JD 4320 Purchasing Questions...

FLDave · Jun 27, 2004

Hello everyone,

I've been busy getting quotes for a new JD 4320, 4wd, eHydro, 400X FEL.

I'm getting real close to being able to make a purchase. My businesses fiscal year ends June 30. I bought my Dodge 3500, 4x4 Diesel this fiscal year. I want to get a tractor for next (July 1, 2004-June 30, 2005) fiscal year.

I have a couple dilemmas I need help with:

First I want to say thank you to Billy Passmore (BillyP), Mike McCloskey (rockeyridgefarm), Richard (coyboydoc), and everyone else that tried to help me make an intelligent decision.

1.) I have 15 acres of property. They are starting to build our house on it next week. It is pasture with a cross creek basically. I need to mow, brush hog (MX6?), maintain a 800 ft. crushed shell driveway, add 800 more feet of driveway, and move dirt forever until the property drains correctly. I will also have fences to install, outbuildings to build, and livestock to keep. I am also planning on using an acre for Palm Tree production. Last but not least, I need to maintain my (3) 1,000 cu. yd. turtle ponds.

Is a JD 4320 (48 hp/40 hp PTO), 4wd, w/FEL going to be enough or too much? I originally was set on a JD 4710 before I drove the 4320.

2.) I know everyone preaches to buy from a close dealer. The problem is this:

Closest dealer (45 minutes away):
$28,709.00 JD 4320, 4wd, eHydro, 400X FEL, tax

Next closest dealer (1 1/2 hours away):
$28,152.00 JD 4320, 4wd, eHydro, 400X FEL, tax

Dealer 6 hours away:
$24,200.00 JD 4320, 4wd, eHydro, 400X FEL

If I drive 6 hours I save between $3,952.00 and $4,509.00. I don't know what everyones financial situation is but for that money I'm driving. Anyone dare to say why I should buy locally with this kind of price difference?

3.) Is this quote ($24,200.00/JD 4320 4wd, eHydro, 400X FEL) a pretty good deal?

4.) I want to know all the specifications before I buy also. Are they being released July 1?

Sorry but who else can I ask?

Thanks a lot,

P.S.-Despite the price differences all of the John Deere Dealers treated me well. The ones that were busy I had to wait for, in business that's just how it goes. I went to a local Kubota/NH dealer and that wasn't the case. I'm still waiting for the salesman to return my call a week after visiting their dealership and telling them I was ready to buy.

rockyridgefarm · Jun 28, 2004

( 1.) I have 15 acres of property. They are starting to build our house on it next week. It is pasture with a cross creek basically. I need to mow, brush hog (MX6?), maintain a 800 ft. crushed shell driveway, add 800 more feet of driveway, and move dirt forever until the property drains correctly. I will also have fences to install, outbuildings to build, and livestock to keep. I am also planning on using an acre for Palm Tree production. Last but not least, I need to maintain my (3) 1,000 cu. yd. turtle ponds.)
I think you are sized fine. The MX6 is great, and if you want that, the 4x20 is the way to go...

( Is a JD 4320 (48 hp/40 hp PTO), 4wd, w/FEL going to be enough or too much? I originally was set on a JD 4710 before I drove the 4320.)
If you want an MX6 (you should) and have the room, yup. But I think a 4120 should be FINE, why not go that route?

( 2.) I know everyone preaches to buy from a close dealer... ...If I drive 6 hours I save between $3,952.00 and $4,509.00.

3.) Is this quote ($24,200.00/JD 4320 4wd, eHydro, 400X FEL) a pretty good deal?)
A brand new model is always tricky. There is limited availability, so they may get priced a little "high". If you buy from a dealer, I would suggest you plan on using them for service. Do not assume the local guy will always ive top notch service if you didn't buy from him. Have you used Deere's dealer locator and checked all your options? How about taking your bids to the close dealer and saying "what can we do to close the gap?" Again, would a 4120 work? At first look, it seems there is almost no difference, and once the warranty is out, a little tuning could turn a 4120 into a 4320...

( 4.) I want to know all the specifications before I buy also. Are they being released July 1?)
So do we. Why not ask to photocopy the specs from an owners manual at the dealer. Then you can post them and we'll throw the tbn brain trust (and me, too) at it.

HorseHusband · Jun 28, 2004

Florida Dave,

I bought a 4310 for a similarly sized property about a year ago. I think it's an ideal size for the property. I don't know much about the new 4320's so I can't give you any help on your pricing question.

As a newbie owner, I am very, very happy in hindsight that I bought from a local dealer with an excellent reputation for service. I have had a couple of problems in the year since buying my tractor, and the convenience of being just 30 minutes away from the dealer has made things much easier. I know that there is a steep price differential in your particular situation, but I would recommend thinking hard about servicing issues when you make your final decision.

If your pasture is not brutal, one possible way to reduce your costs is to go with the LX rotary cutter rather than the more powerful MX cutter. So far, my LX6 has chopped through everything I've fed it (but others may have had different experiences). If this works for your situation, my recollection is that the LX cutters are about 2/3 the price of the MX cutters.

Best of luck!

Kyle_in_Tex · Jun 28, 2004

I think I'd drive the 6 hours. I'm lucky, my dealer prices things good to everyone. His price if I recall correctly, for a 4320 ehydro, 400 FEL, R4's, is $24,700

So your 6 hour drive price is better than my dealer. I would not drive/haul 6 hours for $500 but for over $3000 it is a no brainer...Kyle

om21braz · Jun 28, 2004

I'd get something in writing (fax/email, etc.) from the low-price dealer and see if I could get a local dealer in that ballpark before making the drive. That also might save a 6 hr. drive to have the guy tell you he made a mistake on his quote too. Good luck on the 4320, it looks to be a great machine !

Woodbeef · Jun 29, 2004

One question: Is the State of Fla going to expect you to pay tax on your out of State purchase?

Well ok two questions I guess...what are the prices locally minus the tax?

turbo36 · Jun 30, 2004

In my State (Michigan) you can get a sales tax exemption for a farming operation.

FLDave · Jun 30, 2004

Hello All,

Thanks for all the help, here are a few answers to clarify my thoughts.

( Again, would a 4120 work? )

I was targeting the 4320 instead of the 4120 because the 4320 has that "magical" 40 hp PTO. I didn't want to go overboard on size and hp but I also didn't want to be caught short either.

July is pretty much here so if my accountant gives me the ok I'll be able to get serious. I still want to be able to review all the specs on the unit first so I can make a comparative analysis.

( ...the convenience of being just 30 minutes away from the dealer has made things much easier. )

( How about taking your bids to the close dealer and saying "what can we do to close the gap?" )

To be quite frank, the dealer closest to me is $4,509.00 higher in his price. This is AFTER I told him my lowest quote. What gives me the impression he will take care of me anyhow? Salesman come and go in this world. I may have to bring my unit in for repairs rather than have them bring it in for me but the bottom line here is $4,509.00.

I'll try to get quotes from a few more FL dealers to see if I can close the gap but I have my reservations. Many of the FL dealers I went to complained about most of the farms going to GA to buy their tractors and to save sales tax.

( I think I'd drive the 6 hours. )

I'm already sniffing around as to where I can buy/borrow a trailer.

( I'd get something in writing (fax/email, etc.) from the low-price dealer and see if I could get a local dealer in that ballpark before making the drive. )

I used to buy equipment when I was a Mechanical Engineer. That's usually how I learned get good prices...you tell your bidder you are getting quotes so he knows he can't sucker you too badly. I get at least 3-5 competitive quotes. Yes, the quotes I have have been faxed over on the bidders letterhead. The model numbers and and optional specifications are listed on the bid also.

( One question: Is the State of Fla going to expect you to pay tax on your out of State purchase?
)

Im not sure. GA has no sales tax for tractors purchased for ag usage. FL has 3.5% fo ag usage. If I buy the tractor in GA then I'm not sure if FL will get me later on.

I better go and get to work...any more thoughts?

Thanks,

timb · Jun 30, 2004

Dave - while you're at it - just out of curiosity ask him why the 4320 costs more than the 4120 (and why the 4520 costs more than the 4320...etc.,.). /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

From everything I've been able to unearth so far on the 4000 Twenty series tractors - there are no listed spec or even part # differences inside the engine. Short of getting the tech manuals - it sure sounds like the hp comes from some some pump/relief valve setting somewhere.

Turning a screw another 1/2 turn is worth $1500?

joecdeere · Jun 30, 2004

lot's of blank places, but i'll hunt for more complete info for you

Requested comparison is displayed below:
MANUFACTURER John Deere
MODEL 4320
Engine
Manufacturer John Deere 4024T
Aspiration Turbo
Cylinders/Displacement, cu. in. (liters) 4 / 148.9 (2.44)
Cylinder Liners Cast-in-Block
Fuel Tank Cap., US Gal.(L)(Open; Cab) 14.5 (54.9)
Standard ---
Optional ---
MANUFACTURER John Deere
MODEL 4320
Performance
Advertised PTO HP (kW) @ Rated RPM 40.5 (30.2) / 40 (29.8) @ 2400
Official PTO HP (kW) @ Rated RPM ---
@ Standard PTO @ Eng RPM ---
Maximum @ Eng RPM ---
Engine Gross HP(kW) @ Rated Speed 48.1 (35.9) @ 2400
Max Unballast Drwbr HP(kW)@ Eng RPM ---
Maximum Torque (PTO) @ RPM, lb.-ft (Nm) ---
Max Torque Rise(80% Rted Spd)@Eng RPM ---
Maximum Torque Rise % (PTO) @ Eng RPM ---
MANUFACTURER John Deere
MODEL 4320
Fuel Use, U.S.Gal/hr & HP hr/gal at:
PTO @ Rated Eng RPM ---
Standard PTO Speed @ Eng Speed ---
Maximum PTO Power @ Eng RPM ---
Maximum Engine Power @ Eng RPM ---
Max Unballasted Drawbar Power@Eng RPM ---
75% Load, Full Engine RPM (Unballasted) ---
75% Load @ Reduced RPM (Unballasted) ---
MANUFACTURER John Deere
MODEL 4320
Transmission
Std Transmission; Forward/Reverse Hydr Rev 12x12
Opt Transmission; Forward/Reverse eHydro / 3 Range
Left-Hand Reverser Yes / NA
On-The-Go Shifting (Yes/No/Partial) Yes / NA
Direction Reverser; Forward/Reverse Yes / NA
Clutch; Wet/Dry Wet Disc
Creeper No / Optional SpeedMatch
MANUFACTURER John Deere
MODEL 4320
Power Take-Off (PTO)
Standard Rear @ 540 RPM
Optional Mid @ 2100 RPM
Speeds @ RPM ---
Control Independent
MANUFACTURER John Deere
MODEL 4320
Hydraulics
Type Open Center
Pump Rated Output, Gpm (L/min) 17.1 (64.6)
Standard ---
Optional ---
Rated Flow @ One SCV Steering 5.1 (19.3)
Max Output @ SCV Couplers GPM (L/M) Implement 12 (45.3)
Maximum Operating Pressure (PSI) 2500
Maximum Hydraulic Power (HP) ---
Draft Control Type Position Control
Remote Control Valves Available ---
Hitch Category (SAE Designation) Category I
HitchLift Cap. Lb.(kg)@24"Bhnd Lift Pt. 2500 (1134)
Standard ---
Optional ---
Sensing Type ---
MANUFACTURER John Deere
MODEL 4320
Final Drive
Type Planetary
Differential Controls ---
Availability ---
Front ---
Front & Rear ---
Engage On-the-Go Rear Differential Lock Yes
MANUFACTURER John Deere
MODEL 4320
Operator Station
Rollover Protective Structure
Rigid - Foldable - Telescopic Foldable
Platform - Flat/Straddle Flat
Gear Shift Location - Console/Floor Left Hand Side
MANUFACTURER John Deere
MODEL 4320
Cab
Doors ---
Platform - Flat/Straddle ---
dB (A) Rating ---
Seat Suspension System ---
MANUFACTURER John Deere
MODEL 4320
2WD Dimensions
Wheelbase, in. (mm) NA
Front Tread Range, in. (mm) NA NA
Rear Tread Range, in. (mm) NA
Minimum Rear Tread Setting, in. (mm) NA
Front Axle Clearance, in. (mm) NA
Turning Radius w/Brakes, ft. (m) NA
Turning Radius w/o Brakes, ft. (m) NA
Unballasted Operating Weight, lb. (kg) NA
Approx. Ship Wgt, lb.(kg) Open; Cab NA
MANUFACTURER John Deere
MODEL 4320
MFWD Dimensions
Wheelbase, in. (mm) 71.5 (1816)
Front Tread Range, in. (mm) ---
Front Axle Clearance, in. (mm) ---
Turning Radius w/Brakes, ft. (m) 9.2 (2.8)
Turning Radius w/o Brakes, ft. (m) 9.8 (3)
Limited Slip Differential ---
Unballasted Operating Weight, lb. (kg) ---
Approx. Ship Wgt, lb. (kg) Open; Cab 3700 (1679)
MANUFACTURER John Deere
MODEL 4320
Standard Tires
2WD
Front NA
Rear NA
MFWD
Front 8.00-16 R1
Rear 13.6-28 R1
MANUFACTURER John Deere
MODEL 4320
Miscellaneous
Underhood Muffler Yes
Joystick SCV Control Yes
Inboard Planetary Yes
Axle Type Flanged
Brakes - Type and Control Wet Disk
Country of Origin ---
Ballasting Restrictions, lb. (kg) ---

Woodbeef · Jun 30, 2004

Hmmmm..........so by the look of this list these new Deere engines are sleveless.....

FLDave · Jun 30, 2004

The JD 40-10 Series Yanmar Cylinders were "Sleeveless" (Cast-in-Block)...I believe the NH TC Series and Kubota L Series Cylinders are "Sleeveless" also.

The new specification and comparison functions for the 40-20 series are now up and running on the John Deere web site. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Whiskey (Dave) directed me to a FL dealer about 1 1/2 hours away that matched my lowest quote.

Here's the quote:
$20,800.00 (1) JD4320 tractor, 4wd, Hst transmission
$ 3,400.00 (1) JD400X FEL
$24,200.00 TOTAL

The quote is good for 90 days and says I have the choice of tires. It also says free delivery and pick and delivery during warranty. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Thanks Whiskey! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

The only bad thing is that now I have to pay the FL 2.5% sales tax. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Well...what does eveyone think?

Thanks,

Whiskey · Jul 1, 2004

FLDave:

Yepper....Glade you guy's could come to terms. Humm this calls for a drink me thinks /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif well, maybe I'll wait till after work /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

ps: I talked to your accountant early this morning after he spent all night crunching the numbers and he said "go ahead and buy the tractor your loaded" his words not mine!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

om21braz · Jul 1, 2004

If that is the machine you want, it sounds like a really good price for the new series - and I would'nt be bothered paying 2.5% tax on it. Good Luck Dave !

rockyridgefarm · Jul 1, 2004

That sounds like a great deal.

If you go outta state, you probably still owe the tax, might as well pay it.

In OK the tax is almost 10%...

timb · Jul 1, 2004

Woodbeef - In all the spec scrubbing I did over the last couple of years - I think there is only one CUT engine out there that is sleeved (but I forget which - its not one of the big three - maybe the big Agco units?).

Having helped rebuild a Ford NAA that was sleeved and watched other old iron get 'freshened' the same way - I appreciate that approach. This is likely only an issue for really high hour examples - so a good question is just how many hours can you expect to put on a non-sleeved CUT diesel (assume it's very well taken care of, oil changes and the like) before it may possibly need a re-bore and oversized rings? 3000 hours? 5000 hours? 8000 hours?

If I had my druthers I'd wish they used a sleeved design but chances are the Yanmar or the Twenty series JD engines (or any of the other well-made CUT diesels) will run longer than I will at this point.

Remember that while a lot of old gas tractors used sleeved engines - there are a lot of famous examples that didn't - and are still running strong. (Farmall Cub's, the little A-C's).

om21braz · Jul 1, 2004

Just a note - I got to see a new 4520 power reverser this afternoon up close and personal. Nice lines ! Hoped maybe they've have a brochure so I could help those interested out. The salesmen on duty at the time, poor fellows, did not know what horsepower it was, did not know it was turbo'ed, did not know when they'ed ever see another one and did'nt have any brochures. Maybe they'll get educated before they get another - they need ya'lls help !

Woodbeef · Jul 3, 2004

Just found it interesting that Deere has went sleeveless after all the years of wet-sleeved engines.

trippert · Jul 5, 2004

Howdy all---I have been reading and learning thru your posts for the last couple of weeks. I'd like to thank everyone now for all the good stuff about the 4020 series and prices. It's already given me some insight at my local dealer. He priced a 4320&400x eHydro for $26700--looks like we have a lot more talking to do...

timb · Jul 6, 2004

Woodbeef - well, the Yanmar's were sleeveless - but these are not new engines. They seem to hail from a discontinued line of Deere skid steers -200-somethings. So it looks like Deere has had both approaches around for awhile.