Is your tractor an ATV?

[Henro]

In another thread here, BCZoom mentioned that in PA, the law is that every ATV, even if it resides and is used on private property, and never leaves that property, is by law required to have a license plate on it.

Does this make any sense? I was going to post the following message in the other thread, but decided start a new thread because the original thread title does not relate to this subject.

Comments/reactions anyone?

Cirtificate or Origin Thread

Brian,

(or anyone, just thinking out loud here really... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Does that Kubota ATV you have also need a registration plate here in PA? I guess we would call it a UV (utility vehicle) so maybe a plate is not required.

How does one determine if he has an ATV or not? Really curious about this. Handle bars and 4 wheels = ATV? As compared to steering wheel and 4 wheels = something else, but not an ATV? Or is it motorcycle type seat VS bench seat?

I don't have one, don't want or need one, so it does not really matter to me personally. But laws like this stink in my opinion...

What if you do have an ATV and the engine is not in it? Still need a plate because it is parked on your own land, and you might coast it down a hill?

My (and every other tax payer here) tax money is being used to manufacture license plates to be put on things that have no need to have them on them. Kind of irks me big time to hear this.

What's coming next? Anyone want to guess?

One can have a motorcycle on his land without a plate on it right? How do these two things equate? Doesn't make sense to me.

Wonder when, if ever, someone will get the first fine for having an ATV on his own property without that license plate?

I suppose there is a definition of what an ATV is somewhere...

Found it. PA ATV is defined here...

Click here to view PDF document

By PA's definition, if it is a "motorized off-highway vehicle which travels on 3 or more inflatable tires" it is an ATV.

Hummm...both my tractors, and my old garden tractor, and the even older dead-with-a-blown-engine garden tractor all have three or more inflatable wheels and are off road vehicles...

Maybe for laughs I should try to get a plate on the old sears garden tractor just to see what happens... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

On second thought, I don't think so... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[johndeere2210]

Maybe for laughs I should try to get a plate on the old sears garden tractor just to see what happens...


Henro, please don't kick a sleeping dog!!

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="red">
Maybe for laughs I should try to get a plate on the old sears garden tractor just to see what happens... </font>

<font color="green">
Henro, please don't kick a sleeping dog!!
</font>

I dunno, seems to me that it is better for all of us if Henro kicks that dog in HIS state and lets us know what happens. Certainly I'd prefer nobody come to my state and do that!/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[DUMBDOG]

Not sure, but thinking that we might be missing the point in have all of the atv's registered, it might not be just to have the money from the registration which is used for whatever but the collection of the sales tax on the transaction which in a state like yours could add up to be big bucks for the coffers of the state. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[PineRidge]

<font color="blue"> In another thread here, BCZoom mentioned that in PA, the law is that every ATV, even if it resides and is used on private property, and never leaves that property, is by law required to have a license plate on it.
</font>

As I understand it here in Ohio if you have a car on your private property it also must be tagged. They don't care if you bought it to part out or even if it doesn't or can't run they still want a tag on it. Good thing junk yards are exempt. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[hobbyfarm]

Howdy Henro,
I don't get it, does the state just need more taxes or what?? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[jinman]

Bill, I believe many things meet the ATV definition, but then you need to go through the list of vehicles that are exempt. For example, tractors and utility vehicles in Texas can be exempted as farm vehicles. It's not enough to know the general definition, you also have to check if a specific vehicle has an exemption for a specific declared use.

...I think. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[eee]

As I understand it here in Ohio if you have a car on your private property it also must be tagged. They don't care if you bought it to part out or even if it doesn't or can't run they still want a tag on it.

Are you sure about that ? I mean really sure about that ??? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[PineRidge]

I guess it would be easy enough to check out. Just call your local police and say, "Hey I live at (your address) and I have this car sitting on my property with no plates. Is that a problem for you all?"

Then see if they send a cruiser over to your home. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Please don't be using my home address either. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[beenthere]

Henro

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( How does one determine if he has an ATV or not? Really curious about this. Handle bars and 4 wheels = ATV? As compared to steering wheel and 4 wheels = something else, but not an ATV? Or is it motorcycle type seat VS bench seat? )</font>
I've heard of the seat being a 'divider' between license (street use) and no license (off-the-street use) around here. A gator-type vehicle (utility?) with bench seats couldn't be on the streets, but an ATV (if registered) could be, and it was the seat that was the classifier.

 

[txdon]

<font color="blue"> How does one determine if he has an ATV or not? </font>


With all the hybrid electric cars now days does that make my electric motorize golf cart with AT tires an ATV? Then would that also include the children's electric transport toys? Where does it stop? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[goodoleboy]

Henro,
I dont see a real problem associated with cost.
1.Their is no fee to the tag for use on ones own property.
2.Cost to state is few dollars at most per ATV.
3.The plates probaly save hundreds or thousands of man hours yearly trying to track who owns what if they ever need to find out.

A few months back there was a topic on the problems of 4 wheelers tresspassing I assume you chimed in on that topic. Dont you think from that it makes sense to have plates to catch bad guys doing wrong?

 

[dbelisle]

In New Hampshire you do not have to register a ATV to run on your own property.

But you have to be careful , The police patrol the trails in our town . You could be picked up for DWI, driving an ATV , UV ,or pickup on your own property. I know people it has happened to . Most of the trails in NH are on private property.

I was at police training meeting for ATV patrol and they where told it is possible to charge someone with DUI if there on a riding mower mowing there lawn under the influance.
NH is hard on drinking and driving.

The definition of an ATV by the state of NH.

1 Can not weigh more than 600 pounds or 1000 with a rider.

2 tires contain no more that 5 pounds of air.

3 ATVs can not be wider than 52 inches.

A Mule, Kutota RTV, or other UV could not be registerd as an ATV in NH.

I have been told you can register an ATV , or UV as a tractor when you use it for work so you can take it on other property or out on the roads.
( It has to be used for work and you can't just be riding. )

I have not tried that one so I can't swear to it.

An RTV or any UV vehicle would not have to be registered in NH if you don't venture off your own property.

So in NH an tractor may not be an ATV , but an ATV could be a tractor.

Dave in NH

 

[Robert_in_NY]

In NY we have the same law. All atv are to be licensed unless for farm use. This means if you own one then you need a plate. However, no one enforces this law except DEC and even then it is only if they catch you off your land or on state land or frozen lakes.

 

[bczoom]

Sorry guys. Been offline for the weekend.

Henro - Yes. My RTV is considered an ATV by the state. I do have a license plate on it. Due to its size/weight, it falls into the "Class 2 ATV".

Like Dumbdog mentioned, the sales tax the state is collecting is big time money. The PA law says all ATV's have to have a title. To get a title, you have to prove sales tax has been paid. If you haven't paid sales tax (i.e. purchased from an individual), you have to pay sales tax to get your title. So, we all have to pay sales tax whether you use recreationally, on a farm, on your own property...

I have considered submitting for a title/registration/plate for my son's smallest ATV. Sticker on the side says Kawasaki but it's manufactured by Fisher Price and goes by the classification "Power Wheels". If they did send me a title, plate... I'd be contacting my legislator. And yes, even the kids 50cc ATV's have plates.

Dave in NH - I'm surprised by NH's definition of an ATV. In particular
"1 Can not weigh more than 600 pounds or 1000 with a rider." Pretty much all ATV's in the 500cc and up are more than 600 pounds.

and

"2 tires contain no more that 5 pounds of air." So if someone puts 6 psi in their tires (which is commonly the mfgr's recommendation), it's no longer an ATV???

goodoleboy - Re. "I dont see a real problem associated with cost."
That's what the state has been telling us... but, using a common scenario.
Someone buys an ATV from a friend.
He now has to:
Get a title - $22.50
Get liability insurance - lets say $40.
Get a registration/plate - $20
Now that it's a registered vehicle, comprehensive insurance is now dropped from your homeowners policy. Buy comprehensive insurance - lets say $50.
Pay taxes - $320 for a $4K ATV.

So that's $362.50 up front, $90/year for insurance, $20 for 2 years worth of registration.
In my case (5 ATV's + the RTV), that adds up to quite a bit of money. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Tractors4u]

I understand licensing and registratration for an "on road vehicle".

The money it costs is a tax that should go to paving roads, putting up traffic signs and paying Police and such. The license plate on the vehicle serves a purpose. You see the person driving the vehicle doing something stupid, you report the tag number and the police run the tag number when they pull the vehicle over.

Maybe I have missed something?

If those are the only reasons, then what purpose is there for having a tag on an ATV that will be ridden in my front yard?

Here in Alabama there is no license plates on ATVs and there isn't even a title. Bill of sale, but no registration title like you get with an automobile.

 

[bczoom]

Brent,

I'm not sure if I can answer where the money collected goes without the response becoming political but I'll give it a try.

The money is going to the "Department of CONSERVATION and NATURAL RESOURCES" instead of the "Department of Motor Vehicles". Hmmmm. Many wonder if the money collected is to keep the ATV's out instead of building trails to let us in.

Why do I need a plate for riding in my yard? I have absolutely no idea... As best I can figure is that again, to get a plate, you have to pay the taxes first.

BTW - After paying all that, if you want to ride on trails in a national forest instead of a state forest, it's another $35.

 

[dbelisle]

In New Hampshire , registration is done on ATV and snowmobiles through the NH fish and game.

And I stand corrected , It doesn't say 600 pounds anymore, just 1,000 pounds with rider, and the tire pressure is 10 PSI not 5.

It cost us $54.00 to register an ATV.

$2.00 goes to the registering agent.
$1.00 goes to the search and rescue fund
$29.70 goes to Fish and game for training programs
and contract law enforcement ( like our local police out on the trails. There time out there is funded buy our registration fees.)

$31.30 goes to the Bureau of trails . That is broken down into bureau overhead , maintance programs, and grant programs.

http://www.nhtrails.org/Trailspages/ATVpages/ATVlaws.html

Our Club applied for a grant last year and the state funded
80% of our Kioti DK-40 with a backhoe.

We have a Polaris 6 wheeler with tracts , three tandem axel dump trailers for working in the woods, and saws and hand tools all paid by grant in aid from our registrations.
We also apply and recieve grant money for culverts, gravel, bridge material , and Hard Pack.

The members put in over 600 hours out on our trail system this summer . We have about 70 miles of trails.

So almost every dollar we pay out in registration comes back into the sport. The legislators have written laws to protect the landowers from lawsuits.

Your handed a law digest when you register your machine.
It says in bold print

It is reconized the OHRV operation may be hazardous. Therefore, each person who drives oe rides an OHRV accepts the dangers inherent in the sport and shall not maintain an action against an owner, occupant or leese of land for any injuries which result from such inherent risk, dangers or hazards.

Also any landowner that give permission for a trail on there property is covered by a blanket $1,000,000 insurance policy provided by the Bureau of trails.

http://www.sullivancountyatv.org/

Dave in NH

 

[bczoom]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The members put in over 600 hours out on our trail system this summer . We have about 70 miles of trails.

So almost every dollar we pay out in registration comes back into the sport. The legislators have written laws to protect the landowers from lawsuits.
Dave in NH )</font>

Dave,

Sounds like you're in much better shape than we are.
Here in PA, I believe there's about 150 miles total of trails on state lands. I don't have a number for local lands but I don't think it's much.

 

[Henro]

<font color="blue"> A few months back there was a topic on the problems of 4 wheelers tresspassing I assume you chimed in on that topic. Dont you think from that it makes sense to have plates to catch bad guys doing wrong?
</font>

Goodoleboy,

No, frankly I don't think it makes any sense at all. I see it as causing grief to those who do not want to harm anyone else or do anything wrong.

Look, I don't have guns and I don't have any ATVs. But I do happen to fall towards the school of thought that says "ban guns and only the bad guys will have them..."

Waste resources (and honest peoples time) putting plates on EVERY ATV in the state, and in the end what will the situation turn out to be? The bad guys will still do the bad things.

If laws were the solution to bad behavior, the prisons would be empty rather than over flowing... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

You asked, I answered, hope this thread stays on track... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif