Kioti Broken in Half

[BigBlue1]

What exactly you see on a tractor that tells you it was designed to have a loader? They still have the weakest axle and subframe under that loader... Sure, manufacturers offer a loader because there is a demand for it, but still doesn't make it designed to have a loader.

Around here, you really can't buy a tractor off the dealer with the so called "factory" loader on it. It will be aftermarket, and even if it has the sticker saying the manufacturer of the tractor, chances are it will be a Stoll, Quicke loader or any other manufacturer on that specific country.

LOL! What??

 

[4570Man]

LOL! What??

Hey, let’s build a loader and put the smaller tire, weaker axel in the front. Also let’s put a pivot under the loader axel which will seriously compromise stability. While we’re at it we might as well put the engine in the front where it will provide zero counter ballast and block visibility. And for counter ballast nah the user can figure that out for themselves, hopefully they don’t flip first. Actually no loader engineer ever said any of that. Is there anything you could add that would make for a worse loader platform?

 

[4570Man]

If you were going to use a tractor to build a loader this is how to solve the inherent design flaws.

 

[sd455dan]

I think the new "styling" is saving a buck by eliminating the front upper loader braces to the front axle mount and also in some cases removing the rearward rear axle reinforcements make this kind of failure more likely on smaller tractors.
Also and this is jmo. using welded steel side plates and then just a small crossmember is not as strong, versus a heavier cast front cradle that bolts to a structural cast oil pan and the engine is inherently stronger imo But these new CUTS it is more modern looking, offers better accessibility to the engine and is visually more appealing.
If that tractor was mine I would get it on a rollback/trailer get it in the shop. replace the damaged parts like the front driveline. Reinforce the front cradle and add some extra bracing. and then get on with using a Good tractor. I would probably dump the extended length rock? grapple as well and take it a bit easier. Flame suit on. Kioti is a Good tractor

ps 4570 I guess the guy could always buy a Case 580 without a backhoe
FEL lift of about 6800lb. pivot front axle, smaller front tires, engine in front. Put a HD Gannon box blade on back
Not a CUT but still a conventional "Industrial" tractor that will load quite a bit and do a decent job at it.

 

[4570Man]

I think the new "styling" is saving a buck by eliminating the front upper loader braces to the front axle mount and also in some cases removing the rearward rear axle reinforcements make this kind of failure more likely on smaller tractors.
Also and this is jmo. using welded steel side plates and then just a small crossmember is not as strong, versus a heavier cast front cradle that bolts to a structural cast oil pan and the engine is inherently stronger imo But these new CUTS it is more modern looking, offers better accessibility to the engine and is visually more appealing.
If that tractor was mine I would get it on a rollback/trailer get it in the shop. replace the damaged parts like the front driveline. Reinforce the front cradle and add some extra bracing. and then get on with using a Good tractor. I would probably dump the extended length rock? grapple as well and take it a bit easier. Flame suit on. Kioti is a Good tractor

My backhoe that’s designed a bit more robust with a price tag to match has a frame that runs the entire length of the machine. That’s really how all tractors that are claimed backhoe/loader capable should be designed.

 

[sd455dan]

whoops guess I was adding the ps while you posted YEP.

 

[4570Man]

whoops guess I was adding the ps while you posted YEP.

A full size backhoe still isn’t an optimally designed loader platform but they were built with durability in mind. They also don’t go around bending the curl cylinder every time you miss treat it. You don’t see them with busted front ends either. I won’t say it doesn’t exist but mine is rated for 54,000 pounds static load rating and has a planetary reduction on it. I’m sure it’s possible but I’ve never seen a stripped backhoe front end. There’s dozens of tractor front end failures in this site alone. I’ve never seen one for sale locally or I might own it but I wouldn’t mind having a Deere 210 with a Gannon blade with hydraulic tilt, hydraulic toplink and hydraulic rippers.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

Hey, let’s build a loader and put the smaller tire, weaker axel in the front. Also let’s put a pivot under the loader axel which will seriously compromise stability. While we’re at it we might as well put the engine in the front where it will provide zero counter ballast and block visibility. And for counter ballast nah the user can figure that out for themselves, hopefully they don’t flip first. Actually no loader engineer ever said any of that. Is there anything you could add that would make for a worse loader platform?

Your argument seems to be that a tractor is not designed as a dedicated loader, therefore the companies who build them didn't design them to have a loader. I've operated several John Deere and Cat loaders and they are not intended to do the same job, there is no reason they should be built the same.. I wouldn't take my tractor to a gravel pit and load dump trucks all day nor would I have borrowed my companies JD 624 to rototill a garden.

One could extrapolate your argument to say that tractors were designed for pulling only. It was only to satisfy customers that they added a PTO therefore tractors weren't designed to use brush hogs or rototillers. PTO powered implements are built by after market companies therefore tractor engineers never designed them for that. It's a ridiculous argument. Tractors are engineered to have a loader and do within reason what a loader can do, Tractors are engineered to have a three point hitch and a PTO and to operate powered three point implements within reason.

What you are arguing is that tractors aren't the best loaders. Yup I agree. You cannot with any intelligence argue that modern tractors Cuts and SCUTs were not designed, engineered to have a loader.

 

[4570Man]

Your argument seems to be that a tractor is not designed as a dedicated loader, therefore the companies who build them didn't design them to have a loader. I've operated several John Deere and Cat loaders and they are not intended to do the same job, there is no reason they should be built the same.. I wouldn't take my tractor to a gravel pit and load dump trucks all day nor would I have borrowed my companies JD 624 to rototill a garden.

One could extrapolate your argument to say that tractors were designed for pulling only. It was only to satisfy customers that they added a PTO therefore tractors weren't designed to use brush hogs or rototillers. PTO powered implements are built by after market companies therefore tractor engineers never designed them for that. It's a ridiculous argument. Tractors are engineered to have a loader and do within reason what a loader can do, Tractors are engineered to have a three point hitch and a PTO and to operate powered three point implements within reason.

What you are arguing is that tractors aren't the best loaders. Yup I agree. You cannot with any intelligence argue that modern tractors Cuts and SCUTs were not designed, engineered to have a loader.

A tractor was designed for pulling. Doing anything else with them is a compromise. Pulling a pto powered bushhog would still fall under the category of pulling. They were designed for a loader they just weren’t intended to be good at it or durable. Also the loader was designed for loading. It wasn’t designed for dozing, ramming, pulling, demolition work or pretty much anything besides scooping and carrying.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

My backhoe that’s designed a bit more robust with a price tag to match has a frame that runs the entire length of the machine. That’s really how all tractors that are claimed backhoe/loader capable should be designed. View attachment 730007

Apples and oranges, one is a dedicated industrial tool, the other is a farm machine engineered to do a host of tasks your backhoe can't do. Can your backhoe detach it's loader and mount a snow blower? Tractors are designed to easily do that. But like I said, we are talking apples and oranges.
Nice looking machine though.