Oil & Fuel Jelled fuel?

[Stonewall]

I had a "first time ever" problem yesterday morning.

I went out to start and exercise the mighty MF 1215 and the hand throttle was stuck tight. I turned it over and got it Putting at idle then tried the throttle again - still stuck. I tried the foot throttle and the revs went up but didn't come back down when I released it. I turned it off and took off the side panels and yep, the throttle lever on the injector pump was stuck open. I was able to push it back to idle and tried to work it free with the throttles but no luck. I started it at idle again and let it run in the barn for about 1/2 hour and it worked fine for the rest of the day and today as well. It has been down in the low 20s to high teens every night for the past 2 weeks but warm during the days ( even had a couple in the mid 60s) and was about 30 when I had the trouble. Would jelled fuel do this? It's the first time it's happened in the 4 years I've owned it. Any ideas are appreciated. I don't have any additives in the fuel and I only use auto grade diesel from the local Conoco station. The tractor had been sitting for about 1 month

TIA - Stonewall

 

[Bird]

Stonewall, since I don't live in cold country, I've never had any experience with jelled diesel, but I sure don't think that's your problem. I think if the fuel jelled, it just wouldn't run. Just sounds to me like the throttle linkage needs cleaning and/or lubricating.

 

[Egon]

I'd maybe be looking at the linkages and seeing if they are free when the lubricating oil on them is cold and viscous.

Egon

 

[chim]

What they said. I had two experiences with jelled fuel. I borrowed a tractor from the in-laws (Case Magnum) that they didn't generally use in the Winter. Last time it had been fueled was in warm weather, with non-winterized fuel. It was one of those "blue-cold" days, and it ran for a while, till the sun got low, and the temps dropped more. It simply stopped in its tracks.

The other was with a Toyota mini P/U with a diesel. It started OK and went about a mile, then started smoking profusely and sounded like it was flooding out. I feathered the accelerator and limped along. A squirt of fuel treatment, and all was well.

Neither time was there any hard operation of the throttle. Sounds more like a linkage problem.................chim

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Likelyhood of gelled fuel at the temperature you were experiencing is pretty minimal.
A far greater likelyhood is that you had ice in your fuel system. You probably got the ice because the fuel you brought home came from an underground tank that hasn't been cleaned out in a while.
Did you look into the fuel tank to see if there is a chunk of ice in the bottom? You could also be getting ice from condensation in the machine's fuel tank.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

fuel starts to jell at 36 degrees, not at 32 as in freezing point. Rarely will it get like actual jello, unless no one goes near the machine for long periods. In my caterpillar trucks I used Howes lubricant and when I couldn't get that, a quart of plain old Dextron tranny fluid was poored in. Where I live, New England, I keep the fuel tank full at all times during cold months. I am mixing a gallon of kero with ten of winter diesel.
Take your fuel filter off, clean it out replace w/clean fuel.

 

[Justaplain]

25% Kero at 15 above and lower bcs

 

[JerryG]

I'm with some of the others. I think that most if not all of the problem is your linkage. I will say that, I have had fuel jell at 27 degrees. When it did, it was as if the tractor was loosing power and smothering do. It finely just stopped. I cleaned the filter out. Put in some PowerService treatment and started it up.

 

[Stonewall]

Thanks for all the input everyone! I'm thinking ICE in the line or elsewhere as the problem did go away completely once the engine was warmed up. The linkage is real simple on that tractor just one lever out of the injector pump with two cables on it from the dash and foot throttles. I'll stop by and pick up some fuel treatment on the way home tonight and make sure that the tank is always full from now on.

 

[Egon]

Check those cables again. My car has cables to the throttle and they will get pretty stiff in cold weather. As the engine compartment warms up this problem goes away.

Egon

 

[Anonymous Poster]

BULLSNOT! If your fuel is jelling at 36 degrees you are buying CRAP fuel that is full of water. Clean #2 oil will NOT gell at -0- degrees.
OTR rigs with fuel tank heaters are condensation magnets that are guaranteed to suck additional condensation if there is room in the tank when the rig shuts down and cools off.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

not bullsnot!! diesel cloud point starts at 36. Look it up! And if you can read, you would see I wrote rarely does it happen.

 

[DocHeb]

I guess it depends on wether your measuring the cloud point (which according to the link below can begin at 32 degrees Fahrenheit), or the gel point, which is lower. There is a simple summary at <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.hastingsfilter.com/engineering/tsb_91-1r.html>Hastings Filter</A>.

If you don't believe the article above, I guess the more technically minded could do the tests for cloud and gel point determination, as diagrammed on <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.me.iastate.edu/biodiesel/Pages/bio18.html>Diesel Fuel Cold Flow Properties</A>. All temps on this link are in Centigrade. There is a considerable difference in "diesel" gel values depending on origin of the fuel (i.e. biodiesel vs. "dino"diesel)

Since the process does begin with clouding of the fluid from wax solidification, and it can start at 32 degrees, I'd guess I'd have to go with the NOT bullsnot.

 

[bigpete]

The question now is...

Does clouding~gelled diesel fuel flow at approximately the same GPM flow rate as bullsnot under similar conditions.

 

[Stonewall]

The cables appear to be fine. The injector pump has a return spring on it so the cables only apply preasure in one direction to increase flow and rpms. When I was futzing with it on Saturday the cables worked easily and when the lever was stuck opened the cables would return to idle by themsleves or with normal operating resitstance. Massey did a good job of "booting" the foot throttle under the platform to keep out dirt. I don't know what it looks like under the dash and was not happy about the prospect of the trouble being under there. You know a dashboard never goes all the way back together again.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Obviously I can read, because I read your inane crap. I repear, BULLSNOT!
Clean diesel fuel does not gell above -0- farenheight. I've heard this crap about gelling #2 oil for 40 years now, and every salesman pushing the line of crap was also pushing a "solution" to a problem that does NOT happen with clean #2 oil.
If you're getting gelling above -0-, your fuel is full of water and overloaded with parafin. The fuel you are getting is crap.
Get a jar of water paste and stick the tank.
FYI, for inqiring minds, bullsnot is close to #4 oil in viscosity.

 

[Inspector507]

Then you obviously never saw the snotty, slobbering bull I used to have growing up........./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Just teasing Franz

 

[MossRoad]

Interesting reading on gelling, clouding and pouring tempertures.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.me.iastate.edu/biodiesel/Pages/bio11.html>http://www.me.iastate.edu/biodiesel/Pages/bio11.html</A>

 

[frank_f15]

never had a problem with jelled fuel, but i don't think it would cause the problem u had. seems more like a linkage problem.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

BigPete,
I would think that gelled fuel is probably thicker....so in the cold it would not flow as well (fresh bullsnot is probably warm).