Improperly Ballasted

[deerefan]

Ok, here goes...yesterday I was cutting brush on a hillside w/ my JD 5103 and I came to a stop. I put the tractor in park, disengaged the pto and climbed off to move a fallen branch. I climbed back on the tractor and proceeded to go. As I eased out the clutch, the tractor rared up, pulling the front wheels about 1.5 ft off the ground. Now, if I was on flat ground, this would not have bothered me much. The fact I was on a hill side, it caused a great deal of concern. I had my rops up and seatbelt on, being as prepared as possible for a rollover. I did not do anything unusual to cause this (dump the clutch, take off at full throttle, etc..). My bushhog is a 6ft midduty Bushhog #286. Though heavy, the tractor, according to all literature, can handle this implement and then some. I really wish they would properly ballast these tractors from the factory. It seems they ballast them ok for non-implement use, but any implement with a decent amount of weight and the front end becomes to lite. With tractors only getting lighter w/ the use off all these plastics, it is only a matter of time before someone gets into a real bind b/c of this. I understand the physics of the situation clearly and other than this absolutely love the tractor. Plenty of power, comfortable, etc... I wish more time was spent at the factory and drawing board for proper ballasting and weight distribution. This is a real safety issue that needs to be addressed.

 

[HammerFour]

First, I'm glad you didn't flip over or hurt yourself.

They don't ballast them from the factory as they don't know what you are going to put on the tractor. Part of tractor operation is making sure the tractor has the right weight balance to do the job and be safe. Sorry, but that means its your job.

At the factory if they built in 750 pounds of front weight, then you decided you wanted a front end loader, you would still have to pay for that 750 pounds of front ballast that you didn't need and can't use with the front end loader.

If they specified 750 pounds of rear weight with every front end loader, you would be paying for that when you don't need it if you always have a box blade on the back when you use the front end loader......

 

[RoyJackson]

"This is a real safety issue that needs to be addressed"

This is an operator issue...not a tractor problem. It is up to the operator to ensure the tractor is properly ballasted for a task.

I suggest you think more about how you operate your tractor rather then complain the manufacturer didn't do their job...they did...you didn't.

 

[SteveInMD]

Well, er....we are all here to learn, right?

A bushhog requires quite a lot of front weight because a bushhog is a fairly long implement. In other words the weight is far behind the rear wheels and therefore has a lot of leverage. If the tractor is pointed up hill at all then the center of gravity of the tractor is already further back than on flat ground.

I used to bushhog with my FEL off sometimes, but I've learned it's better to leave it on.

Look at it this way, if you don't have one it's a great reason to buy a loader!

 

[browns40]

Hi deerefan,

Not much to add here...

No doubt a larger tractor gives you the sense it can handle more at either end of it, and it can.... but every implement you put on is going to require some planning on the operator's part to achieve the equilibrium the "naked" tractor has.

The bush hog especially, because of the leverage issue cited, & bouncing when raising or lowering it... it sticks out, suspended from the 3 pt a long way... 3/4 a tractor length or better in some cases...

I've done a bit of commercial fishing, and we used "gullwings" off the sides 12 or 15 feet to increase stability when fishing in rough weather... they are small compared to the boat as a whole, but the leverage imparted by a small object held a distance away from the center of gravity...

Real world would be holding a milk jug out at arms length vs. at the shoulder... the milk jug still is 8 pounds, but...

Check your owners manuals for recommended codes for front & rear ballast... if your hog didn't have it in the literature, the Deere should have... required weight will probably shock you, esp. for the hog!

And hey, it's the eye-openers without a price that are the nicest lessons!

Happy tractoring!

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[deerefan]

I agree with what everyone is saying. My point is this...if the manufacturer knows what type of implements match to what type of tractor, then they should put a little more effort in equalizing weight distribution. I'm not saying the manufacturer did a poor job building the 5103, just making a suggestion that they pay a little more attention to these things. Now, if i was pulling an 8ft bushhog, not recommended for the tractor and this happened, that's my fault. But I'm using the recommended size implements! If they advertise the 5103 is recommended for 6ft items or items of similar weight...hang that much weight off the back of the tractor at different lengths and add weight to the front accordingly. Or, sell the tractor with weights installed. Just an observation. Otherwise, the tractor is great, runs great, plenty of power. This is not a knock against JD or anyone else, just one man's point of view.

 

[Sully2]

But it simply cant be done! The maker of the tractor can specify SIZE of impliments to use...but unless your using THAT BRAND and MODEL of impliment..the actual weight can be god knows what???

Let alone being on a slope...your asking JD...in this case...to be able to ready your mind ahead of time.

YOU use your tractor wiht a 6 ft bushhog of "X" weight...the next guy buys a "brand Y" ..6 ft bushhog that weighs 250 lbs more! OR..maybe nothing on the BACK at all..and uses a 800 pound snowblower or ??..on the FRONT of his.

Its ALL up to the operator..period!

 

[Dutch445]

Going to have to agree with the other posters,,
Deere did their job..
Did you get a manual with your tractor?
here is the page referring to rear implements
and proper ballast:
ballast requirements

and here is a page out of our MX6 mower that shows
it's implement and ballast code:
implement ballast codes

Looks to me like Deere did everything possible to recommend
proper ballast for your tractor, but you must not have read that part, and attempt to blame them for your mistake.

sorry, but it's not fair to put blame on another for your own
ignorance... especially when safety and liability are concerned.

 

[deerefan]

Ok everyone....read the last post. I'm not saying Deere did anything wrong. Or anyone else for that matter. Basically, put a little more weight in the front end to compliment the correct size implement for the tractor. That's it. I'm not bashing, blaming or pointing fingers. Just a mere suggestion. My 8N does the same thing....again, just an observation. Pointing it out to keep folks from getting hurt. Clear now?

 

[Dutch445]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( This is a real safety issue that needs to be addressed )</font>

A statement like that is implying the manufacturer has not
addressed the situation, but clearly they have. There is no
way to build a tractor compatable out of the box to run every implement available. That is what makes them so versatile, front implements, side implements, (mowers) and rear implements are all available for tractors like this, but each usage requires different ballasting and setup recommendations.
I'll take back the ignorance comment, wasn't trying to cause a problem, but today so many people are quick to blame others for their own actions.
Here is a question.. did the dealer know the application for the tractor? were they aware of the size of the rotary cutter and it's weight? where you were going to be using it? like you said, on flat ground, not a problem... all of these things come into play because very few of us live on a perfectly flat piece of property.. that's what makes this country so beautiful!

glad you like your tractor, it is a workhorse of a machine for sure.

 

[deerefan]

No problems caused. The dealer knew b/c I bought the tractor and cutter at the same time. I asked very detailed questions about this combo and this was one of my concerns. I was going to go w/ a 7ft cutter but he advised the 6ft would be better for that is what the tractor calls for. Just found it a little lite in the front when using the required implements.

 

[wushaw]

Suitcase weights or FEL attached, I would do the suitcase weight thing just to keep the tractor shorter and more nimbal.

 

[SteveInMD]

I can see the point that the dealer might have mentioned that you could use from front end weight, if he sold you the tractor and rotary cutter at the same time, and he didn't sell you an FEL. However, if the tractor came stock with more front weight, and you wanted and FEL, then you've just wasted money on front weights that you should remove due to the FEL.

 

[HayDR]

An 8' 2 spindle 3 point mower would actually have a center of gravety closer to the tractor than a 6' or 7' single spindle 3 point cutter. Take a Rhino SE8 rotary cutter. The streamlined, close-coupled design allows economical operation on tractors as small as 30 HP.

 

[JoeinTX]

Not trying to pile on, but no OEM can properly rig a tractor for any and all conceivable uses. When you bought the tractor and shredder, did the dealer mention front weights to you? Not completely necessary, but I would've tried to sell them to you.

 

[TwinWillows]

What timing - I recently bought a new Rhino SE6 (?) bushhog & never heard that a 8' 2 shaft would work behind my NH TC40DA. What's one of those 2 shaft 8' ers go for? It might be worth trying to sell my 6' & getting 2 extra feet of cut.

 

[Birdhunter1]

in regards to teh newer tractors being lighter with all the plastic and such......
I have a 1968 MF 135 and added two 50 lb. suitcase weights to the front, to a tractor that is all steel construction, to alleviate this problem with the front being too light.

 

[Whiskey]

deerefan:

Look as if your getin' it from both ends, so I won't add to the "it's your fault" thingy.

Just a little differant idea on how to get under way while mowing, or at least how I do it......

1) Butt on seat
2) Belt on
3) Tractor started
4) 1500 or less RPM's ingage the mower and let off the clutch (just enuff RPM's to keep the motor from lugging)
5) Once it's all spinning good and smooth push clutch back in and select a gear and let out clutch and once moving push the hand throttle to where you want it....and off you go.

This will keep the front wheels on the ground and better on your equipment for the long haul.....

 

[keeney]

I will say that when I purchased my front loader, the dealer did everything in his power to sell me a ballast box because he knew it would be required to properly ballast the tractor with the loader. (I didn't buy it because I knew from TBN that I could make a ballast block out of bare concrete a lot cheaper).

So in my limited experience, the dealer has some responsibility to recommend a configuraiton of the tractor that has all the necessary ballast at the time its sold. If the dealer didn't even ask the buyer what they intended to do with it, then the dealer didn't impart some important informaiton they could have. If they suggested front weights and the buyer declined, well, they can only lead the horse to the water...

- Rick