IS IT REALLY WORTH IT?

[tennesseemike]

Ok guys I am about to travel on waters that have been charted in here before, (probably). My question is , how far will you guys go outside of your area to "get the best deal". Is it really worth the little bit that you save by traveling a distance outside of your local dealer who is going to be there for you. I mean when I am in the process of buying a car or some other major purchase, I will do all that is within my power to make that purchase locally. Personally I would pay more to stay with my local dealer, afterall he is gonna be there for me if something should go wrong.. I know that many of you are saying "he is just speaking from a dealers prespective, but honestly I am not.. The dealership that I work for reaches approx. 75 to 100 miles either direction, but we do not sell what we cannot affectively service. Watch out for the guys that advertise price and price alone because that is the only thing they are after,"your money". Am I just old fashioned or what? I still believe in a one on one relationship with whom you are dealing with . I still believe in a good ole fashioned hand shake seals a deal... Let me hear your input on this....

 

[MChalkley]

I'm willing to throw my first reaction to your comments/questions out to stimulate the discussion (though I doubt it will be necessary). But I'm probably in the minority, as far as my personal preference is concerned. A few factors that I think may be pertinent.

1) Some people don't live near enough to a dealer that it's a relevant issue.

2) From my experience, very few dealers know as much about tractors as I do, and that includes the gamut of potential fields of expertise - usage, maintenance, implements, enhancements, you name it. And I mean my comment to speak more for the average dealer's lack of knowledge than my own abundance thereof. Perhaps I could also have said that I think the average dealer knows less about those things than the average member of this forum and sounded less smug. And I think it would be just as accurate. Most dealers I've talked to personally haven't learned anything other than model information since their first year of experience. That means that if they've been in the business 30 years, what they know, other than the features of what they're trying to sell (and sometimes even that), is 29 years out of date.

3) Assuming the dealer is knowledgeable, from my experience you've still got a 50/50 chance that he's not worth the trouble to deal with from an attitude standpoint.

All that having been said, I bought from a local dealer, Ed Oliver at Middlesex Equipment, because he's treated me exceptionally well, is progressive in his knowledge, gives me very fair prices, and humors my manifestations of obsessive compulsion. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif He even knows when to say "Never mind, I don't think I want to know why you want to 'fill in the blank'." With someone as incredible as that, how could I not be his customer?

Mark

 

[Glenn McBride]

I think you also have a misunderstanding about some of the more remote dealers. When I bought my 3710 I had it priced from some of the internet dealers and even other dealers in the area. Ended up buying from the closest dealer. His price was comparable (within $500) of the better deals I found. Bought local for many of the reasons you said. The dealer stated that the 3710 HST was his hottest selling tractor.

Now it was time for my 50 hour change. Went to my local dealer for all the parts. Had all but one filter, said it was backordered from Kubota, to check back in a few days. Did, still backordered. This was repeated over the next 3 weeks. Local dealer said his hands were tied, nothing he could do.

Since I had 58 hours on, wanted to get this done so ordered the part through an Internet dealer on a Thursday evening. Friday morning had an email stating the part was backordered. He wanted to know if I wanted him to try and get one or wait a week and he could have Kubota direct ship it to me. It cost me some $4 more for shipping than local but I got the part. Did he put all this time in just to make a buck or because he wanted my business in the future?

On this and other parts, the local dealer wouldn't even take my number and call when they came in.

Glenn

 

[Thomas]

Mike,
I feel the dealer is the most important part of buying a tractor.
If the dealer so little interest than so shall I even if he has what I want,and I will search for another dealership.
My first tractor choice was New Holland and the distance was about 80 miles round trip which didn't matter,but after two vists and his out look I decided on my second choice which was a Kubota./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

My Kubota dealer about 22 miles round trip and I'm more than happy with the dealership.

How does that old saying go..word of the mouth./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

I'm sure some will say why didn't you find another New Holland dealer,will the next dealer was about 175miles round trip and that was a tad to far,and the service....well I heard sour things./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

So closer to home the better I feel and they don't forget your name./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Stay safe and/w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif

Thomas..NH

 

[MChalkley]

Glenn - Your experience pretty well hits the nail on the head: Some dealers aren't smart enough to realize that it's in their best interest to make sure you get good service even on the items they aren't making hundreds of dollars in profit on. Others are. If my local dealer wasn't, he would just be a local dealer, not my local dealer. But isn't everybody pretty much that way?

Mark

 

[Stoney]

T-Mike Recently in the market for a little 30hp tractor to work around the home place. Would normally see the local dealer and trade over several cups of coffee. On this deal he quoted what he said was a very fair price. And I do believe that it may have been very fair-but fair for who? Thankfully the internet has changed things....I can now sell to markets that I never knew existed and buy equipment from sources heretofore unknown. Found a dealer 72 miles from here..gave a price $1281.25 to my benefit,included ballast and threw in a set of filters. Unless this old man has lost the ability to figure because of many hours of breathing corn row dust and diesel fumes while operating a JD4440, I believe that equates to a savings somewhere around $426.75/hr for each of the three hours it will take to run up to Tifton, close the deal and get back.Is It Worth It? For you, maybe not -- but for Stoney, that Dog Does Hunt!

 

[W5FL]

I bought my tractor from a dealer in the local Metroplex. It sure wasn't my local dealer. He cinched that for the 5 years I owned a Massey and he couldn't get to anything to service it in a reasonable amount of time, so I did it all myself. I bought the Massey used, so he may not have had any desire to service it, but that works both ways.

When it came time to buy a new tractor and spend $27,000, I had him quote, as well as several on the Internet. I would have bought my tractor from half way across the country if it had been to my advantage to do so. I do not ever expect to put a tractor back into the dealership. I can get parts quicker with UPS delivering them than wasting the time to make a trip for them and usually get better pricing, too. I have another dealer here that sells strictly list price on implements. I have bought one from him, but most from dealers with better pricing.

Kubotas don't spend much time in dealerships. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Bird]

Well, I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. Yes, I'll go out of the area to get the best deal. I'd prefer trading with the closest dealer on anything, whether tractors, cars, appliances, etc., but I don't have money to throw away, so if the local, or nearest, dealer isn't competitive, I'll go to one that is.

Bird

 

[stvman]

tennesseemike,

I am first going to answer a hearty YES, it really is worth it...Now to back that up is a matter of how stubborn a person is which I am plenty stubborn.

I refuse to be patronized by arrogant dealers who think they can sell for list price because their product has a good reputation.

A lot of dealers in my area have the attitude that they own you, not How can I earn your business?

If my local dealer is $ 1000.00 dollars higher than someone 500 miles away on a new tractor and is good to his cusomers,goes the extra mile, he will ceartanly earn my business ..

But all too common is the flippant take it or leave it attitude. As far as dealers posting low prices I will use Carver equipt as an example

1)Carver lists his prices which are on average $ 2400.00 lower than my local prices.
2)Carver is well established and has a good reputation for serving his customers.
3)The biggest reason are all the wonderful members of this forum who give their advice free of charge, which tells me they are above average in character (go ahead guys pat yourselves on the back you deserve it) so if Carver were a bum he would be drummed out of existance by word of mouth.
4)We really do live in a global economy people can now find out on the web if the price is fair (much to the dismay of many retailers..)

 

[W5FL]

There are legimitate list price dealers. My dad was Shop Foreman for a local Cadillac dealer that sold only at list price. They really treated their customers well, went the extra mile and warranted a lot of things that GM would not reimburse them for. The customer knew they could buy the product for less, but wanted the kind of service they got there. They pulled a Cadillac in that a guy had not agreed with a local transmission company and did the overhaul. After they got it finished, it would lose hydraulic pressure. They found out that the transmission company had drilled a small hole in the hydraulic passage where the transmission could never work. The dealer ate the price of that transmission, showed the customer what the transmission company had done, and made a customer for life. There really are good dealers out there.

Now, personally, I think tractors are a lot different. Most of us will never see our tractors back in the shop. They are very reliable machines and they can be serviced at a lot of authorized dealers and independent dealers if the need arises. Sorry, but I can't afford the list price tractor dealers and I do not see that they give much in return. Johne Deere and Kubota have a significant markup, so there is quite a bit of room to deal.

 

[tennesseemike]

Well guys I will not answer all the posts individually but will try to comment on all through one post. First of all I have to say I was quite taken back by most of the responses. Let me say if my question sounded fllipant or arrogant in any way let me apologize, that was certainly not the way that I meant it. I got the impression that some of you may have taken it that way.
Secondly let me say that I must be in a totally different market area than you guys, because with all of the tractors that I have sold I have never gotten list price, never have even asked for it. My market area is very competitive.
Thirdly if you owned a tractor that costs say 20,000 what would be a fair profit on that tractor keeping in mind over head expenses and so forth?
Fourth, Mark if you were talking about dealers in your area then only you would know that..but to say words like "most dealers, or the "average dealer" and talking as a whole then your statement would be very unfair. I have the opportunity to meet with dealers all across the United States about twice a year, and I have to honestly say that more than half probably more like 75% of those guys really know their stuff..
My intention was not to stir up a hornets nest, I was simply curious. I can only speak for the dealership that I work for.. and do not personally know any of those things to happen where I am.. It sounds like you guys have had some horrible experiences.... I suppose the norm to me is to be above average in my career..
I think when you expect the best, and shoot for the best anything else would be unexceptable. In my area I can not afford to be flippant or arrogant or even ignorant about my products..
So again I did not realize there were so many sub par dealers out there... And I apoligize for any misunderstandings.... ..... by the way guys as far as kubota's not seeing much shop time I hate to say this but this year for us has been a busy year for service and warranty work with N.H. and Kub.

 

[MChalkley]

Tennesseemike - I most certainly did not take the slightest offense at what you said, and I hope you didn't find my remarks too harsh. What I was trying to say is that my standards are pretty high, and I'd gladly use a dealer who was nowhere near my home. Maybe it is a regional thing, but I still say that, by far, most of the dealers I've encountered know less about tractors in general than most of the frequent contributors to this board. I feel quite fortunate that I have one I really like and respect nearby.

Mark

 

[gordon]

Mike I'm in the process of buying a new Kubota and what dealer am I going to---my local one. Why because he is a straight shooter and will deal in price as well when needed. When I call the dealership they know my voice and say hello Gordon. But the bottom line is that they are a honest bunch and the owner is a very smart business man.

The price Im getting on my new tractor is better than any internet price after it was all said and done. But there were a few gliches in the deal but I was dealing with the owner not a salesman. After that was all said and done it worked out to my favor. He shows what the cost is and is very open but anything we discuss stays there and goes no further. But that what trust is isn't it. He also knows that I want the best deal on a tractor and that I'm a long term customer who will buy again in parts and service--so what is the best thing for him to do make me happy and he has done that which is very difficult to do!!

At the dealership I work for we set very high standards so in dealing with any other dealership I expect the same!!! Honesty is the best,do what you say at a fair price and you will have no worries.
Gordon

 

[stvman]

tennesseemike,

I apologize if I am one of the persons you are referring to I meant no malace towards you, infact most of the dealers I have had favorable conversations with have been in your area..The northeast is another story many of the dealers here (I have talked to at least 30) with only three favorable experiences, but still very high prices. In responce to your fair profit I feel 2000.00 on 20,000.00 is more than fair, some may disagree but in my area I would guess it to be 4-6k which to me is gouging..

 

[Richard]

TennesseeMike,

As I have been talking to some dealers locally and via internet, (if this isn't inappropriate) do you happen to work on Inskip road or possibly Hwy 11/Congress Ave?

Richard

 

[dullpain]

Gordon - Like your response, am in the same boat. Looking for a good dealer and fair price on M5800. Please identify your dealer. I live in Middle Tennessee. Have asked on this forum for reputable dealers you can talk to, but have found only Memphis (250 mi.) or Carver (350 mi.) Any help & thanks

 

[W5FL]

If that was an M6800, I just went through that a few months ago.

 

[jgh]

8/16

I'll toss my 2 cents (or more like $170) into this fire: in dealing with my no go power shuttle, the NH SMgr reminded me that I would have to pay the travel time TO & FROM if they have to come to me. That is 4 hours minimum (230 mi round trip).

In buying, I had much closer dealers to choose from (both 70 mi RT), one who was serveral thou higher (10-15%) /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif and one who said "I don't have time to look for what you want" /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif/w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif, so I shopped farther afield. I did buy most of my impls from another one 150 mi RT, so I may wind up having them service it if it comes to that.

Fair warning. And Wen, I know you are an Engr and have the same self-sufficiency wish that I do /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif, but what about the special electronic instruments modern tractors require? Aren't there some things only the dealer can do for those of us with freaky bad luck?

There is a risk to dealing out of town. How lucky do you feel /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif ?

I will say I was disturbed when the smgr was not familiar with the calibration meter the owner's manual refers to. More disturbing--he made several statements about how new these tractors were, when in fact they have been out for over 3 years. Tennessee Mike, how much does your service dept know about TN90F's? Haven't they been out a while? Sorry, drifting off topic...

J

 

[W5FL]

Yeah, Electronics is my field of study, but tractors have pretty simple electronics, no matter how sophisticated the marketing people try to make it sound. We have about the same class of tractors, but I chose Kubota and you chose NH and we both had good reasons.

The most complex piece of electronic equipment that I see on an M6800 Kubota is..........didn't find any. Just found.

1) Fuses
2) Alternator (or is it)
3) Safety switches
4) Fuel and temp gauge
5) Lights, switch and a flasher
6) Key switch
7) Starter
8) Fuel cutoff relay (and mechanical over-ride cable)

Nope, mine is pretty straight forward and nearly all mechanical stuff that is quite well designed, and pretty basic. Fair amount of mechanical complexity in the fully synchronized tranny, dash mounted sync/shuttle and 4WD system is very well done. Single Dry Clutch and wet hydraulic PTO clutch and lever controlled external hydraulics valves. Really nice low emmission 4 cylinder very efficient diesel engine, but again pretty straighforward. Cooling system is pretty standard and well protected from clogging up. My tach/hour meter is mechanical. Plenty of hydraulics and all pretty straightforward including excellent power steering, but it is the hydraulics (with loader and 3 point) that make modern tractors the work horses that they are. Even the excellent seat is all mechanical.

Good Shop Manual and Parts Manual as well as excellent Owners manual for those that need to know that the drain plug for the engine is located on both sides of the oil pan, etc.

Looks to me like most of this breed of tractors (at least the Ag tractors) were made to deliver to the farm and they would stay there forever and never set foot in the dealers shop ever again. They appear to be designed where people have to maintain and repair their own equipment to keep things running and looks to me like they have done an excellent job of doing that.

It is nice to have a local dealer. That way you don't have to go far to set down and shoot the breeze. He is up on every model and the service department is spotless. They don't work on other models and don't seem to have much to do except new vehicle make readies.

 

[gordon]

Good post!
It's a shame that they at least would only charge half for milage because the problem could have stemed from the dealership to begin with on your other post.

I'm lucky to have a pretty decent dealer local to me after reading your post it really hits home about getting at the time the---best deal---.
Gordon