Is a 3hp upgrade worth it?

[SirFallalot]

Well, after a couple failed negotiation attempts where dealer refused to budge, managed to get a barely used rotary cutter thrown in the for the 5k, without buyback. I didn't want to float the money, but can't bear trading it in for 3k. Annoyingly, I need to go down there again for payment and registration, i suggested we could do it on the delivery day, but oh well.

Interestingly, within half an hour of listing, had someone offer 3500, he said he couldn't offer more as it was for resale, and that I wouldn't be able to sell it for any more....ok....so you're telling me I should sell it to you for less, so you can re-sell it for the same I'm asking...ok ok....no thx, I'm not in a rush.

 

[ptsg]

Be patient. I'm sure you will be able to get at least 4k, if not more, being that your tractor has license plate and that alone is like 1k extra value.

I sold three older tractors to get me a new tractor. Out of the three, I sold one privately and gave me a lot more money that I expected to get out of it as it was the one in worse shape (I bought to restore but changed my mind shortly after). Interestingly enough, the small dealer I bought my new tractor, offered me very good money for the other two tractors. Pretty much the same I would get if I sold it privately.

If you threw a ridiculous offer on one of their used tractors at the dealer, I'm sure they would get all mad at you. However, they have no problems throwing ridiculous offers at your stuff without even caring. Not all, but some dealers are like that anyway, usually the bigger dealers are like that.

 

[SirFallalot]

Well, here it is!! It's actually 16.5Kw on the documents, just over 22, not 26 or 27 or 28!! I still wonder where from and why people pull these inflated figures, up to 25% more for compacts I've found. Regardless it's still a good improvement for me % wise.

5000 euros delivered with a 120cm rotary cutter. The seller turned out to be very nice, and didn't get upset about getting lost trying to find my place

I'm in the process of selling mine for 4250, if I discount the cutter which is in vgc, I almost break even.
Thanks for the advice.

 

[ptsg]

Well, here it is!! It's actually 16.5Kw on the documents, just over 22, not 26 or 27 or 28!! I still wonder where from and why people pull these inflated figures, up to 25% more for compacts I've found. Regardless it's still a good improvement for me % wise.
View attachment 699286
5000 euros delivered with a 120cm rotary cutter. The seller turned out to be very nice, and didn't get upset about getting lost trying to find my place

I'm in the process of selling mine for 4250, if I discount the cutter which is in vgc, I almost break even.
Thanks for the advice.

Congrats on your new "toy", errr, I mean tractor.

Great picture too with the mountains in the back.

I have the same mower too. Also 1.2m.

Have you tried to figure out the maker and model of the engine and confirm the HP? Somehow I find 22hp a bit low on this type of tractor.

 

[SirFallalot]

Congrats on your new "toy", errr, I mean tractor.

Great picture too with the mountains in the back.

I have the same mower too. Also 1.2m.

Have you tried to figure out the maker and model of the engine and confirm the HP? Somehow I find 22hp a bit low on this type of tractor.

Ahah thanks, toy is not far fetched either
I haven't, but I'll have a look at it to double check, I thought the papers would be accurate.

 

[ptsg]

Ahah thanks, toy is not far fetched either
I haven't, but I'll have a look at it to double check, I thought the papers would be accurate.

I have seen some mistakes on documents before, that's way I asking.

But I do agree with you. Some people do like to inflate the horsepower on tractors when selling. Specially those mini tractors like the Hinomoto you have, Kubota, Iseki, etc. I've seen people claiming 25hp on these small tractors when they are around 12 to 18hp, depending on the models of course. It's like Porto wine, the older it gets, the more horsepower it has.

 

[JCoastie]

looks very nice!

 

[bmaverick]

I have seen some mistakes on documents before, that's way I asking.

But I do agree with you. Some people do like to inflate the horsepower on tractors when selling. Specially those mini tractors like the Hinomoto you have, Kubota, Iseki, etc. I've seen people claiming 25hp on these small tractors when they are around 12 to 18hp, depending on the models of course. It's like Porto wine, the older it gets, the more horsepower it has.

Japan Hp JIS ratings are tested different than SAE Hp test ratings. I trust the SAE ratings and the Nebraska Tractor Testing based on the SAE findings.

My machine is like the John Deere JD850
TractorData.com John Deere 850 tractor tests information

Japan JIS says my tractor to be 26Hp @ 2,600 rpms. SAE says 22.83Hp @ 2,600 rpms after 2-hours.

Thus, the ability to find a machine as close to a benchmark to your model is ideal.

Yanmar does a small tweak to the fuel injector pump to gain from 1Hp to 5Hp on similar models with the same engine. However, I don't have any available test data to rely on.

Then throw in the dealer hype and it's a different game.

 

[ptsg]

Japan Hp JIS ratings are tested different than SAE Hp test ratings. I trust the SAE ratings and the Nebraska Tractor Testing based on the SAE findings.

My machine is like the John Deere JD850
TractorData.com John Deere 850 tractor tests information

Japan JIS says my tractor to be 26Hp @ 2,600 rpms. SAE says 22.83Hp @ 2,600 rpms after 2-hours.

Thus, the ability to find a machine as close to a benchmark to your model is ideal.

Yanmar does a small tweak to the fuel injector pump to gain from 1Hp to 5Hp on similar models with the same engine. However, I don't have any available test data to rely on.

Then throw in the dealer hype and it's a different game.

Yes I am aware of that, however it's not the case over here. It's 100% seller (dealer or private seller) hype that "increases" the HP on these tractors.

So people fall for it but used to happen way more, back in the day. In our current times that we pretty much have internet on the tip of our fingers and can easily access TractorData (That site is awesome by the way) and check pretty much any spec we're looking for.

 

[SirFallalot]

It's like Porto wine, the older it gets, the more horsepower it has.

 

[bmaverick]

Yes I am aware of that, however it's not the case over here. It's 100% seller (dealer or private seller) hype that "increases" the HP on these tractors.

So people fall for it but used to happen way more, back in the day. In our current times that we pretty much have internet on the tip of our fingers and can easily access TractorData (That site is awesome by the way) and check pretty much any spec we're looking for.

TractorData is close, but has flaws. If a person can find documentation for the machine from the OE, it is so much better. Took 6 years to find the documents for my gray market machine. I'm pleased to know that there was little hype.

 

[SirFallalot]

It's a Ruggerini RD220.
Couldn't find info on it but found a slightly smaller RD211 rated at 17Kw, so I suppose it's just short of 25hp.

http://www.lombardini.no/ruggerini/Datablad/RD_211_uk.pdf

I also just found it might actually have two PTO speeds or maybe it's an option not sure.
The pto below lever has a round pin that you can push in and the lever will slide down into another position, but it doesn't rotate or make any noise if moved between that and the other "neutral" with the clutch out. The top position is the working one, and the middle one's what I thought was neutral. I am confused.


There were some bad contacts which I figured was just corroded connectors, turns out it was the fuses. Never seen ones like this. I lightly sanded the tops of them but some broke as they were very fragile. I did a garage fix but maybe the Carraro dealer will have some of these, if not I think the rounded household fuses might also work

Really would like to get a manual, but I just have my company laptop and it's blocking some of the stites that appear to have it. Maybe the dealer can get me one too.

Cheers

 

[SirFallalot]

Actually should I make another thread for posting about the tractor or questions? This one's fulfilled. Might help someone looking to buy one of these since there's hardly any info. What'd be the right section?

 

[ptsg]

I think here is fine but if you want, you can post on the All other brands section: All Other Brands

Looks like indeed a 22 hp tractor. Still a nice improvement I think, specially considering the extra weight this tractor has versus the Hinomoto.

I'm wondering if the other PTO lever position is for the ground speed PTO. Basically connects the PTO to the rear differential so you can use to power trailers and have traction on the trailer too. Very common for the Italian tractors. A simple way to test, is to engage the PTO on that position, then move the tractor back and forth and see if the PTO changes rotation as well. It will also spin a lot slower than the common 540 RPM.

The fuses are an older style. Still easy to find though. I bought an assortment of those on Roady a few years back when I had the Toselli tracked tractors. They used the same style and most classic cars also use these. I believe I've also saw these fuses on those Chinese stores and also on the Auto accessories section on the common Continente, Intermarché, etc stores.

For instance, here a link to the Auchan one: Auchan

This site lists a manual for the 2700 model. Not sure if you can access it as Chrome says it's not safe or something: https://www.agriservices.it/index.php/notizie-prodotti/35-manuali-uso-e-manutenzione-trattori-epoca

 

[SirFallalot]

Yes still a good upgrade for almost no money at all! I've only done a quick run around but it defeats most hills just fine! The steering is Broa assisted though.... Harder to make tight corners than the small tractor as the circle is a bit wider, but I'll get used to it. One obvious thing is how robust it looks.

I'll try that with the pto, it does make sense as the pin prevents you from accidentally selecting it, and thanks for the fuse tips.

The site is blocked but I opened it on my phone instead (duh), dropped them an email, i guess they're not readily downloadable.

 

[SirFallalot]

I'm wondering if the other PTO lever position is for the ground speed PTO. Basically connects the PTO to the rear differential so you can use to power trailers and have traction on the trailer too.

And we have a winner

 

[Williy]

Me thinks you need to take a look at these web
sites for what you need? Ruggerini RD220. manual at DuckDuckGo

Technical Data - Ruggerini RD210 Workshop Manual [Page 11]

Ruggerini RD210 Manual Online: Technical Data. RD210 RD211 N. 2 m m 90 m m 75 cm 954 19:1 19:1 15(20,5) — 17(23) 14(19) — 15,7(21,4) 12,9(17,6) — 14,5(19,8) N m 50@2400 50@2400 236 0,8 lt 3 Ah -A 66-300 66-300 kg 78 m/h 76 m/h 800 kg. 100(350) 100(350) 25(35) 25(35) 25(40) 25(40)...

www.manualslib.com

Ruggerini RD211 RD218 RD220 RD240 Parts Catalog Manual

Ruggerini RD211 RD218 RD220 RD240 Parts Catalog Manual contains exploded views with all the original parts and assist you in servicing, maintenance and repair

epartsmanuals.com

willy