Interesting Welding Statement.

[Sully2]

when you hammerweld, the weld is actually is being forced to move.....since mig is a hard weld, it cracks...

when you bend something, the metal around the weld is what does most of the moving.....so the pressure is spread out...

well, at least in my thinking

The metal STILL remains in a semi plastic state for hammer welding. Its not room temp cold.. Whether its heated with an OA torch..an electric furnace..MIG welder or ,,whatever...its still "red hot" right prior to hammering into "final shape".

If ya think MIG welded items get cold quickly.......Ive got a nice set of leather gloves with scorch marks to show you!

 

[AlanB]

MANY items are Mig and TIG welded on airframes...far too many to attempt to list for sure.

Only airplanes Im semi familiar with are combat aircraft. F16;F14;F15...etc

I believe the statement was MIG welded, and while I am not knowlegable with the aircraft models you mentioned, I have seen an airfield after sleeping at a Holiday Inn and cannot think of a single MIG welded component. (and yes I am a licensed Aircraft sheetmetal guy)

Also, in the reference to propane tanks, while there are some Mig welded (I believe only the NRC type) the vast majority of them are done with the sub arc process

 

[Renze]

I've been in the heavy steel industry for 7 years now. As a rookie i got the nicest jobs, like cleanung up and throwing away the unused welding rods.
They only used hardfacing welding rods for small jobs, because its easier to change rods than wire rolls and gas.
At that time we made structural construction steel, and waste recycling plants.
Where i work now, we make wheel loaders. All MIG welded, i just dont know if they use the same wire for welding NAxtra 70 shovel loadframes as for standard S235 radiator supports, because our heavy steelwork is outsourced to Slovakia because of the cost of labour, and the Asian competition in the market.

 

[wushaw]

I believe the statement was MIG welded, and while I am not knowlegable with the aircraft models you mentioned, I have seen an airfield after sleeping at a Holiday Inn and cannot think of a single MIG welded component. (and yes I am a licensed Aircraft sheetmetal guy)

Also, in the reference to propane tanks, while there are some Mig welded (I believe only the NRC type) the vast majority of them are done with the sub arc process

I agree with ya AlanB.
I have held a valid A&P since 89 and worked on DC9, DC10, DC8, B727, B737, B757. Currently B737s.
I have done alot of sheetmetal work on DC9s and quite a bit on B737 in heavy checks, light cks...etc
The only welding on any of these aircraft I know is TIG on titanium ducts and door sill plates on entry door openings and cargo door openings.
The rest of the structural part of the airplane is sheetmetal and composite held together with rivets (soild & cherry), hi loks, hucks, bolts and glue for the composite part.

 

[bobodu]

You gotta remember how some guys will argue MIG all day long,but if you read back far enough,they will plainly admit that they can't strike an arc in the first place!!!

 

[gemini5362]

You gotta remember how some guys will argue MIG all day long,but if you read back far enough,they will plainly admit that they can't strike an arc in the first place!!!

You dont have to read back any distance to find me admitting that. I cant strike an arc worth a flip. I cant mig weld very pretty either. I can weld something for my use and although it might not work pretty it holds together well and that is why I weld things is to hold them together. These guys that make things and know what they are doing is great. There are a lot of us on this website who dont make hotrolled cylinders. Airplanes or even Propane tanks, we just fix things that we broke on our tractor equipment or we fabricate small items. We get along just fine with a mig. If you have the budget for one then why spend a lot of time learning to arc weld correctly. Life is too short. Grab a mig and some steel and enjoy.

 

[Sully2]

I believe the statement was MIG welded, and while I am not knowlegable with the aircraft models you mentioned, I have seen an airfield after sleeping at a Holiday Inn and cannot think of a single MIG welded component. (and yes I am a licensed Aircraft sheetmetal guy)

The above mentioned aircraft..along with the F18...are the mainstay combat aircraft presently used my the US Armed forces...??

Onlt thing I knopw about the SHEETMETAL on the fuselage is that typically its RIVETED on..or held in place with 1/4 turn fasteners..!

 

[AlanB]

The above mentioned aircraft..along with the F18...are the mainstay combat aircraft presently used my the US Armed forces...??

Onlt thing I knopw about the SHEETMETAL on the fuselage is that typically its RIVETED on..or held in place with 1/4 turn fasteners..!

Sully I did not say I did not know what those aircraft were, I said I was not Knowledgable on them as in I have not had direct working experience on those airframes, and from the sound of your post, I wonder how much direct airframe work you have done on them.

That said, most of my experience is Rotary Wing, UH-1, AH-1, UH/MH-60, CH/MH-47, OH/AH-58, AH-64 and just a touch of killer eggs.

So my question again, as your statement said there are MANY Mig welded pieces on those aircraft, and I would assume that you have knowledge I don't, please just give me an example of one or two so that I can increase my knowledge in a field that I thought I was vaugely familiar with.

Thanks

 

[mbohuntr]

Back to your tank, We used to sub arc boiler shells 20 years ago, the machine made a top(outside) pass, then the operater would gouge out the inside and run an inside pass. All welds were x-rayed and stamped. (ASME IX)As to downhand spray-arc on your tank? IMHO, the cert test is rigged because they required you to run multiple passes quickly thereby getting around the issue of cold fusion. Those welders who let the work cool failed miserably. The tank may by light enough guage to run mig on and get good fusion, but I would not do it downhand... and it will be brittle.

 

[wushaw]

Sully I did not say I did not know what those aircraft were, I said I was not Knowledgable on them as in I have not had direct working experience on those airframes, and from the sound of your post, I wonder how much direct airframe work you have done on them.

That said, most of my experience is Rotary Wing, UH-1, AH-1, UH/MH-60, CH/MH-47, OH/AH-58, AH-64 and just a touch of killer eggs.

So my question again, as your statement said there are MANY Mig welded pieces on those aircraft, and I would assume that you have knowledge I don't, please just give me an example of one or two so that I can increase my knowledge in a field that I thought I was vaugely familiar with.

Thanks

LOL Now that's funny

Sully; the last time I looked at a F18 sittin on the ramp I seen nothin but hi loks holdin that thing together, Douglas...now Boeing (who built the F18) loves these things called hi loks. Titanium is a favorite and a complete &%$#@ to drill.

1/4 turn fastners are what are used on non-structural panels.

 

[AlanB]

Back to the tank, I was there last night looking at it. God I love hanging out in those shops, and asking and learning but am thankful I don't need to be there making my living.

Anyway, what they did on the tank was after the tacks, and everything was in place etc. etc. they went through on the inside and welded DC 6010, then they came outside with a 4.5" grinder, and ground through the tacks and through the joint into the 6010 bead and then welded from the outside with mig, did not look at exactly what they were burning, some big old Airco unit powering one of those industrial driver feeders.

I asked why they did not just do Mig throughout, in and out, and was told that when they do Mig on the tanks like that, you alsways stand the possibility of spattering a bit somewhere as you are running the beads. And anytime you get that pop / spatter when running the bead, you may as well grind it out and go again as it will be sure too leak. (I would agree with that statement) He said with the 6010 they get the nice hot flowing seam in there and it will be water / pressure (fuel I hope) tight and then the Mig topcap is almost insurance.

Should show up here early next week I imagine.

Will grab some pics then.

I had just never heard anyone say that the 7018 would be more malleable than the Mig, there is always something to learn though.

 

[mbohuntr]

Sounds good, I might have used fluxcore on the outside, good penetration, and slight risk of worm holes. Makes a nice smooth bead. need some pics...

 

[AlanB]

It is so Dark in that shop that my cheapie camera does nothing.

Not sure if they have it out of the shop yet or not for paint.

 

[FarmDiesel]

I can't provide a ton of examples, but I do know that, for example, the 'shoulder' frame on an F-111 swing-wing fighter/bomber was MIG welded by a robot.

 

[Sully2]

I can't provide a ton of examples, but I do know that, for example, the 'shoulder' frame on an F-111 swing-wing fighter/bomber was MIG welded by a robot.

Sure.. Many of the frame items have to be welded because you cant make some of those crazy shapes any other way. Life limited items ( mounts and such) are near net forged and then fully machined

 

[AlanB]

Well, they are doing finishing shop touches, and getting ready for paint.

Only 10 years or so from thinking about it too when it will be in the yard working............. How do you eat an elephant

 

[bobodu]

How do you eat an elephant

Same way you eat a rabbit........start with the ears.

 

[patrick_g]

Quarter turn fasteners, quarter turn fasteners...

What about Dzus fasteners??? Dzus, the ORIGINAL quarter turn fastener used in aircraft and many other applications.

...or we can call them those deally bobbers that hold a panel in place with with only a little turn...

Pat

 

[Sully2]

Quarter turn fasteners, quarter turn fasteners...

What about Dzus fasteners??? Dzus, the ORIGINAL quarter turn fastener used in aircraft and many other applications.

Pat

Yep! Dzus is just one company that makes 1/4 turn fasteners.

 

[patrick_g]

Yep! Dzus is just one company that makes 1/4 turn fasteners.

First to do so I believe and back in the olden days when I was in the USAF, Dzus was to quarter turn fasteners like Kleenex was to facial tissue. It had become the generic term for quarter turn fasteners. Do a good job and you will be copied.

Pat