Traction Incredible - No damage resulting from putting gas into my Kioti Diesel Engine

[MHarryE]

I used to live in France, working for a large American company. Often had visitors, mostly other engineers, from America. Back then, 2000 - 2010, 2/3 of the cars in France were diesels. You wouldn’t believe how many of my friends put gas in their diesel rentals. After all, in America there is nothing like a rental diesel car. Some never realized what they had done. Some realized it afterward - told them to just keep topping off with diesel every day. Nobody ever had a problem. Nobody ever got a call from their rental company saying they ruined the engine and needed to pay up. All of these would have been newer common rail equipped engines which possibly are more tolerant of being misfueled because the electronics measuring combustion compensate. Older mechanical systems rely more on the fuel for lubricity. Japanese designed and built tend to be even more tolerant as in Japan the diesel has less lubricity.

 

[3930dave]

Interesting real-world data-set Harry.

(OP - you may not have ghosted here long enough..... MHarry has forgotten more about diesels, than many of us know....)

Rgds, D.

 

[CobyRupert]

If I were you I would pull this post down just in case you ever have a problem with your motor. If Kioti sees it you will lose your warranty on it for running it with gas in it.

Really? How? I can see it now (2 years from now):

OP: Hello Kioti, I'd like to get some warranty work done.
Kioti: Ok, what's your name?
OP: Rademamj1
Kioti: Oh, I'm sorry Mr. Rademamj1, we remember a thread on TBN from a couple years ago....

I doubt they could ever find out it was Marty xxxxxxxx's post.
Oh dang, I think I just proved Jim's point.

 

[rademamj1]

The voiding of Kioti warranty was almost a non-issue when speaking to my Kioti dealer. He was most concerned how to recover from putting gas in the tractor....and had no knowledge about its impact on a diesel engine. My Kioti dealer has a very good sale's staff and is attentive about basic maintenance. But my dealer lacks a mechanic with a strong knowledge of diesel engine fuel systems.

So that's why I visited the local Kubota dealer, who has a diesel mechanic who services skid steers and tractors, and asked him about me accidentally putting gas in diesel tractor. His recommendations were detailed and accurate, ".....drain the fuel tank at hose going into fuel filter, replace the fuel filter and prime it with diesel, run 5 hours listening for unusual engine noise. Your probably good to go."

Warranty loss was never discussed or seemed any issue to anyone, just getting back to operations was most important. I was concerned about potential for long term issues. That's why I made these posts.

 

[rademamj1]

By the way, this was my first time posting in this forum. I want to sincerely thank everyone for the comments and advice and recommendations I recieved. It was rewarding to see all the vast experience in this group, help a total stranger with his tractor problem. Much appreciated.

 

[VTland2clear]

Glad to hear that the tractor is fine, and that the Kioti dealer's priority was getting you going again.

 

[rademamj1]

Final update on my CK4010SEHC. My tractor went into a Tier4 emmission regen today, about 35 hours after me accidentally filling and running it on gas. Everything was normal during the regen, and also during the 35 hours use after purging the fuel system of all gas. My tractor is operating to perfection. So there does not appear to be any long term issues.

 

[JimR]

Final update on my CK4010SEHC. My tractor went into a Tier4 emmission regen today, about 35 hours after me accidentally filling and running it on gas. Everything was normal during the regen, and also during the 35 hours use after purging the fuel system of all gas. My tractor is operating to perfection. So there does not appear to be any long term issues.

That is a definite plus that no damage was done.

 

[tradosaurus]

By the way, this was my first time posting in this forum. I want to sincerely thank everyone for the comments and advice and recommendations I recieved. It was rewarding to see all the vast experience in this group, help a total stranger with his tractor problem. Much appreciated.

I would like to see a poll put up that asks how many tractor owners have ever put gas in their diesel tank? I would be over 50%.

I did this a month previous. However I realized it before I started the tractor and drained it all out of the tank. I even use yellow cans for diesel and red for gas but STILL made the mistake.

 

[rScotty]

I know exactly what you mean dumb mistakes. My mistake came at the very end of the day, working seven hours with the tractor doing stump grinding and wood chipping. Temperature was 98F in Texas that day, and certainly contributed to my lack of focus. I have Gas clearly marked on my yellow cans and Diesel clearly marked on my red cans, and i still made this dumb mistake..... SNIP

Your post startled me because I do it the other way around, using yellow cans for diesel and red for gas. Is there a standard convention?
rScotty

 

[aczlan]

Your post startled me because I do it the other way around, using yellow cans for diesel and red for gas. Is there a standard convention?
rScotty

The yellow cans sold at the store are generally marked diesel and the red ones are generally marked gasoline, so you are following convention.

Aaron Z

 

[Katahdin]

It may be reassuring to remember that there are multifuel engines out there designed to run on both gas and diesel.
Reo multi-fuel army trucks were one example. If I remember correctly, Reo called that truck the Eager Beaver. I never owned one, so I don't know what was required to switch from one fuel to the other.
I do have a Rolls-Royce K60 diesel that is called multi-fuel. I've never run it on gasoline, but the manual says it makes the transition automatically, depending on the density of the fuel. Again, I'm not sure what is involved, but apparently it changes injection timing, possibly amount of fuel injected, maybe other things, but it does run both fuels through the same engine.

You're on the right track, but the REO trucks built in the 1950s were gasoline only. REO was defunct when the LDx-427 and 465 multifuel engines were introduced. The multifuel trucks were built in the old Studebaker plant under Kaiser Jeep and American General brands. But it was in fact the REO designed chassis the multifuel engines were going into.

MAN designed the multifuel combustion process and licensed it to the companies building the multifuel engines under US contract: Continental, Hercules, and White.

The important thing to keep in mind, the engines were designed to run on leaded gasoline, which had more lubricity than unleaded. Gasoline will shorten the life of the injection pump. Other than that, there is nothing else involved. You can mix fuels in any ratio, and timing does not change. You only get less horsepower from burning gasoline. The LDx-465 model had a fuel density compensator which would try to remedy the horsepower loss, but this was later disabled on the D model, I think to meet 1980s emission requirements.

This Popular Mechanics article explains the multifuel combustion process better than I can: link

I was not aware of the Rolls-Royce K60 multifuel, I will have to do more research on that. I own four LDx-465s, three in trucks, and one spare.

 

[rademamj1]

Actually, none of the fuel cans I purchased where premarked with types of fuel. I will still continue to use gas in my yellow and Diesel on my red cans, because that is the way I have them permanently marked now. My concern has never been what "color" my fuel cans are, but rather I could expect any long term problems with the diesel. I am now 40hrs past the wrong fuel incident and no issues what so ever. I just went through a automatic regen with perfection. With 350hrs now on the Kioti, not a single issue has occured with this tractor.

 

[LouNY]

From what I can recall and from what I have recently read the standard colors for fuel cans (plastic) are;
red for gasoline,
yellow for diesel,
blue for kerosene.
But so far is is up to the owner as to what they put in there containers.
Heck we use used oil and transmission fluid 5 gallon pails for fuel quite often.

If anyone cares what CARB and EPA think here you go;
New Regulations for Portable Fuel Containers

 

[3930dave]

You're on the right track, but the REO trucks built in the 1950s were gasoline only. REO was defunct when the LDx-427 and 465 multifuel engines were introduced. The multifuel trucks were built in the old Studebaker plant under Kaiser Jeep and American General brands. But it was in fact the REO designed chassis the multifuel engines were going into.

MAN designed the multifuel combustion process and licensed it to the companies building the multifuel engines under US contract: Continental, Hercules, and White.

The important thing to keep in mind, the engines were designed to run on leaded gasoline, which had more lubricity than unleaded. Gasoline will shorten the life of the injection pump. Other than that, there is nothing else involved. You can mix fuels in any ratio, and timing does not change. You only get less horsepower from burning gasoline. The LDx-465 model had a fuel density compensator which would try to remedy the horsepower loss, but this was later disabled on the D model, I think to meet 1980s emission requirements.

This Popular Mechanics article explains the multifuel combustion process better than I can: link

I was not aware of the Rolls-Royce K60 multifuel, I will have to do more research on that. I own four LDx-465s, three in trucks, and one spare.

Thanks for posting that info...... good example of why I still hang around TBN.

I stick with the Red = Gas, Y = Dzl. I have one neighbour I'd trust to fuel my generators and tractor, and I know that is what he'd expect.

I have one friend who does intentionally reverse those 2 colours, not labelled, but that's because people used to "borrow" fuel from him.

I've found that a lot of people don't read labels and are more programmed by colour. I think it was on here one of the guys posted about his wife drinking out of Gatorade bottle that was in his garage, clearly labelled "Poison, Do Not Drink !" Bottle had yellow Prestone in it.

There's been a number of examples on TBN lately of people mis-fuelling, often from clearly designated containers......... Whatever works for You, go for it.....

Rgds, D.

 

[Jstpssng]

^^^^
The landscaping company I worked for years ago was always reusing oil containers for various purposes. They sent the two youngest crew members out of town for a few days in a truck with a newly rebuilt 305 engine. Somewhere along the line they needed oil so dumped some in from a gallon jug they found in the back... not noticing the hand written markings in small letters which said "Roundup".
IIRC, it took every gasket out of the engine.

 

[3930dave]

Roundup as gasket remover......

^ why I still hang around TBN..... I often learn something everyday !

Rgds, D.

 

[buickanddeere]

Yellow for diesel , red for gasoline and blue for kerosene.
10% gasoline should not make a lick of difference . Yanmar and VW at one time recommend up to 30% gasoline in the diesel at -40F to improve volatility and reduce filter waxing.

 

[Trillium Farm]

Actually, none of the fuel cans I purchased where premarked with types of fuel. I will still continue to use gas in my yellow and Diesel on my red cans, because that is the way I have them permanently marked now. My concern has never been what "color" my fuel cans are, but rather I could expect any long term problems with the diesel. I am now 40hrs past the wrong fuel incident and no issues what so ever. I just went through a automatic regen with perfection. With 350hrs now on the Kioti, not a single issue has occured with this tractor.

Follow what LouNY said and change the content of the cans, this is an international standard and even if not marked most people will know that Yellow is diesel Red is Gas and Blue Kerosene.