Increase Kubota FEL tilt

[4570Man]

Of course you can. It is not a telescoping cylinder, the cylinder is pushing a gear that meshes with the rack. As the wheel is pushed forward and turns, the rack gets sent forward. Between the length of the hydraulic cylinder AND the length of the rack, you get twice the distance traveled, at the same force.

It is mechanical over hydraulic...

That’s simple leverage 101. Double the distance traveled with the same force applied is half the force. If you want to double the distance traveled and maintain the same force you’ll need a bigger or longer cylinder. A loader can’t lift anything close to what the cylinders can push because it’s lost a lot to leverage.

 

[KWentling]

I'm with Viny here. I don't get it. I think I get the doubling the stroke concept, but not retaining the power.

I couldn't really picture this in my mind the first time you suggested it. Is there an example you could refer to to illustrate this idea? Perhaps a Youtube video or pictures of something similar? Thanks in advance!

 

[4570Man]

I'm with Viny here. I don't get it. I think I get the doubling the stroke concept, but not retaining the power.

Something like this is what he’s talking about. You’re going to lose half the power to move twice as far plus friction losses. And that looks too bulky and complicated to use in the application. Application of rack pinion mechanism 1 - YouTube

 

[KWentling]

That's what I was thinking of too. And agree with the big losses.

Something like this is what he’s talking about. You’re going to lose half the power to move twice as far plus friction losses. And that looks too bulky and complicated to use in the application. Application of rack pinion mechanism 1 - YouTube

 

[SnailTraX]

Why not add or make a new bracket at the top of the top cylinder on the loader arm. Please excuse my poor photo editing skills. Rough looking drawing at the top of cylinder.

 

[Viny]

Mikester's solution is probably the best and the easiest to do.

If you really want to, you could also modify the loader. The way they mounted the curl cylinders, makes it actually easier to modify the position. It could probably help with other attachments as well but it's a bit more complex to do.

This is what I did on my homemade loader and it's used in most loaders. This linkage allows for more curl back and dump angles without compromising the force of the cylinders. To get this the way I wanted, I played with CAD programs a lot and made lots of changes till I was happy. This can also be done with a simple cardboard or MDF or something like that.

Playing with this linkage exactly right, you can retain the same cylinders without modifications.

Well, TBN is a bit messed up at the moment and it's hard to add pictures. Hopefully it works.

Well, I think I'm most intrigued with your solution at this point. A separate adapter being a close second.

So, looking back on your process to arrive at your solution, if you had to do it again, how would you proceed? Is there anything you'd do differently? Any other questions like this, that I can't think of, that I should ask? Thanks in advance for any guidance!

 

[ptsg]

Well, I think I'm most intrigued with your solution at this point. A separate adapter being a close second.

So, looking back on your process to arrive at your solution, if you had to do it again, how would you proceed? Is there anything you'd do differently? Any other questions like this, that I can't think of, that I should ask? Thanks in advance for any guidance!

In my case, I designed and built the entire loader myself, including machining the cylinders. It wasn't too hard since it was part of the design.

On your case, it's a bit more complicated. To add the linkage, you would need to move the rear cylinder mount back a bit, and probably move the holes on the quick attach down as well, so there is space for the linkage and to get the right geometry.

This will of course require some tooling. You'll need to open some big holes, cutting and weld stuff, and so on. This can be quite a complex project if you're not into fabrication.

SnailtraX also gave a pretty nice solution. You would add another rear cylinder mount in front of your current one. And every time you used that mower, you would move the cylinders to the forward hole.

Now, I was looking at it a bit more closely and noticed that your loader have two stops welded in the bottom. This would need to be removed or moved in order to get more tilt. Not messing with this stop, means you're option now is modifying the hitch on the mower.

 

[Viny]

In my case, I designed and built the entire loader myself, including machining the cylinders. It wasn't too hard since it was part of the design.

On your case, it's a bit more complicated. To add the linkage, you would need to move the rear cylinder mount back a bit, and probably move the holes on the quick attach down as well, so there is space for the linkage and to get the right geometry.

This will of course require some tooling. You'll need to open some big holes, cutting and weld stuff, and so on. This can be quite a complex project if you're not into fabrication.

SnailtraX also gave a pretty nice solution. You would add another rear cylinder mount in front of your current one. And every time you used that mower, you would move the cylinders to the forward hole.

Now, I was looking at it a bit more closely and noticed that your loader have two stops welded in the bottom. This would need to be removed or moved in order to get more tilt. Not messing with this stop, means you're option now is modifying the hitch on the mower.

Well that's quite impressive that you built that entire thing. I am into fabrication, though this might be a bridge too far. We'll see...

I will revisit that option of additional mounting holes for the rear of the cylinders. I must either have missed that or just didn't "get" it.

The stops worked with the factory bucket. I need to see if they'll be in the way.

 

[Viny]

So, more out of the box, brainstorming here. In the vein of adding additional mounting brackets for the rear of the cylinders, instead, how about the addition of a hinged affair on the business end of the cylinders? What I'm envisioning here is a 2 piece (for each side) over-grown hinge that would sit in between the cylinder and the quick-attach plate. The difference here is that it would be constructed to allow the hinge to be closed and bolted shut for a shorter length. The tension would then be removed via setting the loader on the ground and the bolt removed and the additional length (hence angle) would present itself as the "hinge" unfolded.

I was thinking about the lack of rigidity of this(when open) being a possible problem, but I suspect the top arms are mostly in tension. (I'd need some smarter guys to confirm that).

The upside of this idea, imo, is that it would be fairly easy to build and not require really any additional modification to the loader. Thoughts?

 

[Xfaxman]

My brush hog has a hinged SSQA mount plate:

You could make one on your mower with the hinge pin at the bottom and a way to lock the hinge while using:

Then sell the idea to Trailblazer. :thumbsup:

 

[Viny]

My brush hog has a hinged SSQA mount plate:

View attachment 655155 View attachment 655157


You could make one on your mower with the hinge pin at the bottom and a way to lock the hinge while using:

View attachment 655156

Then sell the idea to Trailblazer. :thumbsup:

Yes, that's another way to play the ssqa adapter plate. Did you make yours? Can you take another picture or two, close up, showing your pivots, etc? I'm definitely working through quite a few strategies...!

 

[Viny]

Could you hang a counter weight on the mower while you change the config. Make the counter weight so that the mower hangs at what ever angle works. Just an off the wall idea :confused3:

gg

I'm not sure where that would hang due to the configurable nature of the mower. It moves into many positions relative to it's yellow mount plate. My initial impressions are that it would be something very complicated...

 

[Xfaxman]

Yes, that's another way to play the ssqa adapter plate. Did you make yours? Can you take another picture or two, close up, showing your pivots, etc? I'm definitely working through quite a few strategies...!

Did not make it. It is made like a door hinge. The attachment plate is welded to the hinge.

One way to do what you need is it buy or make another attachment plate and hinge it at the bottom.

Pictures from Grace MFG Website:

And mine not connected, looking from the front. The attachment plate is at the back right:

 

[Viny]

Ok, here's a quick update. Based on ptsg's mention of the bucket stops, I inspected those and indeed the qa plate was hitting/stopping on them. I went ahead and cut them off and I got a fair amount of additional tilt. The qa still stops on the mount and it appears I can cut a bit more off and possibly get more travel out of the cylinders unless they bottom out. I'm not sure how I could figure that out before cutting?

I did get about 1 1/2" of additional travel out of the cylinders.

Anyway, here's a couple of pictures to show the gain. I'm reposting the original pic to show the difference. Who knows, I may get out of this without having to build something!

 

[ptsg]

It did make a difference. I don't think you'll be able to get the mower vertical by just cutting the stop though, but it's something already.

You can always measure the cylinder the way it is now, then disconnect the pin on the quick attach and extend the cylinder to see if there is any travel left in it.

The stops are there for a reason, so if the quick attach hit the stops at the same time the cylinders has no more travel, it would be golden.

 

[Viny]

I actually thought about doing that to see how much more travel. As for the travel and the stop hitting at the same time, you don't ask for much! :dance1:

 

[Viny]

I unpinned one side and lo and behold there's quite a bit more travel available. So, I spent a bit of time yesterday whittlin' on the stop mounts and recovered most of the travel. I believe I have about 1" remaining that I might be able to get. All told, I believe there's close to 4" difference from where I started this whine-fest to the now known available cylinder travel. So, to be clear, I've recovered about 3" of the 4" available.

I might have to completely remove the ssqa (temporarily) to get at the current bind spot. We'll see...

 

[ptsg]

Nice! You're getting somewhere now.

Should be getting closer to your goal now.

 

[Viny]

Just a quick update. I finally got around to putting the mower back on and attempted to adjust the configuration. By backing up the tractor onto a small incline, I was able to horse the mower around with moderate effort as it is still in a small amount of bind. So close! I guess when the time presents itself, I will go back after that remaining inch or so of travel of the hydraulic cylinders. But I think it is close enough for the time being that I can probably shelve the idea of an additional adapter or a more radical modification of the FEL. I really do appreciate all of the discussion about this with you guys! Have a great summer of tractoring!

 

[Xfaxman]

:thumbsup: Thanks for the update.