Buying Advice John Deere compared to Kubota

[ovrszd]

Lots of people post one personal experience and generalize that to the entire brand. Not the case.

Deere makes excellent large tractors. Once you get down into the compact and sub compact machines, you pay more and get less. I find Kubota to be more refined and better quality, but of course, thatç—´ only my personal experience

Deere's roots are in full size AG tractors.

Kubota's roots are in compact size AG tractors.

 

[ovrszd]

Dismissing and ignoring peoples personal experiences doesn't change the facts about Kubota's shady track record either.

Kubota has dominated the CUT and Utility class tractor market around the World for 30 years. There's bound to be some shade in that forest of tractors somewhere.

 

[Industrial Toys]

When we bought our JD 6200, they were exclaiming "We started with a clean sheet of paper" and I thought, how stupid! And sure enough, they built an inoperable transmission. Had to get new gears cut at Manheim and the dealer installed them, but the transmission still wasn't any good. Why throw experience away?

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Kubota has dominated the CUT and Utility class tractor market around the World for 30 years. There's bound to be some shade in that forest of tractors somewhere.

I can appreciate that statement :laughing: I also appreciate you being a peacemaker eace:

I'm not trying to dispute you ovrszd but how do you know that Kubota has dominated the CUT and Utility class tractor market around the World for 30 years? Is there some market share report that you can share to backup that claim? The reason I am asking is because this has been discussed before on this forum and there was no conclusive answer ever given about it.

 

[ovrszd]

I can appreciate that statement :laughing: I also appreciate you being a peacemaker eace:

I'm not trying to dispute you ovrszd but how do you know that Kubota has dominated the CUT and Utility class tractor market around the World for 30 years? Is there some market share report that you can share to backup that claim? The reason I am asking is because this has been discussed before on this forum and there was no conclusive answer ever given about it.

There are members here that might dispute you thinking I'm a peacemaker. My comment was easily supported by numbers of units sold versus unresolved problems.

In regards to Kubota's market share, I base it on World travel. With diligent search I'm sure there's data to support or dispute my statement. I'll let you search for it since you are in doubt.

 

[rScotty]

When we bought our JD 6200, they were exclaiming "We started with a clean sheet of paper" and I thought, how stupid! And sure enough, they built an inoperable transmission. Had to get new gears cut at Manheim and the dealer installed them, but the transmission still wasn't any good. Why throw experience away?

Probably they do it because throwing experience away is a good route to corporate advancement.

Luckily you can pick and choose within their model line. Some people like the new and unknown. But for those who don't, John Deere is also famous for making small changes on the same product over decades.

Our JD310SG is an example of that. JD has been making and improving the 310 since the 1970s. Not all of the changes are advances, but overall it gets better.
rScotty

 

[Agvg]

Old constructions have limits, you can't compete if you don't renew your self, JD meets fierce competition in Europe where new technologies are a selling point. Stagnate and you dies.

Kubota don't do very well in Europe, they have big plans and are building tractor factories to start to play with the big boys.

 

[rScotty]

Old constructions have limits, you can't compete if you don't renew your self, JD meets fierce competition in Europe where new technologies are a selling point. Stagnate and you dies.

Kubota don't do very well in Europe, they have big plans and are building tractor factories to start to play with the big boys.

Is there a dominant brand in Europe for the compact and small utility size tractors? Roughly the 20 to 40 hp range... ?

 

[Agvg]

Tryed to find market share broken down on hp in the EU but find very little. Here in Norway this type of small tractors are somewhat unusual, both Kubota and Iseki did market them selves more as a professional tool for property maintenance and such task, and the price was also adjusted to that, very expensive.

Kubota are struggling to get a functional dealer network, for some reason they don't own the general agent and that have really set them back. Lovol (Foton) has really got good market share and that's tractors below 50hp, do think they have 7% of the total market, but of course the Norwegian market is very small in numbers.

Most hobby tractors are older and larger, if we talking new tractors almost all sales are in the 75hp and larger with exception of Lovol, but Lovol is a strict hobby tractor.

I do believe this is much the same in all Scandinavia and Finland.

Lovols success is a result of the used market is running dry, the prices are high but lower than rest of Europe and Africa so a lot of tractors go to export, Ford, Fiat and MF are sendt out, Zetor is becoming rare because for almost all are returned to the east.

The US is a very different market, you have a lot of land so getting a small farm or homestead seems quite accessible, here it's difficult to find and very expensive. Moste of Europe is densely populated so properties are small and as in Norway small farms probably are keept in the family, my small farm has been in the family since 1650 - 1700.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

my small farm has been in the family since 1650 - 1700.

Holy crap dude! That's older then the US! What generation are you at this point?

 

[Agvg]

The reason is the law, ownership of farms has been regulated so it has been almost impossible to sell it outside the family, bloodline gave you absolute rights, to day it's limited to children and grandchildren, untill in the seventies it was only males that had the right.

This law is in the constitution and has roots back to the viking age so it's over 1000 years old.

 

[rScotty]

SNIP -

Most hobby tractors are older and larger, if we talking new tractors almost all sales are in the 75hp and larger with exception of Lovol, but Lovol is a strict hobby tractor.

I do believe this is much the same in all Scandinavia and Finland.

Lovols success is a result of the used market is running dry, the prices are high but lower than rest of Europe and Africa so a lot of tractors go to export, Ford, Fiat and MF are sendt out, Zetor is becoming rare because for almost all are returned to the east.

The US is a very different market, you have a lot of land so getting a small farm or homestead seems quite accessible, here it's difficult to find and very expensive. Moste of Europe is densely populated so properties are small and as in Norway small farms probably are kept in the family, my small farm has been in the family since 1650 - 1700.

That's real interesting... the differences in how rural land is used in different counties.... Looking at the Lovol/Foton website, all of their tractors seem substantially larger and heavier than our US hobby size. Do I understand you correctly that many of your older used tractors are being exported and replaced with newer ones? Is there actually a market for that? In the US we have a lot of older machinery just lying around. In rural areas old machinery is sometimes collected into huge heaps of retired implements or left to weather in the fields.

I haven't heard of any move to export our retired machinery to other countries. While it is true that much of the older equipment could be made workable again, but there is little interest in doing so.
Along with the waning interest in older machinery, the mechanical skills necessary to keep older machinery running - skills once common to the rural population - are rapidly vanishing from our culture. Ultimately the old machinery seems destined to go into landfills or to be sold as scrap metal.
rScotty

 

[ovrszd]

Holy crap dude! That's older then the US! What generation are you at this point?

We are an infant nation.

 

[ovrszd]

The reason is the law, ownership of farms has been regulated so it has been almost impossible to sell it outside the family, bloodline gave you absolute rights, to day it's limited to children and grandchildren, untill in the seventies it was only males that had the right.

This law is in the constitution and has roots back to the viking age so it's over 1000 years old.

Americans have little understanding of such things. The European Settlers of this continent took the land by force. We have very little understanding or compassion for bloodline or heritage.

I am very rural and Agricultural. My good friend is a very larger farmer, 20K acres tillable. He's 3rd Generation.

 

[ovrszd]

That's real interesting... the differences in how rural land is used in different counties.... Looking at the Lovol/Foton website, all of their tractors seem substantially larger and heavier than our US hobby size. Do I understand you correctly that many of your older used tractors are being exported and replaced with newer ones? Is there actually a market for that? In the US we have a lot of older machinery just lying around. In rural areas old machinery is sometimes collected into huge heaps of retired implements or left to weather in the fields.

I haven't heard of any move to export our retired machinery to other countries. While it is true that much of the older equipment could be made workable again, but there is little interest in doing so.
Along with the waning interest in older machinery, the mechanical skills necessary to keep older machinery running - skills once common to the rural population - are rapidly vanishing from our culture. Ultimately the old machinery seems destined to go into landfills or to be sold as scrap metal.
rScotty

I think this is because the size of our farms has changed dramatically. No one has a use for a combine with a 10ft header or a 10ft wheat drill. Very little heavy tillage done anymore so that equipment is obsolete by design.

As Agvg has pointed out many times, farm size is so much different in the European and Scandinavian countries.

 

[Agvg]

A lot of older MF and Fords in bad shape ends up in Africa and Asia, combines and bailers are going to East Europe, the same with other implements. Old japanese vans and pickups are very attractive for export to Africa, and the pay is quit good for all those cars and equipment. Old VW T3 vans go to South Africa, some French vans go to French Africa and so on.

 

[ovrszd]

A lot of older MF and Fords in bad shape ends up in Africa and Asia, combines and bailers are going to East Europe, the same with other implements. Old japanese vans and pickups are very attractive for export to Africa, and the pay is quit good for all those cars and equipment. Old VW T3 vans go to South Africa, some French vans go to French Africa and so on.

Iraq and Afghanistan have a LOT of old MF equipment in use.

 

[Agvg]

A lot of the larger trucks goes on export, the dealers doesn't bother to sell them locally, larger construction equipment is the same, very hard to sell as companies don't hire in older machines.

 

[Agvg]

Americans have little understanding of such things. The European Settlers of this continent took the land by force. We have very little understanding or compassion for bloodline or heritage.

I am very rural and Agricultural. My good friend is a very larger farmer, 20K acres tillable. He's 3rd Generation.

Yes, the US is young, if I go to church where I have my farm the church was taken in use in year 1200.

In the neighbor county they have this viking inspired church form 1180 built with wood.

 

[Agvg]

Hmm, is this off topic enough?