JD vs Kubota...HELP!

[GlueGuy]

Joyce,

I think the thread Bird was talking about was in "Buying Kubota", and was titled: enough tractor.

As for your questions, the people here at TBN are a pretty diverse group of people, and don't forget there are thousands of us. A few posts here or there really doesn't take too much time (and would take less if I could get a decent connection here /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif). Oh, and I mostly use my tractor on weekends. During the week, I'm a mild-mannered programmer. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

There have been several women on TBN from time to time, although most of them don't seem to stick around very long. Of course, on the internet no one knows if you're a dog (or a cat, or a horse, or a man or a woman).... There very well might be a few women posing as men just to avoid whatever.

Don't get too hung up on which brand you pick. As stated previously, it often comes down to ergonomics, or personal preference. There is certainly a fair share of tit-for-tat between the orange green and blue crowds, but for the most part, it's friendly. I know I don't think any less of the people that own blue or green tractors (well , not too much /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif).

The GlueGuy

 

[r0GuE]

Like I said, if you buy a bigger tractor, I don't blame you. That's always more fun to do. BUT
Yes absolutly you can run a blower and a brush hog on a BX. And for the record, the 22 HP found on the BX is more than some of the B series models.
If I were you, I buy the biggest one I could afford/finance because I like big tractors best. But to fullfill the tasks youv'e described without breaking the budget, BX is one way to go.

Rogue

 

[Bird]

Oops, sorry about that, Joyce. I told you the wrong forum. First mistake I ever made./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif And if you want to do the smiley faces, click on the FAQ at the top of the screen and you'll find the instructions.

I, too, wonder how these guy find the time to spend on here./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I'm retired and in and out of the house all day; stay in most of the time when it's this hot./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

And my bride of 36 years has never touched a tractor. She takes care of the stuff inside the house and her flowers outside; even helps me a little bit in the garden, but doesn't want anything to do with noisy machinery./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

I bought my B2710 two years ago (before they came out with the 2910). Price was $12,600 for the tractor and $2,900 for the front end loader.

Bird

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Bird,

Thanks /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif! This is fun /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif.

My newest question...I saw in another forum (can't remember which) that the MMM is a ground contact unit versus a suspended model. And whomever was writing, said that it leaves marks from the wheels? I think that was the gist.

My literature does not show much beyond a chart that indicates ground contact or suspended. If it is ground contact, than can it still be raised out of the way as we have discussed here previously? This does not seem like an attractive system.../w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif.

My other quandry: my literature makes it look as though the 2710 and the 2910 can have the grass catcher (the charts), but the salesman could not find it in his pricing books. He was looking for one at that moment, for the 2910. I know that most of you guys are not in favor of these grass catchers, but I personally really favor them. After all, if we are going to go crazy with our mowing, shouldn't we also not want clumps of grass all over the velvety acres /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif? (Keep in mind here, that I have some pretty rich clay soil, and the grass grows like crazy, especially in the spring and early summer.)

After I had commented that I could not find the 'enough tractor' under the 7-26 date, I found it on a second try under 7-27. So, I read it. Don't know how I missed it the first time as I was pretty sure I was checking the dates before and after /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif. And speaking of /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif...so were those discussions, but at least the participants backed up opinions with experiental reasons. I respect that.

Joyce

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>If it is ground contact, than can it still be raised out of the way</font color=blue>

Yes.

<font color=blue>guys are not in favor of these grass catchers, but I personally really favor them</font color=blue>

Actually I am in favor of using one; just don't think it's worth the cost for my own use (also too lazy to want to have to keep stopping to empty it/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif). As to whether you leave clumps of grass; depends on how often you mow. In the Spring, I need to mow my yard about every 3 days, and now about every 2 or 3 weeks (our last rain was July 1).

My two year old B2710 brochure shows model numbers for 4 different mowers, then instead of a model number for a grass catcher, it shows "TBA". I've never inquired, but does that mean "to be announced"? I don't even know whether they have one yet or not.

And there's lot of other guys who have the mid-mount mowers who will have to answer questions about them instead of me because I use a rear discharge 3-point mower instead of the mid-mount.


Bird

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Glennmac,

As noted to Bird, I found the 'enough tractor /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. Thanks.

Regarding your 7 points, most of those features were pointed out to me by the dealer, EXCEPT for the tool box feature /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif. I hadn't seen it, and felt that there should be one. Even my husband had commented the same. I've looked at my literature pictures, and it does not show it, but I'll check that out later. It is not crucial to my 'figuring' at this point.

I don't really understand 'displacement' at this point, though I would welcome explanations geared towards the beginner.

Joyce

 

[Snell]

Joyce,
The B2710/B2910 take the GCK60-24B grass catcher... (three bags with 9.75 bushel capacity). Requires a B3097 conversion kit. Total list price of $1,713. Hope this helps in your hunt for the perfect tractor.

Marie

 

[GlueGuy]

Joyce,

The "displacement" is just a measure of how big the engine is. At the most basic level, the easiest way to make an engine more powerful is to increase the displacement. This is done by (1) larger diameter pistons, (2) Longer stroke (how far the pistons go up and down), (3) more cylinders, or (4) some combination of the other 3.

The displacement plus other factors determine the horsepower and (more importantly for tractors) the torque. To you, the figures to compare are the HP and torque. Higher HP is not the end-all for tractors, as it is the torque multiplied by the engine speed. Some manufacturers will make an engine "look" more powerful by getting more HP at a higher RPM. In actual usage, the lower RPM torque is what you want to compare.

The GlueGuy

 

[GlueGuy]

Uh Matthew, er Marie, er huh? /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

The GlueGuy

 

[Snell]

Sorry about that... Matt is my brother... the sales manager here. I am the parts manager and as time sees fit, we alternate reading through the posts and replying if we can be of any help. I should really register under my own name but have been too lazy to log in and log out under different names. Was not trying to cause confusion. So as someone replied to Joyce... there may be more females than you know as active members of the board... just incognito /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif.

 

[JonLeonard]

You might want to check out the grass collectors here -> http://www.carverequipment.com/images/Trak Vac 662- $1650-bx.jpg

It holds more grass than the kubota, and looks like it would be easier to empty.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Joyce, although I live out here in Northern California, I bulit a couple of homes in Maine. Between the town of Camden and Lincolnville. Had a great time in your very splendid state. Even bought a used boat to go out on Peneobscot Bay after working each day. Vinalhaven, Iselesboro were a few of the islands we visited.

P.S. The tractor you need is the Kubota L3710. It is the largest compact Kubota that still has a mid pto for the mid mount mower. New Holland and John Deere have some comparable HP/ mid PTO tractors to investigate as well. The one huge thing you will find is that todays 4WD compacts can do much of what the old 2WD industrial tractors did short of lifting 4000lbs+. I've been looking now for 2 years. No big hurry since my old International 454 does really well, just no loader. Rat...

 

[glennmac]

I dont think I agree that Joyce needs a tractor the size of the 3710, which is a significantly larger frame size than the 27/2910 or the JD 4200-4400's. The reason I say this is because in her first post she says she has an old TLB, which is why she doesnt need a FEL on the tractor she is now considering. So, the additional hydraulic strength of the 3710 would be of no use to her, while the additional bulk and weight may be worse for her mowing chores.

I recently came to the same conclusion after 2 months of re-shopping for a larger tractor. I like the 3710 a lot, but for my needs it is simply to big to serve as a practical lawnmower. In addition, the Kubota 3010, 3410 and 3710 midmount mowers are compatible only with turf tires, which I dont want. (Joyce has yet to raise this bear of an issue.) Finally, as much as I may like a midmount mower, I dont think I would want to wrestle with the one that goes on the 3X10's unless I would very rarely take it off. I'd go to a rearmount and sacrifice maneuverability completely.

Of course, if Joyce want to sell her TLB too, then we have a different can of worms.

Joyce, the additional hp and torque will allow you to pull through some conditions where a smaller engine would bog down.

I may be the one who said the ground contact deck wheels can leave marks. That is true in wet conditions. Of course, in those conditions the tractor wheels will leave even bigger marks. Dont mow in wet conditions. The ground contact wheels can also leave marks in the soil in the boggy ground conditions I have around my low-lying creek. To avoid this, I either wait until the ground is drier and/or simply raise the wheels slightly off the ground with the position control hydraulics and run the deck as a suspended deck. (You need to understand that the Kubota 2910 control labelling will give you better visual "position control" for your 3ph than the JD4200 layout.) Mostly, I simply dont care, because this is far from my house and real lawn. In normal dry mowing conditions it is a trivial to non-issue.

I have never had any grass clumping at all. These are powerful decks running at high speeds. As long as I dont let my grass grow too long and dont mow when it's wet, the grass evenly distributes and "disappears". I also understand the clippings are good for the lawn. I wouldnt buy a big, expensive, klutzy blower/catcher thing just to collect some mulch. But to each her own.

The 2910's have only been out for about a year and when I bought mine the dealer didnt even know it had a toolbox. The place under the seat where the other B's have them is taken up by the suspension system for the improved seat. The toolbox is tucked under the left fender next to the 3ph. You unscrew the knob you see, and slide the box out like a drawer.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Glennmac,

I tend to agree with the issue of anything larger than the 2910. Can't recall if I've mentioned that I mow around a lot of trees, and that I keep planting more. These lovely tractors seem to have wonderful turning radiuses..even some of the larger ones. I DO need to watch physical tractor size for working around smaller trees. And I look to that cross-over feature, where a compact utility tractor serves the lawn tractor needs, as well as being able to run a bush hog or a snow blower.

Leading me to further questions: this is one I have been hesitant to ask, because I am afraid of getting the answer that I don't want /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif. Here goes...this 900' driveway that we have is fairly level. Just a couple of slight rises. The point of concern is, that it is a gravel driveway. It is well maintained. Last year we top dressed the whole thing, so it is not rutted or filled with pot holes and such. In winters previous, when Mr. Plow man does his job, I am in for a spring exercise in picking up stones that have made it to the mowing area. (The driveway and frontage is planted with about 35 maples that will be particularly lovely when I'm 110 years old. So, I mow right next to the driveway, up to the trees and a swath on the other side. I've had to do this in the planting process, and for maintainence,...and it looks nice.)

I know that I don't want to pick up any stones in the snow blower, and I understand that the actual blower height can be adjusted to avoid stones or whatever. Typically, the plowing method leaves our driveway on the narrow side towards the end of winter.

I know that a blower would be slower than a plow. But it would be cleaner, and help with snow drifting and snow banks creeping in as the winter season goes on.

Do I really need to worry about the gravel factor? (Sometime down the road, we want to put down an oil treatment...the technical name I do not know. But the oil hardens into the stone, and leaves you with a rough texture, but hard. No dust. No stones.

Do the 2710 and 2910 both have the additional HP torque that you talk about?

Joyce

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Rat,

Glad you like our lovely state. I travel through Lincolnville and down to Camden every week (my 6 year old son and I take violin lessons in the area) /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. But our little country town is much smaller, and is just fine with me.

See my notes to Glennmac about the larger tractor issue (larger than the 2910). Thanks...Joyce

 

[cowboydoc]

Bird,
Hay is that cheap down there? What does a ton go for? You can't touch hay here for less than $80 a ton or back in Idaho. If it's that much less it would sure be worth it to send a semi down there to get some. The good hay around here goes for $150 a ton.

 

[cowboydoc]

Joyce,
Just to let you know most JD dealers start out at list price. They have about 40% off list before they are at their invoice price. Alot of room to move on the deere. From what I've seen with kubota, except here, they seem to start out off of list.

As far as your hay situation goes there are guys around here that will pay a premium for just grass hay. They don't like alfalfa. For 25 acres of even grass hay you should at least get $75 an acre. Heck if you were by me I would give you that and more to rent it. I just cut my grass hay for my second cutting and got about 3 ton to the acre.

 

[cowboydoc]

Joyce,
If you're thinking about haying someday you need a much bigger tractor! You're going to need at least a 50 hp tractor to run a mower conditioner, best way to make hay, or go with a little less tractor and cut it with a sickle mower, rake it, and bale it. If you want to go round bales you need a bigger tractor, square bales you can get by with a 40 something hp tractor. For equipment you're looking at $500-1000 for a good sickle mower, $500 for rake, 2-4k for a mower condition, 1-4k for a square baler and the same for a round baler. If you had a bigger tractor you could go with a used mo co and round baler in the 5k range for both. Problem with used and getting something you can afford is you are always having to work on balers, even the newer ones. That's the only thing that I hate about making hay is fixing the dang balers all the time.

 

[glennmac]

Bird, that was a heck of a deal. That's 18% off today's list price (15,500 + 3398). I only got 12% off, but I could do better today, knowing what and who I now know.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Your probably right Glenmac, I always go for the bigger ones. I like having the loader lift ability which is why the 3710 is not enough for me. I like having the 4 bar linkage on the bucket too. Thats why only the 4610 or the L48 will do. I recall that Joyce talked about eliminating the mower and tractor for one unit. If mowing is her main concern, I would think the tractors that you and Bird know so much about the 2710 and 2910 and suggest would probably be correct. She has a wide variety to choose from, just don't get her looking at the zero turning radius mowers that Kubota makes, they are incredible mowers with a power bagger to boot. A bit pricey for just a mower but they have two hydrostatic drives and a nice diesel and controls. A heavy duty mower