Introduction and pole barn planning help

[stevem5215]

I second the I beam with a trolley. That can be far more useful in a "shed" than a lot of other things (a wet bar in the back).

 

[BoylermanCT]

I built my 30x40x12 pole barn during Covid. Bought a complete kit from diypolebarns.com. They delivered the kit via semi truck and it had everything you need to complete the building except the tools. Poles were triple 2x6 glued together. 6/12 trusses, all lumber, metal siding, nails and screws included. Turned out better than I imagined.

If I were to do another one, I would seriously consider Versatube. Check them out too.

 

[rScotty]

Have you looked into the local codes, permits and inspections required? It can range from nothing to incredibly onerous. If I was in an area with no required permits and inspections, or you're going without, I'd still want to do it to code. A lot of what's in the building codes is to save the builder from expensive or dangerous mistakes.

Yes, permits and inspections are there for your protection. Code is a minimum and you will probably want to exceed it most everywhere in a barn. Barns don't have the structural advantage of interior supporting walls.
Put in perimeter drainage to french drains.
Electrical run inside walls should always be in EMT conduit in a barn. Critter proof. Structurally, put in lots of triangular supports at all corners. double the wall and post ties. Liberal use of lag bolts and ring shanks. None of that may be required by code, but if in doubt make it stronger. Ten years hence you will be glad you did.

rScotty

 

[rScotty]

Oh, and the photos from Boylerman just reminded me about an open area with open sides and a roof. Most of the year that makes a better working area than inside. Make yourself a nice shed on the downwind & downweather side of the barn. If you don't do that now, make it possible to do it easily later.

 

[Millercameron97]

Engineering wise, I know what works for barns where I am....have no idea what works structurally where you are - and I notice that most of your questions are structural. It just all depends on local conditions.

Glad to see that you got a soil test. If I were doing your project I'd have all the same questions and my next step would be to find someone locally that builds barns for a living - and pay them to come out and educate you. Maybe do that twice. There is often a local group of part time builders/farmers who are very good at building a particular type of barn. I'd go with what their experience, and adapt your design to fit that experience.

If it's not a type of barn they are familiar with, look elsewhere. Check with local Amish or Mennonite groups to see if they have a barn-building team.

Our barn was built for our location with hard winters, high winds and some flooding. It is great for use here - but not sure how much translates to your place. So much of barn design is for local conditions. Ours is way overbuilt to be tremendously strong. A nearby creek periodically floods. Pole shed type 20x50 with 6x6 selected poles that were pressure treated creosote (like utility poles are treated) and then sunk 6 to 8 feet using a well driller to poke the holes. Poles are aligned and then backfilled with concrete. Barn is then framed in with treated 2x6 - doubled where necessry and double fastened. Facing walls is with 2x4 frames plus 5/8 & 3/4" good grade exterior fir plywood. Rafters are 2x8 and 2x10 with 3/4" exterior ply. Floor is half dirt and half concrete poured after the build. Steel shingles complete the roof. It has it's own power and generator.

Good luck & keep us posted.
rScotty

Sounds like a brute of a building. I like it. I'm actually waiting on the soil sample results to be interpreted by the engineering firm that will design the slab for my house. Although those loads are going to be way higher, because its a giant brick home vs a lil ol pole barn, It will help me determine what I need to do. I've gotten several quotes on a turn-key building, some from people who came highly recommended, here's what I've found. 1. its almost impossible to get a quote from someone. 2. They are incredibly high priced 3. I've found all kinds of very questionable practices in the pictures they send of their work. Over torqued fasteners in the trim, to the point the metal was crinkled. Obvious out of square buildings. Trusses attached with one single bolt to the side of a post etc. The list goes on. All that to say, there might be some people with some expertise out where I am that are worth their salt, but I can't find em. I also see a TON of guys pushing quick installs and cheap(er) prices on those galvalume tubing buildings, they all tout the wind rating like it's comparable to red iron or post frame strength. They're glorified carports!

I don't feel like its so important that I bring in the A-team of Americas best engineers on the matter, i'm just trying to get somewhere in the middle of adequate and, dang... that sucker ain't going anywhere. Collecting data and personal experience from the other folks that have put up buildings themselves is a big help and broadens my pool of ideas. I appreciate the input!

 

[Millercameron97]

There's also pre-cast concrete perma-columns. The wood posts bolt on above ground.

Have you looked into the local codes, permits and inspections required? It can range from nothing to incredibly onerous. If I was in an area with no required permits and inspections, or you're going without, I'd still want to do it to code. A lot of what's in the building codes is to save the builder from expensive or dangerous mistakes.

Your description of the geology and the helical piers for the house foundation makes me wonder if posts set to a normal depth would be sufficient. (and also if I can use those for my project... I'll be checking with my builder)

If you are going to condition the space, take care for the design and execution to provide good air sealing and effective insulation. That will pay off in decreased costs in the long run. If you insulate the ceiling make sure the attic above it is well ventilated.

The shoptalk forum can be a source of useful info.

Have you looked into the local codes, permits and inspections required? It can range from nothing to incredibly onerous. If I was in an area with no required permits and inspections, or you're going without, I'd still want to do it to code. A lot of what's in the building codes is to save the builder from expensive or dangerous mistakes. I actually have NO inspections unless I put septic in. Permitting requires only a site map with dimensions of the building and distance to nearest property line. I will be hiring out inspections, third party, for my house but probably not for the barn.

Your description of the geology and the helical piers for the house foundation makes me wonder if posts set to a normal depth would be sufficient. (and also if I can use those for my project... I'll be checking with my builder) I believe it will be fine for the building I'm planning. As someone else said earlier, they're light by design and won't carry near the same load as the house will. I do think the bell auger would handle the load in the soil that I have to work with better though. I will do my due diligence with compaction test in the dirt work prior to also.

If you are going to condition the space, take care for the design and execution to provide good air sealing and effective insulation. That will pay off in decreased costs in the long run. If you insulate the ceiling make sure the attic above it is well ventilated. I am, eventually. I plan on running a house wrap/vapor barrier around the whole structure, for obvious reasons but also, if a metal panel is ever damaged, it wont be stuck to the spray foam insulation, which will make it easier to replace. Also, closed cell spray foam between the 2x6 purlins should do an ample job and keep from having to hang a ceiling in it to use blown in and disregard the need for attic ventilation.

The shoptalk forum can be a source of useful info. I will check it out, thanks!

 

[Millercameron97]

I built my 30x40x12 pole barn during Covid. Bought a complete kit from diypolebarns.com. They delivered the kit via semi truck and it had everything you need to complete the building except the tools. Poles were triple 2x6 glued together. 6/12 trusses, all lumber, metal siding, nails and screws included. Turned out better than I imagined.

If I were to do another one, I would seriously consider Versatube. Check them out too.

I built my 30x40x12 pole barn during Covid. Bought a complete kit from diypolebarns.com. They delivered the kit via semi truck and it had everything you need to complete the building except the tools. Poles were triple 2x6 glued together. 6/12 trusses, all lumber, metal siding, nails and screws included. Turned out better than I imagined.

If I were to do another one, I would seriously consider Versatube. Check them out too.


I will do that! good looking building!

 

[rScotty]

Sounds like a brute of a building. I like it. I'm actually waiting on the soil sample results to be interpreted by the engineering firm that will design the slab for my house. Although those loads are going to be way higher, because its a giant brick home vs a lil ol pole barn, It will help me determine what I need to do. I've gotten several quotes on a turn-key building, some from people who came highly recommended, here's what I've found. 1. its almost impossible to get a quote from someone. 2. They are incredibly high priced 3. I've found all kinds of very questionable practices in the pictures they send of their work. Over torqued fasteners in the trim, to the point the metal was crinkled. Obvious out of square buildings. Trusses attached with one single bolt to the side of a post etc. The list goes on. All that to say, there might be some people with some expertise out where I am that are worth their salt, but I can't find em. I also see a TON of guys pushing quick installs and cheap(er) prices on those galvalume tubing buildings, they all tout the wind rating like it's comparable to red iron or post frame strength. They're glorified carports!

I don't feel like its so important that I bring in the A-team of Americas best engineers on the matter, i'm just trying to get somewhere in the middle of adequate and, dang... that sucker ain't going anywhere. Collecting data and personal experience from the other folks that have put up buildings themselves is a big help and broadens my pool of ideas. I appreciate the input!

Now I'm curious.... what would make you favor building a house on a slab as opposed to a perimeter wall foundation?
I've never understood the popularity of slabs.

BTW, the better home builders here don't advertise. You find them word of mouth by talking to homeowners in the area who have built what appeals to you.

The best custom builders give estimates; not bids. I would stay away from bids myself. Too many of them are from builders, not craftsmen. And they are biased toward "low bid". Outside the USA, most of the world gives contracts based on some method of averaging all bids. That results in far better work than the "low bid" wins rule. Might as well make a rule that favors quick, dirty. and cheap. No thanks....

rScotty

 

[Millercameron97]

Now I'm curious.... what would make you favor building a house on a slab as opposed to a perimeter wall foundation?
I've never understood the popularity of slabs.
rScotty

You mean like pier and beam? like a wood substructure?

 

[rScotty]

You mean like pier and beam? like a wood substructure?

It could be. Or it could even be a basement with or without the concrete floor. Verticals, subwall foundations and piers reduce cost on large houses. I've got a thick book on types of foundations around here somewhere. If I find it I'll post the title.

Access to utilities is far better by standing up to be working beneath a floor than trying to guess what is inside a slab. Modifications are much easier. Also, the area beneath the main floor can be conditioned for heat and cool much more easily if there is standing access.

I can make lots of arguments for other types than slab...but so can anyone. So what is the argument in favor of a slab?
rScotty