Kioti 45 died while operating - likely electrical problem

[BigGuy]

Hi all,
I've read the other thread re. a Kioti 45 not starting with interest but rather than add to what seems to be a resolved issue, I've decided to start a new thread in hopes of some help.
Worked with the tractor this morning in the woods, digging up some dirt. All worked well for about 1 hr until it suddenly died. I mean I drove into a pile of dirt with the loader and that was it.
No lights on dashboard, no click from starter, zero.

Here is what I've done or found so far:
1. battery is brand-new (2 weeks old) INTERSTATE tractor battery, fully charged
2. battery ground connection to frame is good (removed, cleaned, tightened)
3. Have 12 v power at starter motor terminal
4. large 60 AMP main fuse is good (check visually, did not measure but no indication of corrosion or bun-through)

Went to dealer this AM, guy in shop recommend replacing ignition switch, said this is a common problem with KIOTI's. Bought new one for $85, plugged it in, nothing.
Spend a bit more time looking for loose connectors, etc. - did not find anything obvious.

Could it be the relays as they solved the problem in the other thread? If so, where can I get new ones?
Also, does anybody have a circuit diagram you could email to me?

Thanks for the help - finally a weekend without rain and the tractor died....

Big Guy

 

[SSdoxie]

Check the fuses, especially the OCU fuse 5 amp. That fuse has power to the OCU, which in turn triggers the fuel & start relay. Power through that fuse also triggers the Switched Power Relay which lights up the dash panel.

 

[ritcheyvs]

The only way electrical stuff would stop the engine is via stop solenoid. Some of these stop the engine when power is removed (probably what you have) while others require electrical power to operate the stop solenoid.

What kind (model and year) of Kioti 45 do you have (there are at least three different schematics)?

You appear to have a total 12v failure that effects everything on the tractor so try replacing (or jumper) the 60 amp fuse. What about other lights (brake light, flashers, etc)? You could have a bad relay but that would not stop the tractor, unless it blew the big fuse.

 

[Coyote machine]

Hi all,
I've read the other thread re. a Kioti 45 not starting with interest but rather than add to what seems to be a resolved issue, I've decided to start a new thread in hopes of some help.
Worked with the tractor this morning in the woods, digging up some dirt. All worked well for about 1 hr until it suddenly died. I mean I drove into a pile of dirt with the loader and that was it.
No lights on dashboard, no click from starter, zero.

Here is what I've done or found so far:
1. battery is brand-new (2 weeks old) INTERSTATE tractor battery, fully charged
2. battery ground connection to frame is good (removed, cleaned, tightened)
3. Have 12 v power at starter motor terminal
4. large 60 AMP main fuse is good (check visually, did not measure but no indication of corrosion or bun-through)

Went to dealer this AM, guy in shop recommend replacing ignition switch, said this is a common problem with KIOTI's. Bought new one for $85, plugged it in, nothing.
Spend a bit more time looking for loose connectors, etc. - did not find anything obvious.

Could it be the relays as they solved the problem in the other thread? If so, where can I get new ones?
Also, does anybody have a circuit diagram you could email to me?

Thanks for the help - finally a weekend without rain and the tractor died....

Big Guy

Could have been worse- tractor died IN the rain!
Try not to jump to conclusions about what happened on another tractor; and please don't replace anything else on a hunch- you're already out $85 for nothing.
First, why did you replace the battery? You could have a good ground connection at the frame and a good battery post connection at the battery, AND a bad ground cable! Try using a jumper cable's ground side clamps and attach one end to the battery negative post and the other end to the frame bolt or a clean ground on the frame.
We've seen many ground cables go bad on all kinds of tractors, (and boats, personal experiences), and you need to start ruling things out by systematic process of elimination. Test the 60 amp fuse with a meter, or a new fuse to make absolutely sure it is not the fault.
Post back results.

BTW, you can get Kioti relays only through Kioti dealers, but don't go there yet, until we diagnose your machine, with your help.
how many hours on the machine?

 

[BigGuy]

Thanks for the input, let me elaborate:
1. Kioti DK45 S, 2005 model, no cab, w. Kioti loader, around 550 hrs
2. Replaced battery two weeks ago because old one (installed Nov. 2012) was dead, had charged it overnight, would not hold charge. Brought back to dealer, he checked and his tester said "BAD", he replaced it at no charge under Interstate warranty. I made sure I got a battery specifically for a tractor (they had to order it). New battery reads 12.86 volts.
3. Good idea with ground cable, I did remove cable from bolt and cleaned both eyelet and frame area to bare metal before re-installing, but I did not check actual cable. Will try the jumper trick tomorrow.
4. 60 AMP fuse is good, checked it with new meter.
5. Have 12 volt to incoming side of ignition switch! I "assume" I also have 12 Volt downstream when switch is on, but neither new nor old switch will cause any lights to come on. I can check downstream side for sure tomorrow but I doubt both switches are completely dead.
6. Are there any fuses after the ignition switch?
7. Where is the 5 AMP "OCU" fuse the previous poster talked about? Fuses in the fuse box under left foot are all 10-15-20 AMP and they are ok.
8. I will bring new ignition switch to dealer if that turns out not to be the problem.
Thanks guys!

 

[TnAndy]

Here's something non-electrical to look for......my 2011 Yanmar had a similar problem....turned out to be a VERY small amount of crap in the fuel tank blocking the line. (Drill shavings from the factory when they installed the fitting in the plastic tank for the supply hose....can you believe that ? )

WHEN it dies, and before you move it or jiggle the tank, pull the fuel line off at the tank, and see if you get a BIG supply of fuel, or just a dribble. If just a dribble, stick a skinny screwdriver up in the fitting and see if you don't get a GUSH of fuel. If so, you found your problem, and though it LOOKED like electrical, it wasn't. Believe me, they hunted for an electrical problem on mine for weeks.

 

[ritcheyvs]

There were two versions in 2005, engines in s/n EC44-00208 and earlier use the stop solenoid on the right side of the engine with external linkages. S/n EC44-00209 and later have the stop solenoid on the front of the engine with no external levers and there is an oil fill on the right side of the engine. The shutoff circuits are different but most other things are the same.

Assuming you have the older (s/n 208 and below) this should be your schematic:
http://pt709.synology.me/electrical.xps

If you look at the schematic (top left) you'll see the +12 from the battery goes to the starter and then the switch, but also to the emergency flashers, that's why I asked if the flashers work. If not you have a bad fuse, a bad ground, or a bad connector. Use CM's booster-cable trick to see if you have a ground problem.

 

[Coyote machine]

Thanks for the input, let me elaborate:
1. Kioti DK45 S, 2005 model, no cab, w. Kioti loader, around 550 hrs
2. Replaced battery two weeks ago because old one (installed Nov. 2012) was dead, had charged it overnight, would not hold charge. Brought back to dealer, he checked and his tester said "BAD", he replaced it at no charge under Interstate warranty. I made sure I got a battery specifically for a tractor (they had to order it). New battery reads 12.86 volts.
3. Good idea with ground cable, I did remove cable from bolt and cleaned both eyelet and frame area to bare metal before re-installing, but I did not check actual cable. Will try the jumper trick tomorrow.
4. 60 AMP fuse is good, checked it with new meter.
5. Have 12 volt to incoming side of ignition switch! I "assume" I also have 12 Volt downstream when switch is on, but neither new nor old switch will cause any lights to come on. I can check downstream side for sure tomorrow but I doubt both switches are completely dead.
6. Are there any fuses after the ignition switch?
7. Where is the 5 AMP "OCU" fuse the previous poster talked about? Fuses in the fuse box under left foot are all 10-15-20 AMP and they are ok.
8. I will bring new ignition switch to dealer if that turns out not to be the problem.
Thanks guys!

2 ig switches are not likely both bad, but Kioti has had their issues with ignition switches.
12.6 volts is nominal at battery. When it is running, the battery should read between 13.8-14.25 volts, depending on load applied- like headlights on, etc.
The OCU may not exist on your vintage DK-45.
Check out what you were going to first then we'll worry about more complicated things. I suspect your old battery went dead early due to your charging system NOT putting enough voltage back to the battery. The Interstate are the best batteries out there, ( I used to be one of their dealers when I had my shop). They're all I use; 2 on my boat, one on my DK-40, one on my Dr. brush mower, etc., etc.
Verify the cables, read the battery voltage when she's running, and post back results.

 

[BigGuy]

Thanks - I will check the warning flashers, I see where they should have power pretty much as soon as the battery is connected.

 

[MotorSeven]

If you were grubbing at all, it is possible that a stick jammed up under someplace and unplugged the electrical harness, or damaged the harness in some way. First thing I would do is get a flashlight and crawl around in the mud while inspecting every wire visible. The common North American stick is insidious and quite strategic and vicious in it's attack plans for the soft unprotected underbelly of our tractors.

The body count for my DK40 vs sticks:
-Knocked off the entire right side metal engine side shield...then I unknowingly ran over it(....hey what's that crumpled looking grey thing in the grasss?)
-completely De-bladed my radiator fan.....one mile back in the wood on top of a ridge
-unplugged hydraulic fittings to the FEl...I lost count on how many times
-jammed the throttle linkage causing a high rev

....all sticks must die.....