replace what small sticks busted. 40 bucks expanded metal 6 bucks for nuts and bolts and 7 bucks for spray paint. Will save you a lot of headache. A grapple is about the most abusive attachment a person can add to a tractor. Just my opinion.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

You've got a lot of work done with that tactor and grapple, but what happened to allow the grapple come unleashed? Did a branch or some such, release the SS lock, or wasn't it locked before you began using it? Any damage other than hoses?

The fire was facing the sun so I really didn't see what happened, but apparently, a stick tripped the single lever locking mechanism so the grapple was loose in the SSQA. As I worked, rattling the curl to drop material eventually the grapple dropped into my fire and I dragged it out by the still attached hoses. There was no damage to the hoses or the grapple, and as a result, Ted over at Everything Attachments started offering bars on the back of the grapple as protection against tripping SSQA levers, and I made a tech tip video for my fellow Kioti owners so that it wouldn't happen to them.

Anyway, I really do not like the single-lever SSQA lever set-up as I've had to repair it three times in the last eight years.

 

[Will S]

Thanks for the update. I wouldn't like that single lever lack system either. They must have come up with that, as a solution to a problem that didn't exist.

 

[oosik]

Thanks oosik, very cool. I've often thought it would be too easy for pokers to get by the big bars on my guard.

Does this diminish your headlight power/usefulness much? I've got different tractor but like yours, added material would be in line with lights. Thanks

wisconsitom - yes, I would imagine that the expanded metal on the OEM guard would reduce headlight power somewhat. Not that the headlights are that bright anyhow. In the thirteen years I've owned the M6040 - never once have I used it at night. No reason to - I'm retired.

If nighttime use was in the cards - I would install added lights - modified grill guard or not. I have enough problems dealing with crap in the broad daylight. Nighttime use would DEFINITELY require added illumination.

 

[oosik]

Clintock - that's a really fine looking grill guard.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

That is like Tim Fox at Kioti voiding my then brand new 6010 tractor sight unseen for bolting a piranha tooth bar to my bucket and knocking over light brush growing in spagnum.

Did that actually happen to you?

Update:
Apparently it did as I found the thread here: Kioti Warranty and Parts Support ?

I just have to say after reading that thread that it disgusts me that we have members on this site that beat up fellow members when they are reaching out for help and support like you did in that thread! That's BS!

 

[perrypower]

Regardless of whether or not this is a true warrantable issue, your first mistake was not reaching out to the dealer. Your dealer should be the one making the warranty claim for the broken tine. I'm surprised that Kioti even responded to you instead of directing you to your dealer.

 

[deezler]

^ Perry is right about that, why did you go behind your dealer's back to complain to Kioti directly?

That is definitely a shi!tty response from Kioti, kind of shocking they would default to that position immediately. But I also think you are over reacting a bit in the first place. You were doing some rough work with a grapple, and busted a tine tip off. It happens. In order to do that, you probably had the force and momentum of basically the entire tractor and loader against that one tine. And in your case, it was a metallurgy issue, not a manufacturing problem. What did you expect them to do, pay for return shipping and pull a brand new one out of their butt?

Sorry if that sounds crass. But I think you just have a grapple with a busted tine now, either live with it or get it welded back up. Just part of owning heavy equipment, IMO.

 

[stuckmotor]

Some consumer crusader I once saw on TV said when trying to get help with a product to always start at the bottom and work your way up until you get satisfaction. If you start at the top and get a NO you have no one else to go to.

 

[BCT235]

^ Perry is right about that, why did you go behind your dealer's back to complain to Kioti directly?

That is definitely a shi!tty response from Kioti, kind of shocking they would default to that position immediately. But I also think you are over reacting a bit in the first place. You were doing some rough work with a grapple, and busted a tine tip off. It happens. In order to do that, you probably had the force and momentum of basically the entire tractor and loader against that one tine. And in your case, it was a metallurgy issue, not a manufacturing problem. What did you expect them to do, pay for return shipping and pull a brand new one out of their butt?

Sorry if that sounds crass. But I think you just have a grapple with a busted tine now, either live with it or get it welded back up. Just part of owning heavy equipment, IMO.

Non Taken. I think people are taking my Post the wrong way. The Dealer was the one First day i got it after multiple phone calls convinced me to pretty much void the warranty and grind down the Grapple so it would fit my attachment. I really liked the grapple so i did what i had to to make it fit. I will be adding More steel to it where i had to take some away soon so i can just reinforce all the tines in the process.

So you are correct i understand i bought a piece of equipment and i am using it as such. there is a possibility of Failure at some point and yes i am a little unhappy so it probably comes out as such. But what i was trying to pass along was if someone was considering a Kioti Grapple that this is the response you will get if anything goes wrong with the grapple. So i was just a little shocked at the response. Not like i was asking for a new one or something. I more just was making them aware.

And yes i like owing some equipment and you are right at some point stuff needs fixed or made Better! i like fixing my own stuff so i did teach myself how to weld and Did all my own 3rd function hydraulic work on my tractor so i knew how it works!

 

[BCT235]

Regardless of whether or not this is a true warrantable issue, your first mistake was not reaching out to the dealer. Your dealer should be the one making the warranty claim for the broken tine. I'm surprised that Kioti even responded to you instead of directing you to your dealer.

I appreciate your Stance, but i do not see it this way. Was not going behind my Dealers back at all. as i have stated I voided the Warranty first day. I was OK with it as stated. Problem is i did not post my first email to Kioti. I was Very Nice, really just wanted to let them know if they had any other problems or could make a better design going forward. Not that i wanted anything from them at all. and that was the response i got. So as stated my only fault is not buying American Made! never again Who knows maybe they got some bad Steel? its possible these were the first ones they made. all i am trying to do is help someone else maybe trying to make the same decision i was trying to.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Non Taken. I think people are taking my Post the wrong way.

But what i was trying to pass along was if someone was considering a Kioti Grapple that this is the response you will get if anything goes wrong with the grapple. So i was just a little shocked at the response. Not like i was asking for a new one or something. I more just was making them aware.

and that was the response i got.

all i am trying to do is help someone else maybe trying to make the same decision i was trying to.

I am not taking this post the wrong way and I appreciate that you have started this thread. If people don't come on here and share their experiences how are we all supposed to know what's good and what's bad in the tractor market place

I am not here to bash Daedong as I have never done business with them but as I have stated in another thread I started, you are not the first person to be saying this. I'm going to go ahead and say this because I feel this needs to be put out there. There are three types reactions that are usually given to these type of threads. The first reaction is to attack the poster and accuse him or her of misusing or abusing their equipment. The second reaction is to make excuses for the manufacturer and the third reaction is to reconsider doing business with the manufacturer. This community needs to be careful about rushing to judgements. One of the greatest powers this online forum has is social influence. If this community does not embrace peoples willingness to come forward and report their purchase woes then it's cutting it's nose off to spite it's face. That is one the biggest motivational drivers for why people even get interested in joining this community. They want to be able to get personal feedback and reviews from other members who have experience with the equipment. So I am calling on this community to rethink it's default position of attacking people who are trying to inform the consumer market/TBN community of their experience with purchasing and owning equipment. If you feel the OP's are not providing all the facts then say so and give them an opportunity to do that but attacking them and beating them up is no way to behave as a community and adults.

Non Taken. I think people are taking my Post the wrong way. The Dealer was the one First day i got it after multiple phone calls convinced me to pretty much void the warranty and grind down the Grapple so it would fit my attachment.

BC this is where everything started to go wrong. Your dealer should have never advised you to modify that grapple. That was flat out wrong and stupid on your dealers part. He should have known better then to tell you that!

 

[deezler]

This community needs to be careful about rushing to judgements. One of the greatest powers this online forum has is social influence. If this community does not embrace peoples willingness to come forward and report their purchase woes then it's cutting it's nose off to spite it's face. That is one the biggest motivational drivers for why people even get interested in joining this community. They want to be able to get personal feedback and reviews from other members who have experience with the equipment. So I am calling on this community to rethink it's default position of attacking people who are trying to inform the consumer market/TBN community of their experience with purchasing and owning equipment. If you feel the OP's are not providing all the facts then say so and give them an opportunity to do that but attacking them and beating them up is no way to behave as a community and adults.

I do generally fully agree with you about this. I hate it when people seem to barely even read the original post, and just default to an attack on the OP as foolish or a misuser of their equipment.

But the other side of the coin is that educating a newbie who has just joined the forum, to start by complaining about a piece of equipment or customer experience that they may have gone about things the wrong way, can also be informative and helpful for other users.

You probably know what I am talking about, there are a TON of posts on here from very new users who say how horrible their brand of newly-bought tractor or equipment is, and rushing to judgement themselves about how they were mistreated, and thus must inform the forum and world about their problems. BCT235, I am not lumping you in this category, just to be clear. We appreciate you sharing your experience with the equipment and response from Kioti. Which again, was baffling how poorly they responded to you.

I still don't understand why the standard SSQA grapple didn't fit your Bobcat tractor though. Can you elaborate on what didn't line up?

 

[deezler]

Problem is i did not post my first email to Kioti. I was Very Nice, really just wanted to let them know if they had any other problems or could make a better design going forward. Not that i wanted anything from them at all. and that was the response i got. So as stated my only fault is not buying American Made! never again Who knows maybe they got some bad Steel? its possible these were the first ones they made. all i am trying to do is help someone else maybe trying to make the same decision i was trying to.

I suppose the Kioti rep that received your email perhaps incorrectly assumed it was a plea for a full warranty coverage and repair? They didn't even know yet that you had been grinding on it to make the SSQA fit, right? That fact alone would void your whole warranty anyway, of course.

Speaking of american made. I have an everything-attachments 55" wicked grapple but I also just bought an mtl 54" root grapple (american made) that is hopefully arriving today! The mtl grapples are a terrific bargain at under $1200 shipped. Hopefully the quality is reasonably good.

Compact Tractor 48"-54"-60" HD Root Grapple Hydraulic - quick attach — MTL Attachments

Brand New Built in the USA 48" Compact Tractor / Skid Steer Root Grapple bucket This is our newest and most advanced model 36", 42" and 48" grapples ever built We have the largest opening / per weight / style than any other manufacturer - Industry leading 41&qu

www.mtlattachments.com

 

[DK35vince]

I still don't understand why the standard SSQA grapple didn't fit your Bobcat tractor though. Can you elaborate on what didn't line up?

I've had to do a bit of grinding on a couple of my SSQA attachments where the locking pins latch in the bottom of the attachment. (pins where to tight to latch down without a bit of grinding on the QA plate)