Is this right? I can tow MORE with a bumper pull than I can a Gooseneck?

[Xfaxman]

I could certainly be wrong here, but the way I understand it, is that for the same weight GN vs BP, you would normally have more weight on the truck for the GN since you typically have 15%-25% tongue weight, whereas the Bumper Pull would typically have 10%-15% tongue weight. This would leave more weight available to put "stuff" in the bed.

I know a lot of you are die hard GN fans, and like I said I'm not arguing that a bumper pull is better, I'm just surprised that I can pull more with the bumper pull that's all, regardless of the fact that the GN would tow "better".
----------------------------

------------------------------

Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong, but I don't see anyway that an equivalent sized GN can carry more than an equivalent sized BP??? In your first post you ran the GN numbers with the 25% max recommended tongue weight, try it again with 15%, that or less is what mine usually is.
I can definitely see why it would carry it better though.

My 2006 2500HD GMC Duramax weighs 7300 pounds, front axle is 4100, rear axle is 3200. 14K trailer is 18' plus 4' pop-up dovetail and a metal deck. Empty weigh is 5000 pounds, 1000 on the ball, 4000 on the axles

This is the heaviest load that I have pulled. I would not want to pull it on a equivalent sized BP.


Went across the scale at 24,940 total, truck and trailer. 12,640 on the deck, 3,440 on the ball, 14,200 on the axles.

Still had 4' of usable deck space left


I started many years ago with BP trailers, worked up to 20', then went to a 20' low deck GN, then got this 18' plus 4' Pop-Up in 2006. See no reason for me to go back to BP.

 

[Piston]

Faxman,
I am SO jealous of all your toys!

 

[Xfaxman]

Faxman,
I am SO jealous of all your toys!

Yep, you have told me that before, but I worked long and hard to get them.

I sold that V518 in 2010 and bought the smaller V417.

 

[texas42]

I'm confused by this thread.
I found a Ford year 2000 trailer towing guide on line (couldn't find 1999)
According to the 2000 guide the F-350 is available with a GVWR of 9,900 lbs. in all configurations.
This guide says as follows:
Rear step bumper hitch with WDH max trailer 10,000 lbs and max tongue weight of 1,000 lbs.
Rear step bumper without WDH max trailer 5,000 lbs and max tongue weight 500 lbs.
Moreover, further in this guide it lists maximum trailer weight conventional towing for the F-350 as 10,000 lbs. It also lists the GCWR as 20,000 lbs for all models with Diesel engines.
However, in the fifth wheel section maximum trailer weight is listed between 12,600 and 13,400 depending on cab style and whether 4x2 or 4x4.
So, it appears to me that unless the fifth wheel trailer weighs 2,500 to 3,000 lbs more than the bumper pull, the fifth wheel will haul more.
The OP says his tow vehicle weighs 7,700 and GVWR is 9,900 lbs leaving 2,200 lbs for fifth wheel hitch weight. A 13,000 lb. fifth wheel @ 20% = 2,600 lbs. @ 15% = 1,950 hitch weight. So somewhere around 17% hitch weight would put him at max GVWR and give him a 3,000 lb heavier trailer plus load than a bumper pull using a WDH.

 

[joshuabardwell]

Moreover, further in this guide it lists maximum trailer weight conventional towing for the F-350 as 10,000 lbs. It also lists the GCWR as 20,000 lbs for all models with Diesel engines.
The OP says his tow vehicle weighs 7,700 and GVWR is 9,900 lbs leaving 2,200 lbs for fifth wheel hitch weight. A 13,000 lb. fifth wheel @ 20% = 2,600 lbs. @ 15% = 1,950 hitch weight. So somewhere around 17% hitch weight would put him at max GVWR and give him a 3,000 lb heavier trailer plus load than a bumper pull using a WDH.

A small note: A 13k trailer would put the GCW at 20,700 lbs, which is 700 lbs over the GCWR. I have heard that, all else being roughly equal, a 5th wheel or gooseneck will weigh an extra 1000 lbs or so compared to a bumper pull. Also, you have the weight of the 5th wheel in the bed, which must be considered. All of this combines to close the gap some, but not entirely.

I would also add that there are folks who would not consider a tongue weight below 20% with a gooseneck or 5th wheel to be desirable, but that's a matter of some debate.

I can't speak for a Ford. My Ram doesn't have separate specs for towing a bumper vs. a 5th wheel. All it has is a GVWR, max tow, and GCWR. Based on those numbers, you can tow more with my truck with a bumper pull because of the lower load on the truck.

 

[Piston]

The 10k pound rating, and more specifically, the limits on tongue weight without WD hitch, are due to the factory hitch being a class 4 hitch. I have ordered a class 5 hitch which will carry 2k lbs on the tongue weight without using a WD hitch, more if using a wd hitch.

Now the GCVWR that texas42 posted, of 20k lbs is interesting. That could be my limiting factor right there. I was looking for a GCVWR on the sticker (or anywhere) and couldn't find one.

 

[Diamondpilot]

The 10k pound rating, and more specifically, the limits on tongue weight without WD hitch, are due to the factory hitch being a class 4 hitch. I have ordered a class 5 hitch which will carry 2k lbs on the tongue weight without using a WD hitch, more if using a wd hitch.

Now the GCVWR that texas42 posted, of 20k lbs is interesting. That could be my limiting factor right there. I was looking for a GCVWR on the sticker (or anywhere) and couldn't find one.

GCWR is only published in the owners manual. The trucks GVWR is on the door sticker.

Chris

 

[Piston]

GCWR is only published in the owners manual. The trucks GVWR is on the door sticker.

Chris

If you were to get pulled over, what do they go by? I would assume that if it isn't listed on the truck, all they can do is make sure your under the legal requirements for cdl territory, and be sure the hitch/trailer/GVWR aren't exceeded. ???

 

[Piston]

GCWR is only published in the owners manual. The trucks GVWR is on the door sticker.

Chris

If you were to get pulled over, what do they go by? I would assume that if it isn't listed on the truck, all they can do is make sure your under the legal requirements for cdl territory, and be sure the hitch/trailer/GVWR aren't exceeded. ???

 

[nc redneck]

Anyone ever noticed that all posters promoting goosenecks drive single axle trucks. If pushing the weight limit a gooseneck will help a lot.
A 3500 dual rear wheel just does not need it until 12,000 pounds or more. Why lose bed space and haul extra 1500 lb unless you need to.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Anyone ever noticed that all posters promoting goosenecks drive single axle trucks. If pushing the weight limit a gooseneck will help a lot.
A 3500 dual rear wheel just does not need it until 12,000 pounds or more. Why lose bed space and haul extra 1500 lb unless you need to.

The problem is there is no single perfect truck. While a Dually is nice for towing it sucks for every other task.

It's all a compromise. I have had them all by all 5 brands starting with my 1996 GMC Dually and I wish it was just that easy.

For me we are a 3 vehicle family. A Mid Size SUV, a 4x4 Crew Cab 1/2 ton, and a SRW 1 ton 4x4 Diesel.

If I had to go to one vehicle hands down it would be a Crew Cab 4x4 short bed 1 ton diesel. I would just live with its short comings because it does more stuff good than it does bad.

Chris

 

[lutt]

I promote goosenecks to a point, most people on here don't need them. I do. I would rather hook to a bumper pull, but for most things I haul, there is length issues, and weight also. That's is where my gooseneck shines. But I draw the line at a dual rear wheel pickup. I have drove one for day to day driving before and they are not practical at all for that. That is why you don't see many of us driving them. I'll take a single rear wheel truck any day. I agree with Chris, a single rear short bed cc in a one ton is great. I just happen to have a 3/4 ton at the moment. It's kinda like the diesel truck argument, there not for most. But a gasser won't do the work I need from a truck as well as a diesel. Cost factor aside, but really, who buys a 4wd cc any truck for fuel milage that works one everyday, it's not there. Highway, maybe, hauling and towing, it's not there. Sorry about the rant. Carry on. LUTT

 

[newbury]

What's the GCVWR rating? You might be above the rated tow capacity with a 16K trailer. My 2002 max tow capacity is rated at 12,500 lbs. according to published specs. And I've a 11.5K GVWR.

View attachment 379355

I'm confused by this thread.
I found a Ford year 2000 trailer towing guide on line (couldn't find 1999)
According to the 2000 guide the F-350 is available with a GVWR of 9,900 lbs. in all configurations.
This guide says as follows:
Rear step bumper hitch with WDH max trailer 10,000 lbs and max tongue weight of 1,000 lbs.
Rear step bumper without WDH max trailer 5,000 lbs and max tongue weight 500 lbs.
Moreover, further in this guide it lists maximum trailer weight conventional towing for the F-350 as 10,000 lbs. It also lists the GCWR as 20,000 lbs for all models with Diesel engines.
However, in the fifth wheel section maximum trailer weight is listed between 12,600 and 13,400 depending on cab style and whether 4x2 or 4x4.
So, it appears to me that unless the fifth wheel trailer weighs 2,500 to 3,000 lbs more than the bumper pull, the fifth wheel will haul more.
The OP says his tow vehicle weighs 7,700 and GVWR is 9,900 lbs leaving 2,200 lbs for fifth wheel hitch weight. A 13,000 lb. fifth wheel @ 20% = 2,600 lbs. @ 15% = 1,950 hitch weight. So somewhere around 17% hitch weight would put him at max GVWR and give him a 3,000 lb heavier trailer plus load than a bumper pull using a WDH.

Couldn't you read the link I posted?
From trailerlife magazine.
It shows bumper pull up to 12,500 lbs.

here's a page

 

[CJONE]

I'll have to agree with Lutt and Chris, having both dual rear wheel trucks and single I found myself using the singles for most everything. If I was pulling a large camper all the time the dually would be my first choice but like was stated they are not very user friendly for most everything else. Heck even the large class 7 and 8 trucks are converting over to single tires. Google super singles. CJ

 

[two_bit_score]

Good thread.

 

[texas42]

Couldn't you read the link I posted?
From trailerlife magazine.
It shows bumper pull up to 12,500 lbs.

here's a page View attachment 379818

I looked at your attachment which was for 2002 Ford vehicles
The OP stated he had a 1999.
Ford has various GVWRs in 2002 that go up to 11,500 lbs for a F-350 and you are correct in 2002 does allow a bumper pull up to 12,500 lbs with WDH.
I was just trying to get as close to the OP's vehicle as possible.
The GVWR for model year 1999 and 2000 appear very similar as they both list max. GVWR of 9,900. Lbs.

 

[newbury]

I'// try 1 more time:

What's the GCVWR rating? You might be above the rated tow capacity with a 16K trailer. My 2002 max tow capacity is rated at 12,500 lbs. according to published specs. And I've a 11.5K GVWR.

View attachment 379355

Texas - did you read the LINK?
View attachment 1999-tow-ratings.pdf
it doesn't seem to separate out bumperpull.

In my haste to reply I copied from the wrong file. I've the trailer life's files back to '99.

hopefully this will work - I have to do a screen print.

I looked at your attachment which was for 2002 Ford vehicles
The OP stated he had a 1999.
Ford has various GVWRs in 2002 that go up to 11,500 lbs for a F-350 and you are correct in 2002 does allow a bumper pull up to 12,500 lbs with WDH.
I was just trying to get as close to the OP's vehicle as possible.
The GVWR for model year 1999 and 2000 appear very similar as they both list max. GVWR of 9,900. Lbs.

 

[Piston]

I think that is saying that my tow capacity would be 13,500lbs if I'm reading it correctly

 

[texas42]

I'// try 1 more time:


Texas - did you read the LINK?
View attachment 379849
it doesn't seem to separate out bumperpull.

In my haste to reply I copied from the wrong file. I've the trailer life's files back to '99.

hopefully this will work - I have to do a screen print.
View attachment 379851

Ok, I'll try one more time.
My info came directly from Ford.
Type in 2xxx ford trailer towing guide and do a search on that. (xxx for year)
Camper/Trailer Towing Guide - Ford Fleet will come up as result for what ever year you search on.
I would be more inclined to go with Ford's literature that a third party's

 

[texas42]

Here is a link to Ford's Trailer Towing Guide for model year 2000
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/non-html/2000/BBCAMPER.PDF