Kioti DS4510-adding 3rd function spool valve after hydraulic block.

[mrtwister]

Greetings to all!!

I need to add a control for a grapple on my FEL. I've read as many posts on the subject as I can and I understand the principles behind all the options, be it another spool valve in series after the FEL control using PB, 12 VDC/manual diverter valves or additional rear remote kit. I did not find an answer to address my specific situation however.

My tractor has a hydraulic block/manifold that services the FEL spool valve as well as a set of rear remotes and the 3 PTH. From all the posts I've read on the subject, I've concluded that if I wish to add another spool valve to control the grapple, it needs to be plumbed in "after" the hydraulic block to it's intake port then out it's power beyond port back to the line to the rear remotes....in other words between the block and the rear remote valve. I have included a picture of the hydraulic block on the tractor. As you can see, the line going aft to the rear remote valve is steel and not rubber ( the one with the silver sticker on it). My question is: how do I plumb a new line in to divert the flow to the new valve?...does the steel line need to be cut/flanged or as I am hoping, is there another way to tap into it with a new fitting/block? Given that there is likely very little flexibility, what would my options be? Any opinions or ideas are welcome. Thank you!

 

[J_J]

Do you want a true 3rd function or a diverter valve.

A diverter valve will install in the loader curl circuit and controlled by a switch on the loader handle.

A true 3rd function valve can be installed anywhere inline/series flow path. Switch on handle.

You could install the 3rd function valve just after the loader using the loader PB to feed the grapple valve, and the graple valve will feed the hyd blk.

Tank lines go to tank.

 

[mrtwister]

Thanks for your quick reply JJ....I have been trying to decide whether I should go with a diverter valve off the loader circuit or true 3rd function....I was under the impression that I had to install the grapple valve after the hydraulic block....you've answered my question though...I can insert the grapple valve in series between the FEL valve and hyd-block...not sure what you mean by "switch on handle" for true 3rd function valve though....now I just need to figure out how to tap into the tank line which is also a rigid steel line from the hyd block, if I decide to go that route......thanks again.

 

[J_J]

The switch on the loader lever handle, activates the valve that you install.

It can be momentary push button or on/off switch.

There is a default mode using the diverter, and that would be with no voltage, the loader would bei curl. Press the button to use grapple.

Something to consider when using the 3rd function, and that is if you use full lever on the loader, you will have no flow to the 4rd valve.

In order to use both loader and grapple, use only half lever so the 3rd function will have flow..

 

[Leejohn]

If all 3 of the rubber lines goes to the loader valve, one of them should be a tank line.

 

[mrtwister]

Thanks again JJ....yes I understand the switch function on the diverter valve and also that the loader and grapple valves can't be used simultaneously for true 3rd function.

Leejohn...thanks for the info...the manual indicates the left rubber line is "in" from FEL control valve, the right rubber line is "out" to control valve and the other rubber line behind the right one is "return" from the control valve....that "return" line is the tank line...correct?

I also have another question....my total pump capacity for the tractor is 13.2 GPM's......so if I decide to go true 3rd function, I should chose a one spool valve with at least 13 GPM, correct?...or can I go with less GPM's than the total pump capacity on the tractor?

 

[Leejohn]

Tank line you are right. The valve should match your gpm, if you go bigger you feathering well be less, but well not do any damage. If you go smaller and it is just for a grabber it well move slower, but with a lot of use at one time it well build heat. I use 1/4" lines for my gabber, it helps with the speed and makes it just right for me and helps with the running of the hoses.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Thanks again JJ....yes I understand the switch function on the diverter valve and also that the loader and grapple valves can't be used simultaneously for true 3rd function.

Leejohn...thanks for the info...the manual indicates the left rubber line is "in" from FEL control valve, the right rubber line is "out" to control valve and the other rubber line behind the right one is "return" from the control valve....that "return" line is the tank line...correct?

I also have another question....my total pump capacity for the tractor is 13.2 GPM's......so if I decide to go true 3rd function, I should chose a one spool valve with at least 13 GPM, correct?...or can I go with less GPM's than the total pump capacity on the tractor?

You can go with less, about 5 GPM of that is for the power steering. So really you only have 8-9 GPM for your implements. I commonly use 12 GPM valves for everything less than 12 GPM and everyone seems to be happy.

 

[mrtwister]

You can go with less, about 5 GPM of that is for the power steering. So really you only have 8-9 GPM for your implements. I commonly use 12 GPM valves for everything less than 12 GPM and everyone seems to be happy.

Thanks MtnViewRanch....I'm currently considering this one which seems to meet all the requirements:



Feature(s)
Compact design, lightweight, excellent metering characteristics, convertible for many applications
Application(s)
Well suited for both Mobile and Industrial applications

Attributes & Specifications
Function 3-Position, 4-Way, Open Center
Max. Continuous Pressure 3,750 PSI
Max. Continuous Flow 9 GPM
Peak Flow 12 GPM
Relief Valve Setting 2,100 PSI
Relief Valve Range 1,500 to 3,750 PSI
Inlet Port(s) 10 Side/8 Top ORBF
Outlet Port(s) 10 Side/8 Top ORBF
Work Ports 8 ORBF
Max. Return Line Pressure 1,100 PSI
Load Check(s) One For Valve
Handle Mount Vertical/Horizontal
Convertible To Closed Center Yes
Convertible To Power Beyond Yes
Convertible Spool Types Motor, Single-Acting
Package Dimensions (L x W x H)
7.7 x 6.7 x 4.1 in.
Weight (lbs): 5.56

 

[J_J]

Do you feel secure in using two lever valves at the same time with same hand?

For that same reason, most people shy away from another lever, where as the 12 v valve is operated by a push button on the loader handle.

The solenoid valve is probably less expensive also.

They will all work, be it a diverter valve, 3rd function solenoid valve.or a manual lever valve.

You can feather a lever valve, but not the 3rd function solenoid valve.

 

[mrtwister]

Hi JJ...thanks for the info....I realize operating two levers simultaneously is an issue....for instance dumping/opening the grapple as the loader arms are being raised for one smooth and seamless operation...I'm a little leery about the electrical 12V thing....those valves still need to be plumbed in and 12V is just one more thing that can go wrong...at least with the 3rd function lever valve there is no other issue to be concerned with other than maintaining hydraulic pressure to keep things moving.

Up where I live, the only local distributor of reasonably priced hydraulic components is Princess Auto...the only 12v selector valve they have is this one @ $249.99 so it would be more expensive than the lever valve which is $149.99.


I'm curious though, what is the difference between a 3rd function solenoid valve and diverter/selector valve?...I thought they were basically the same (12V)...if not, how are they installed and operate differently?....thanks for your input.

 

[J_J]

The so called true 3rd function valve has an IN port an OUT port, and two work ports. You can gangs these valves to operate more that one circuit.

The fluid flows in the IN port to the cyl and back into the 3rd function valve and flow through the OUT port. All ports are rated to 3000 or 5000 psi. No tank line

A diverter valve will use the curl circuit hyd and send the flow to either the curl cyl or the grapple cyl. Also no tank line. You can gang these valve to operate more than one circuit.

Manual lever valve like the one you posted, will have IN port, OUT/tank port, PB port, and two work ports.

This valve will have a tank port.

A similar diverter valve can be purchased for much less.

SAE 8 15 GPM DOUBLE SELECTOR VALVE 12 VDC P15544-1

http://www.surpluscenter.com/_MoreSpecs/i9-5117.pdf

You would want the default mode of selector/diverter to go to the curl cyl, which is what you would use most.

 

[2funkids]

I didn't already have a rear remote but I do now and my plan is to use a standard type valve located on the other side so I can run the loader with my right hand and momentarily use my left hand to operate a grapple or other front mounted hydraulic. Now that the hydraulics are available I can consider building my own grapple or bucket thumb.

 

[J_J]

If you were to check out a tractor with push button grapple, I think you would like it better, but whatever suits your needs is besr for oyu..

 

[marchanna]

I know it's an old thread, but I found this at Princess Auto, which seems like it would be a good third function valve:

12V DC 4-Way, 3-Position Tandem Centre Directional Control Valve | Princess Auto

Manual:
https://images11.palcdn.com/hlr-system/Documents/86/868/8688/8688863_manual.pdf

 

[Lemo]

I don't think that is what you are looking for, marchanna. The first thing is that it only flows 5 gpm. In a diverter type set up you are going to need six ports. The hydraulic flow from the loader valve will be used to operate either the curl or the third function (could be lift if you prefer). For this you need six ports, one pair to communicate with the loader valve and a pair apiece to communicate with the curl and third function circuits respectively.

I consider myself reasonably handy and was shopping parts to to this for the RX7320 I ordered. After the dust settled I went with the Michigan Iron and Equipment kit. It arrived today and I have to say that it is a thing of beauty, appears to be very high quality with great directions. The guy on the phone said "If you have to open a drawer to find a part it means we screwed up." It is a little pricey but I think the value will be there once I factor in running around scaring up parts and having hoses made.

 

[marchanna]

That occurred to me too after I thought about it for a while.