Jinma 254 slow turnover

SPIKER · May 31, 2005

I say that we need a bit more info:

VOLTAGE AT THE STATER & at the BATTERY and across the starter sol when cranking.

should be 13.4 volts at the starter across the battery terminals. if it is not then there is a loose connection or a battery prob. I killed my battery last weekend 2 weeks back now I left key on for a week and now have a 12 volt battery with a full as it can take charge not good enough (it still starts her now as in warm temps but the alt is outputting a steady 25 amps and that is not good for it. I KNOW I have a hydrameter someplace to see if the cell is simply weak acid or what and I'll see if I can find soem of the X14 stuff (forget what it is but it cleans the plates off the battery when they carrode up.) also I say clean all connections frame to battery wire is a good spot as well as battery+ to starter and battery terms...

MarkM

rkevis · May 31, 2005

Voltage at the starter solenoid is 12.5 .When the starter is energized the voltage drops to about 9.
Put a floor jack under the fel to lift it up so I could tow for a jump start.I will try to jump it tomorrow.
I had the starter looked at by a starter -alternator rebuilder and He said its OK,although an auto parts store said it was bad .How you figga?I tried to get a strap wrench around the crank pully to turn it over by hand,it was too hard to turn but I didn't have a very good grip .
You guys are great

bluechip · Jun 1, 2005

Problem could be battery, Sometimes they will give 12 volts but drop quick under a load. You could charge the battery then take it to auto parts for load test on a meter. Did the voltage return to 12.5 or close once you let off on the starter switch? If not my vote goes for a new battery (fun to spend other's money).

greg_g · Jun 1, 2005

( I tried to get a strap wrench around the crank pully to turn it over by hand,it was too hard to turn but I didn't have a very good grip )
Open the compression release first

//greg//

rkevis · Jun 1, 2005

I pulled it with the truck to jump start it and the tires just spun.
Highest gear, medium gear ,compression lever on and off ,4x4 on and off.Seems like something is binding in the engine.

greg_g · Jun 1, 2005

( Seems like something is binding in the engine. )

Well, it was worth a try. Most of us were trying to help you eliminate all possible problem sources external to the engine, in hopes you could fix it without a teardown.

//greg//

thingy · Jun 1, 2005

Well,,seems to me,,before I would replace engine,[or tear it apart,or take hydro pump off,,like you said you did,I think],,would put new battery,,new starter/silanoild,,,new cables,,and new anything else that may be in your starting system,,,,,,,just appears to me that there must be more to the story than you are letting us know,,,,,I mean,,most people[all but you],,would never assume motor was $%@#!@ up,,if engine wouldn,t turn over fast enough to start it?????unless,,,there was more to story,,,maybe you are a deisal engine expert??,,,who knows??? You could be,,,,,,,,thingy

JINMA224XR · Jun 1, 2005

I have a Jinma 254 and it won't start .Ran fine for 100 hours.
It cranks over very slowly ,battery ,connections and starter are all good .
It seems something is binding in the engine. 

Hey Ray,

I know that this is elementary, but have we checked that the Radiator has water? Or that the Engine was not run low on Oil?

Just trying to leave no stone unturned.

I hope that you don't have engine damage.
Joe

rkevis · Jun 1, 2005

I am a contractor and my crew was running the Jinma moving gravel.It has a slow oil leak and the crew said that they topped it off .The oil is clean as a whistle .The radiator is full .I took off the hydraulic pump .I put in a new battery,Had the starter checked by a rebuilder.It doesnt want to turn over at all by push start.What else is there???Stymied!!

Outbackfarm · Jun 2, 2005

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Outbackfarm · Jun 2, 2005

We had a guy at work years ago that ran a forklift out of oil and damaged the motor, in order to keep his job he filled the motor up with motor oil after the damage was done and claimed that he did not why the motor was destroyed. Sounds to me like this may be the case here.....After all the motor oil was "Clean as a whistle" perhaps it was never used !! I would interview the crew that used it again separately and see if they all say the same thing ! I bet they seized the motor up and are not up to admitting it !

JINMA224XR · Jun 2, 2005

the crew said that they topped it off .The oil is clean as a whistle 

Hey RKevis,

I guess now the question is: Did they top it off after or before?

The symptoms that you discribe are the same as an an engine starved for oil, but not quiet completely siezed solid.

Pull the dip stick out and see if there are any signs of cooked oil on the dipstick. The oil level would probably have been too low for this sign, but I'm sure that others will know of other signs to look for if this is the case. There may be a burnt smell somewhere maybe.

I hope this is not the case and that you do not have engine damage.

Joe

bluechip · Jun 2, 2005

In an effort to bring some good news, parts are reasonable, may be able to get away with some new bearings, and worse case it is a sleeved engine so even if cylinders gauled, you can bring block back to new spec. Complete engines are also available, but cost plus labor on engine replacement may make it easier just to trade the whole tractor and let the dealer fix it in his "down time" (whatever that is, we are still waiting for 2004 down time projects to get done).

Best of luck, let me know if we can help

rkevis · Jun 5, 2005

Gentlemen
Well I got down and dirty with it.
Rod Bearing #1 slightly bad #2 very bad #3 good.
With rod bearings disconnected engine turns freely .
I have not pulled the main bearings ,you can only get to the two middle ones ,but I will change them also.
Tommy at Affordable Tractor has all the parts.I even had him listen to the sound of the starter ,which he did'nt like.
Well problem found but why?It had to have run out of oil or pluged oil passage.I will keep everyone informed.
Ray Kevis

Outbackfarm · Jun 6, 2005

Please send us pictures of the damage, I have not opened up the motor on one of these and I doubt that many others have either. I would love to see what the insides of one of these engines looks like.

Thnaks.
/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

thingy · Jun 6, 2005

Well,you know your motors,,,,who woulda thought just cause it turned over slow,the bearings were burnt up,,hope you can get it fixed,,sounds like your a much better mecanic than me,,,,thingy

rkevis · Jul 18, 2005

Good news
After installing wrong bearings I got the correct ones installed and it starts and runs fine! Looks like the rear seal is leaking enough to make it reasonable to have had my crew run it out of oil.How hard is it to change the rear seal?Would stop leak work?
I've also got a hydraulic leak in the FEL valve box when tipping the bucket down.Although the hydraulic fluid makes my leg silky smooth I would like to fix the leak.
Ray

RonMar · Jul 18, 2005

The Y385 engine pic I just looked at shows the rear main seal(part no. 66) as a one piece seal that is pressed into the flywheel housing. I would say you would have to split the tractor in two, remove clutch, pressure plate and flywheel assemblies to get to that seal.

What type hydraulic valve are we talking about here. It sounds like a bad O-ring on the dump/rollback spool and that can probably be replaced fairly easilly.

JINMA224XR · Jul 18, 2005

Good news
After installing wrong bearings I got the correct ones installed and it starts and runs fine! Looks like the rear seal is leaking enough to make it reasonable to have had my crew run it out of oil.How hard is it to change the rear seal?Would stop leak work?


Hey Ray,

That's Good news indeed. Glad that you did not have to replace your engine.

On the rear seal, I would check to make sure that the bolts are tight. There is an additive that you can put in oil, that is supposed to treat and swell up gaskets, so that they will seal better, but don't know if it will hurt the engine or not. I use the Castrol Oil for older engines in(Pickup & Motorsickle), that is supposed to have the same type of additive, but in less concentration. I don't have any leaks in my Jinma224 yet, so I haven't put any additives in yet. Except that I use the 85w140 in the transmission, but that is because I am on the Gulf Coast, where the temperatures are on the Warm Side.

If you can loosen up the plates enough to squeeze in some "Yama Bond", into the area where the gasket is at, then that will probably stop the leakage. They use Yama Bond to seal Engine Cases, when they have to be split, to make repairs on the bottom end.

Glad you got it going Ray,

Get your tractors Running &
Have a nice day,
Joe /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Ranch_Hand_Supp · Jul 18, 2005

( Good news
After installing wrong bearings I got the correct ones installed and it starts and runs fine! Looks like the rear seal is leaking enough to make it reasonable to have had my crew run it out of oil.How hard is it to change the rear seal?Would stop leak work?

Pretty smart on bearings now??? lol.. I hear ya !! If it looks like a Rear Main Seal is leaking ?? ...then go ahead and try and do a long term fix. [if you make money with it via your contracting buisness]. Yes, You will have to split the Tractor if it is a One Piece Seal. If you replaced the Rear Main Bearing you should have be able to see what type seal you have. Most two piece seals if have seen......half of it is in the main bearing cap that I removed to replace the bearing. I dont know what bearings you replaced???

Make sure everything is tight.

I Would not try a Mechanic in a can.

Ronald