JD 550 nightmare!!!

[archeryantny]

Recently I've been in the market for a used dozer. I "NEED" it on a 30acre piece I just bought in central NJ to do those things dozers do best (and not so best ). Do I really need one...no, could I get by on renting and hiring out...yes. Would it be easier to rent and hire out of course it would be but then again I've been known to do stuff my way..

Now don't get me wrong I've done, my fair amount of due diligence and quite a lot of research. I've read all of Eddies pleading on why not to own one. I've listened to a lot of smart people tell me I'm nuts, I'm beginning to understand why.

So I find this 1983 JD550 that is being sold locally...I fall in love. It has those classic JD lines, Full Rops, 400 hrs on a rebuilt engine. The undercarriage is brand new, the pins have never been flipped this machine is a real diamond in the rough. All this for under 9,000.....I am golden!!!

I met the owner this morning with my mechanic to take some oil samples. I wanted to send them out to get an analysis of the transmission, engine and hydraulic oils for contaminates.(ie Silicon,copper etc.) Now this is where it gets interesting.

Everything went smoothly until we got to the transmission. He inserted his tube but was having trouble hitting the oil level. He finally got a sample and started to extract the tube. When he was pulling out the tube it got caught on something inside the transmission, he tried to get it "unsnagged" but after 30 minutes he pulled a little too hard and a +/- 1' foot piece of tube broke off in the transmission.

So now I got the owner going ape my mechanic cursing John Deere himself and I'm in the middle. After 4.5 hours out in cold 35 degree driving rain, that little piece of tube is still wedged in that poor dozers tranny. My mechanic, who incidentally has 25years of experience, and is very well respected in my area couldn't believe it, He never saw anything like that. He will be out next tuesday with a scope to see if he could locate the piece, if not he has to basically crack the machine in half.

So now this is where I ask you for your advice......What do you think of my current predicament. Do you think that little piece of tube is gonna hurt that big ole transmission? What the heck should do!!ahhh I'm very sorry to ramble but I need some different points of view. Thank you in advance.

 

[Midsouth]

Sounds like a heck of a perdicament for sure. As far as the tube hurting anything i guess that would depend on what it is made of. If it was plastic i'm going to say it will probably get ground up in the gears. I do know that if i was the seller i would want it out and not at my expense or you would have to buy the machine and go from there. Not trying to be mean just my opinion for what it is worth.

 

[archeryantny]

The tube was a 1/4" pex type plastic tubing. Not mean at all.

 

[EddieWalker]

Interesting story.

If you had come to my place and done that to my dozer when checking it out, I'd be writing down license plate numbers and in a bit of a panic myself. The transmission is big money and having something in there can cause all sorts of damage. Plastic, paper or whatever, it can destroy a transmission. What if if plugs up an oil passage and lubrication isn't able to move around? That would be my first guess. Since that's a gear and clutch machine, I'd also worry about the clutches, but don't know what the possibilities there could be.

Did you get enough for your samples?

400 hours on an engine is brand new. Selling it for $9,000 is a give away price for a machine that he just spent close to that amount on the engine. That makes me nervous.

You said the undercairrage is brand new. That's another $5,000. Just those two things and he has more into it then he's asking for it. My red flags are going up. Something isnt' right. Why is he selling it? Why did he rebuild the engine and put on a brand new undercarraige, just to sell it right afterwards?

Does it have a brand new paint job too? That's a common trick to sell a machine with other issues. Just clean it up and paint it so you don't know where to look for the problems.

How do you know the engine was just rebuilt? Receipts? Who rebuilt it? How much of a rebuild was done on the engine? Was the crank and cam replaced? reground? just new bearings? Where the sleeves replaces and new pistons installed? New injectors? Fuel pump? There is allot to a new engine, but some will call an engine rebuilt by just painting it and changing the oil. Never underestimate what somebody will try. I've seen a JD 710 bakhoe with an injector pluged so that no fuel would get to a bad cylinder. It sounded good and ran fine, but it was only running on 5 cylinders. Something you wouldn't notice unless you were working it hard.

Hope your mechanic can fix this, it's really his responsibility since he caused the problem.

Eddie

 

[john_bud]

Wow! You must have felt about 3" tall!

Buck up, it sounds like a good deal, but I don't think you have much room to negotiate a lower price . I agree, you and your mechanic are responsible for removing the tube. Now, I would probably have bought it out of embarrassment and then dealt with the issue between me and the mechanic.

jb

 

[rtdiggr]

As the old saying goes "you break it you buy it". i know that isn't a great answer. I am sure after some time when you mechanic isn't so tick off he will get it out.

I would be listening to Eddie he has been there.

But every once and awhile there is a good deal out there, and some people need money now.


Shane

 

[archeryantny]

Eddie
Oh eddie the words of your past posts were ringing in my ear during this hole fiasco. We did end up getting enough oil for the samples, results should be back by Wednesday (2 or 3 days). We got more than enough trans oil seeing as we had to drain it all out. We even pulled the screen to see if hopefully the piece dropped down to the bottom, but nothing.

The machine has 4400+ hours on it, and it shows in the paint and various points of wear. Present owner did not rebuild, the guy he bought it from rebuilt it in '03 and those receipts were present. The engine runs strong and starts right up from cold. In '04 the undercarriage was rebuilt new pins bushing new sprockets my mechanic said it was at 90-95%.

The seller is an older gentleman. Hes a builder, but I guess he's trying to liquidate his assets bc of our current non-existent housing market. Like I said earlier the undercarriage was built a few years back but from what I could gather it wasn't really pushed hard after that. Paint is original and typical for a machine of this age, rusted and faded but not horribly.

As far as how much of a rebuild I do not know. He does have the work orders and receipts though so that info is available. I Will let you know when I get that info.

John bud

You are not kidding...I felt like ****. I felt sorry for my mechanic who came out and did me a favor on a Sunday and also for the owner who was inconvenienced and had to spend 4.5 hours out in the cold freezing his butt off.

rtdiggr

I think this is my "once in a while" hopefully everything goes well with these tests and with the extraction. When I get this tube out I'm taking it to my taxidermist and springing for a full body mount.

 

[EddieWalker]

Sounds like the dream deal. With the changes in the way the country is going, there might be more and more of those. I'm half looking/dreaming of finding an excavator in a similar situation. Not sure if I'll go for it or not if I find such a deal, but I can't stop myself from looking. LOL

Good luck on that tube.

Eddie

 

[CurlyDave]

If I was the current owner, I would want that tube out, even if there was only a 0.000001% chance of it causing trouble. I think there is a much higher chance of trouble. Let me ask this question: If you bought the machine would you get the tube out before you ran it?

I think a worse problem is that you shouldn't move that machine until the tube is out. There is a good chance that if it really is stuck between gears it is going to cause a lot of side thrust on a bearing when it goes through the point of closest approach. Plastic doesn't get ground up to nothing. One revolution with a chunk in the wrong spot and you have a really big problem.

Don't get me wrong, I think the tube is stuck somewhere else, but why take a chance.

 

[mjncad]

Even if the plastic tube gets ground up; the little pieces are going to be more inclined to plug up an oil passage or work their way into areas where they will foul up the works even more.

Think of the killer asteroid approaching earth. Most people think the best remedy is to blast it into a pieces; but now you have many unmanageable pieces coming at earth instead of one that is possibly managed.

Here's hoping your mechanic makes it right for all involved.

 

[woodlandfarms]

So here is the what if.... What if this piece was caught in the tranny prior to you guys messing with it (clearly something was wrong as the dipstick was a paint to pull out). You crack the tranny, find out it was this way prior to the crack... Who pays for your guy to do the repair?

Sticky wicket for sure.

 

[Crash101]

Based on the description of the dozer and that $9,000 price, I'd buy it. Used dozers can often become nightmare stories, but I keep looking back at that $9,000 price. You can buy a lot of maintenance and parts and still not have too much invested in the machine.

 

[jda1961]

if i was the owner you would be the new owner, step up and pay the guy. i've never heard of taking oil samples, are you a scientist lol.

 

[ToddW]

if i was the owner you would be the new owner, step up and pay the guy. i've never heard of taking oil samples, are you a scientist lol.

It's actually quite common to take oil samples and send them out for analysis. This can show bearings and other parts of the engine going bad due to specific metals being found in the oil.

 

[Scooby074]

Unfortunately, the tube gotta come out. Ive taken many samples for oil analysis and ive never heard of a tube fetching up to a point where it broke. Those little nylon tubes are really tough.

If the mechanic was doing me a faviour (ie: not being paid) then i guess i'd have to eat the costs of the repair. The real question is if you paid the mechanic, that makes things a little different in my eyes. This little repair could turn into $$$ very quickly.

You did the right thing by taking the samples, while original paint and papers showing a rebuild can be good, repairs on heavy equipment are in a whole different league when it comes to cost and time involved.

Some used equipment dealers can make used car salesmen look like saints. And, horse trading has nothing on equipment sales. Keep those things in mind when you see a "super deal". I have to admit that like others in this thread, my suspicions are up for that machine, in a "rebuilt" condition at that price. If your mechanic checks it out and the oil tests come back good, then your getting a deal, but there's still going to be the cost involved in removing the sample tube if you cant get it using a scope.

 

[archeryantny]

If I was the current owner, I would want that tube out, even if there was only a 0.000001% chance of it causing trouble. I think there is a much higher chance of trouble. Let me ask this question: If you bought the machine would you get the tube out before you ran it?...........
Don't get me wrong, I think the tube is stuck somewhere else, but why take a chance.

I completely agree, the tube must go, there would be way to much left to chance if it wasn't removed. You see, by hiring a mechanic I was trying to lower the odds of me having any catastrophic future problems with this machine. I was made well aware yesterday that he doesn't posses a crystal ball and that with a machine of this age anything can happen. To bad Murphy showed up and enforced his law.

Even if the plastic tube gets ground up; the little pieces are going to be more inclined to plug up an oil passage or work their way into areas where they will foul up the works even more.

Scary to even think about that, kinda makes me queasy .

So here is the what if.... What if this piece was caught in the tranny prior to you guys messing with it (clearly something was wrong as the dipstick was a paint to pull out). You crack the tranny, find out it was this way prior to the crack... Who pays for your guy to do the repair?

Omg your sick how do you come with these things!!! Very good point and with my luck recently, you never know what could happen. I don't even want think about that happening, but If it was the case I would make sure that this machine was brought back to its starting condition. The mechanic would be taken care of, not as much so as if he was called to crack the machine in 1/2, but taken care of nonetheless.

if i was the owner you would be the new owner, step up and pay the guy. i've never heard of taking oil samples, are you a scientist lol.

As you probably know by now oil samples are very common and a good idea to perform. Everything is hinging on the oil samples. If they come back
with good results, I'm the proud new owner of 1983 JD550 dozer, if it comes back bad results I will see to it that the machine is brought back to its original tube free state...........whatever that may entail.

If the mechanic was doing me a faviour (ie: not being paid) then i guess i'd have to eat the costs of the repair. The real question is if you paid the mechanic, that makes things a little different in my eyes. This little repair could turn into $$$ very quickly.

I was paying the mechanic for the tests, but I am not the type of person make him suffer just bc he made a mistake after all we are all human. He will be compensated. He wont make as much as he would normally, but I'll definitely take care of him.

 

[archeryantny]

Hey scooby, is that an l35 your on in your avatar?

 

[Diamondpilot]

I agree. You are responsible for getting out the tube, as you already admit.

Just curious where you are? I know a guy with tons 2-3 dozers, 2-3 excavators, Case BH, and a few dump trucks for sale. Sounds like the same guy.

Chris

 

[archeryantny]

Im in NJ. Seems like a common trend nowadays though.

 

[archeryantny]

Sounds like the dream deal. With the changes in the way the country is going, there might be more and more of those. I'm half looking/dreaming of finding an excavator in a similar situation. Not sure if I'll go for it or not if I find such a deal, but I can't stop myself from looking. LOL

I'll keep my eyes out, There are a lot of businesses going out and amazing deals to be had. A customer of mine just picked a 2006 JD 110 650 hours 3 different sized bh buckets, forks, plow, fully enclosed w heat and ac, sitting on pequea trailer for 25,000. Right place at the right time I guess. For buyers its only going to get better.
Heck if I find you an excavator I'll even deliver it for you, no charge......just let me shoot a hog, we don't have them up here.