Just arrived and hour meter is broken

[cavedweller29]

This isn't about "Warranty" or "As Is" gentlemen.

It's about buying something that was represented as one thing, and may have obvious issues with the hours represented when sold.

But everyone please continue....

It would be interesting if the OP reports back his talk with the dealer tomorrow.

I agree but, there is no way any dealer can guarantee hours on a piece of used equipment unless it was in their own yard since new. Hour meters break and get replaced, or not, people disconnect them, etc. A dealer taking a tractor in trade and then reselling has no real idea how many hours are on it....even if they serviced it in the past. All the people on here screaming fraud have no idea what they are talking about. For a fraud to occur, there has to be the intent to commit fraud. You cannot unintentionally commit fraud. That would leave it up to the purchaser to prove the fraud which would be almost impossible in this circumstance. If the dealer wants to maintain a reputation they might offer to do something but it is quite likely that they are under no legal obligation to do so.
On the other hand, it would be far easier for the dealer to prove that their business reputationwas damaged by someone going on a forum and claiming they committed fraud. Just saying.

 

[cavedweller29]

Absolutely not. All things mechanical have an expected life span. These tractors and most tractors can get to 10k hours without a major overhaul. This tractor might only have a few thousand hours left instead of 8,500 hours. If it's the former, then the $30k isn't going to go far and I would have bought a different unit. But, I have no way of telling how many hours is has. The dealer was responsible for the content of the ad and the the validity of information exchanged between us as they had the physical item.

You would have to prove that they "intentionally" misrepresented the hours and, that they knew the actual number of hours actually on the machine. If you buy a used car, use it for a few years before reselling it, and then the new owners find out that the odometer had been tampered with, did YOU commit fraud?

 

[dusty3030]

It's not really the correct tool, but I'm not in a position to get a mini excavator, skid steer, and dozer. I need one machine I can do all 3 with for the camp. I realize it'll be slower then the correct tools, but it's also $200k cheaper.

The rental is difficult. Besides there being no where to rent from, I will need to bring the item out so frequently as the job comes up it'll incur considerable costs in just delivery fees.

Have you considered a full sized used backhoe? Buy it, use it for the grunt work then sell it for what you paid for it. If you're moving dirt and you are looking for a jack of all trades / master of none a full sized 4wd construction backhoe with a 4 in 1 bucket is about as versatile for a one machine to do many things as you can get. To get in your budget it will have 3,000 plus hours. Will likely have a leak or two and some slop, but if you are prudent you can find one even with 5,000 hours that isn't worn out. You have to look hard and wide but one retired from a municipality that was taken care of with 5,000 hours will be in better shape than a rental used loading road salt with 1,000.

I just quickly scanned through interweb to find an example, I know nothing about nor do I endorse this machine below. Just showing an example of what I'm talking about -

2004 Case 580

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

.

 

[cavedweller29]

A broken hour meter is far harder to catch than a bent barrel. You would need to run the tractor for a considerable length of time to ensure that it is recording the time correctly. An hour meter could be skipping and not keeping accurate track of the hours. As others have said, the dealer very well may be unaware of the actual hours and they relied on the hour meter just as you did. The loose steering and etc you mentioned is 100% on you. Those are things that you would have found if you had gone and inspected it yourself. Dealers don't sell equipment, cars, boats, etc by highlighting the negative, expectations vary from one person to another. One person may not care about the loose steering whereas you do. That is what you use to negotiate a lower price. If you chose to spend 30k on a used tractor sight unseen there is only one person tgat made a mistake.

Maybe. But a broken hour meter is like a bent barrel. Hard to not see.


When I worked in a gun store I checked every firearm that passed though carefully. At the rental counter I checked each firearm with it's biweekly dissasembly/cleaning.

 

[cavedweller29]

With a 184 I.Q., you should know "The accused can countersue for millions, no real limit on what dealer can countersue for." isn't true.

He is closer to the truth than you. The dealer could sue for damaged reputation and the subsequent loss of business. A big enough dealer could suffer some pretty significant damages and a smaller dealer....especially in this economic climate, could lose their business. At the very least, the OP would be looking at huge legal expenses to defend himself.

 

[cavedweller29]

This all has gone sideways...

"Paid for via loan from USAA." The financial institution might be interested that they loaned money on a false claim, affecting their asset... If dealer isn't helpful, it might be worth talking to your bank. No idea what the banks loan requirements were, or if hours where listed in the evaluation?

You are assuming that it was a "false claim". That would be implying that the dealer intentionally made a "false" claim rather than listing what the hour meter showed. in the legal system, words have meanings and they aren't always the same as those meanings in everyday life. The OP would have to PROVE the claims were inaccurate (hard to prove in this case) and that the dealer intended to make a "false" representation. when a dealer or a person buys a used car, they are assuming that the odometer is correct. That isn't necessarily the case but it doesn't mean the car was falsely represented at sale.

 

[sjmedin]

What city is this dealer located? I sure don't want to be doing any business with him!!

 

[rockinbbar]

He is closer to the truth than you. The dealer could sue for damaged reputation and the subsequent loss of business. A big enough dealer could suffer some pretty significant damages and a smaller dealer....especially in this economic climate, could lose their business. At the very least, the OP would be looking at huge legal expenses to defend himself.

Now that's just silly.

The dealer is who advertised the tractor as having "X" number of hours, and sold and delivered it as such.

When you harvest the fruits of that representation and advertising, the representation and claims need to be true, or it's a clear cut, breach of contract situation.

The dealer made good on it because he knew he was responsible, or at least negligent in that representation.

To say the dealer could sue and win "significant damages" is just ignorant. Ignorant of legal civil process law, anyway...

In order for the dealer to have litigious claim, the defamation would have to be 1) False. 2) proven in a court of law that a specific dollar amount of damages occurred.

A dealer wanting to keep his dealership brand also doesn't care to have stuff like this getting to the manufacturer he represents as a trustworthy merchant of their products.

I also must have missed where any dealer in particular was even mentioned by the OP about this transaction.

 

[JethroB]

I appreciate the offer. Need a loader and more HP.

Understandable. I didn’t have much use for a loader as I am mostly mowing. Most people want a loader . I tell potential buyers to view it as an add-on or implement. Kubota sells them, just a little pricey at $6k.