Illegal or just confused...

[Diamondback]

OK, I just went throught several pages of a related thread and am still confused. Hope this in not a dead horse subject. I'm relatively new to towing heavier equipment.

Situation...I had a trailer with (2) 5k axles, brakes on both. Says plainly on the tongue not to exeed 8000lbs of cargo. Recently bought a used machine that specs say weighs slightly over 8000lbs with thumb. I just used the trailer approximately 3-4 times a years to have machine serviced so most folks I talked to said not to worry about it. Well... I did.

Not wanting to take the chance of something breaking at 55-60mph with a $30,000 machine aboard (not to mention the potential liability issues in the event of an accident) I decided to play it safe and trade the trailer for a better grade trailer with (2) 6k axles, brakes and more bells/whistles. Seller made no mention of any special license to use it.

Now, I'm getting conflicting info as to me being legal to tow it with my 2500 Dodge diesel. NC Trooper I spoke to about it says I'm OK if combined weight(truck, trailer and machine) is not over 26k. Called the weigh station...he says if the trailer is rated over 10k I must have a Classified Class A license to pull it. NC Driver license Examiner in my town says I must be over 26k to even get a Classified Class A.

All I wanted to do was be safer...now I don't even know If I'm legal. If anyone out there can shed some light on the situation...PLEASE HELP!

 

[mytoys]

OK, so without a cdl license you can tow a 10,000 trailer. That's 10k total load with trailer and tractor combined. I have a 10k trailer and it weighs around 1800 lbs. That means that i can tow a tractor that weighs no more than 8200 lbs. 1800 + 8200 = 10,000lbs.

If the tag (little plate from the manufacturer) says the trailer is 10,000 pound gross weight you're ok. If it says 12,000lbs you aren't.

My tractor with all the implements (loader and backhoe) weighs 6900. I took it to the local truck stop and weighed it. I'm ok and legal.

The other piece about the 26000 lbs goes like this. You cannot exceed the combined weight of truck and trailer of 26000lbs. So if you have a 10000lb trailer, the largest truck you can tow it with would be say an f-450. The f-450 has a gvw of 15000. So 15000 (truck) + 10000 (trailer) = 25000lbs combined.

You could drive a truck with a gvw as high as 26000lbs without a cdl but you couldn't legally pull a trailer with that truck withot a cdl.

Thanks for allowing me to confuse you more.

 

[hunterridgefarm]

OK, I just went throught several pages of a related thread and am still confused. Hope this in not a dead horse subject. I'm relatively new to towing heavier equipment.

Situation...I had a trailer with (2) 5k axles, brakes on both. Says plainly on the tongue not to exeed 8000lbs of cargo. Recently bought a used machine that specs say weighs slightly over 8000lbs with thumb. I just used the trailer approximately 3-4 times a years to have machine serviced so most folks I talked to said not to worry about it. Well... I did.

Not wanting to take the chance of something breaking at 55-60mph with a $30,000 machine aboard (not to mention the potential liability issues in the event of an accident) I decided to play it safe and trade the trailer for a better grade trailer with (2) 6k axles, brakes and more bells/whistles. Seller made no mention of any special license to use it.

Now, I'm getting conflicting info as to me being legal to tow it with my 2500 Dodge diesel. NC Trooper I spoke to about it says I'm OK if combined weight(truck, trailer and machine) is not over 26k. Called the weigh station...he says if the trailer is rated over 10k I must have a Classified Class A license to pull it. NC Driver license Examiner in my town says I must be over 26k to even get a Classified Class A.

All I wanted to do was be safer...now I don't even know If I'm legal. If anyone out there can shed some light on the situation...PLEASE HELP!

It is very confusing. But I ran into the same thing. Each state seems to have a different interpretation.

I was basically told the same thing. When I went to the License/ DMV office in my county the told me I needed a Classified Class A license but not a CDL if I bought a trailer with a GVWR over 10,000 lb. I was looking at a 12-14,000lb trailer. Stopped a DMV officer, he said Class A, Highway Patrol said he was not sure but do what the DMV officer said .

So I decided to call the NC DMV in Raleigh. They told me, over 10,000lb, Classified A license.

I do know a couple of people that have been stopped and ticketed for pulling a 14k trailer but it was a gooseneck. They don't seem to pull the bumper pull trailers as much.

This has been a hotly debated issue on TBN. But if I were you I would go with what the DMV in your county said or call the state office.

 

[Bird]

The only thing I can tell you for sure is that they've now made it complicated enough that no one can tell you anything for sure.

 

[SnowRidge]

The only thing I can tell you for sure is that they've now made it complicated enough that no one can tell you anything for sure.

Did someone put the IRS in charge of towing?

 

[Diamondback]

Thanks for the replies folks. Yup, a little confusing, but the prevailing wind says a Classified Class A is in order.

Hunterridgefarm, I live in Sylva, NC. The Drivers License Examiner here tells me I must still have a larger truck and/or trailer to get a CCA license not CDL. Plain and simple. He even went as far as to tell me to "borrow someones dually" that would bring the weight to over 26k...then he could let me test for the CCA. I see you are from WNC. Might I ask where you got the Classified Class A?

I'm not a pro and don't do work for hire. I just use the equipment to work on my personal property and just want to get it to and from the dealer without fear of a blue light in my mirror.

Now that I've bought the larger trailer it sounds I'm illegal to tow my smaller TLB due to the trailer's stated capacity. Maybe I shoulda just stayed with the smaller trailer. Life was simpler then

 

[wushaw]

Here it is written in large letters. I don't know where they get their "Classified" part since it just says regular Liscense Class A, B or C then on to CDL Class A, B or C
http://www.ncdot.org/dmv/driver_services/drivershandbook/download/NCDL_English.pdf

 

[Rara Avis]

OK, I just went throught several pages of a related thread and am still confused. Hope this in not a dead horse subject. I'm relatively new to towing heavier equipment.

Situation...I had a trailer with (2) 5k axles, brakes on both. Says plainly on the tongue not to exeed 8000lbs of cargo. Recently bought a used machine that specs say weighs slightly over 8000lbs with thumb. I just used the trailer approximately 3-4 times a years to have machine serviced so most folks I talked to said not to worry about it. Well... I did.

Not wanting to take the chance of something breaking at 55-60mph with a $30,000 machine aboard (not to mention the potential liability issues in the event of an accident) I decided to play it safe and trade the trailer for a better grade trailer with (2) 6k axles, brakes and more bells/whistles. Seller made no mention of any special license to use it.

Now, I'm getting conflicting info as to me being legal to tow it with my 2500 Dodge diesel. NC Trooper I spoke to about it says I'm OK if combined weight(truck, trailer and machine) is not over 26k. Called the weigh station...he says if the trailer is rated over 10k I must have a Classified Class A license to pull it. NC Driver license Examiner in my town says I must be over 26k to even get a Classified Class A.

All I wanted to do was be safer...now I don't even know If I'm legal. If anyone out there can shed some light on the situation...PLEASE HELP!

This is right out of your North Carolina DMV regs...

Types of North Carolina Driver Licenses
Commercial Class A: Vehicle or combination of vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more, if the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is more than 10,000 pounds.

Commercial Class B: Single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more, and any such vehicle towing a vehicle that does not weigh more than 10,000 pounds.

Commercial Class C: Any vehicle not described in Class A or B that is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or is used to transport hazardous materials that require the vehicle to be placarded.

Regular Class A: Any vehicle or combination of vehicles exempt from commercial driver license (CDL) requirements with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more. You would also require this type of license to operate any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds, if the vehicle being towed has a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds.

Regular Class B: Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more that is exempt from CDL requirements, and any such vehicle while towing another vehicle with a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or less.

Regular Class C: Needed to operate any vehicle with a GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds that is exempt from CDL requirements and is not towing a vehicle with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds. Most drivers need only a Regular Class C license to operate personal automobiles and small trucks. To operate a motorcycle, you will need a motorcycle endorsement.

 

[shaley]

Holy Cow man. I'd be scared to drive in Carolina.

 

[DavesTractor]

California is similar. A pickup truck with a trailer rated at 10,001 of more requires a CDL. And since it does, you can take your test in one. You will be restricted to driving a truck without airbrakes as your test vehicle doesn't have air brakes. I took my test in a dually with a gooseneck, but my 3/4t with my 14K bumper pull also requires a CDL and I could have taken the test with that also.

It seems that if your particular rig requires a certain license, then the same rig should suffice for the test, with restrictions of course for air brakes, etc.

Of course, it does not matter what California requires, NC rules are all that matter for you.

Getting a CDL is no big deal though, I'd just do it. Then come the issues of DOT numbers, or in California CA numbers and motor carrier permits. That is another can of worms! All because you want to be safe, you have pushed yourself up into additional regulation. Too bad they couldn't raise the trailer gvwr to 15K.

 

[FaC]

HunterRidge farm is correct. I have a Regular Class A NC license. You have to have this if the trailer is rated for 10,001 or higher. The combined weight must be 26,000 or less. In my case I have a F250SD and a 14K goose. You will have to take a short written test (not the full out CDL test) and take a driving test with the trailer.

Before you go I would make sure that the brakes and all of the lights work on the trailer and also make sure that the trailer has working breakaway brakes and safety chains.

Edit - Your examiner needs to re-read the book or call Raleigh. I took my driving test with the above rig (F250 SRW & goose).

FWIW - Frank

 

[shaley]

I would think you could have the trailer de-rated to 10k gvwr. Just as if you had built the trailer, the state police issues you a trailer placard. Tell them you put lighter springs on it and you want a smaller rating. They allow 5% overweight during an inspection anyway.

 

[Mahana79]

Holy Cow man. I'd be scared to drive in Carolina.

alot of states are this way. Texas is another. Getting a Reguler Class A isnt really a big deal. go ahead and get a non-CDL class a and you will be good for anything you will ever tow as long as it isnt for commercial use.

 

[Skyco]

This is all very confusing. I tow a dump trailer grossing around 14k frequently in NC. My driver's license is from SC, my residence. SC does not have a Class A license other than a CDL. I am not commercial. In SC the class D license, which is what most have, states-

"Class D
Passenger vehicles and all non-commercial vehicles that do not exceed 26,000 pounds gross vehicle weight"

Nothing is mentioned about trailers.
So- the big question is- am I legal in NC when towing there? I think I should be since I'm running on my home license and of course cannot obtain a NC one.

The whole term of Commercial Drivers License seems inappropriate since many states are dinging non-commercial drivers for not having one

 

[em14]

Everytime I think that I've got this mess figured out up jumps another look and I start all over again. I don't exceed the 26K number but I sure as the dickens exceed the 10K number and I'll bet there are lots of folks doing that ... just look at the number of large round bales of hay on goose-necks. With a empty trailor weight of about 5-6 k and a large round bale weighting about 1200 it doesn't take much to jump beyond a 10k limit!
Leo

 

[SnowRidge]

Is there some central authority of association that defines these classes? I just looked at the Tennessee laws, and they are just as confusing.

A class A would be required for towing a trailer grossing more than 10K. For towing less than 10,000 lbs, it appears to be a class D by elimination, except for when the tow vehicle itself requires a class B.

It would be nice if they were more specific about trailers. You almost need to be a lawyer to figure this stuff out.

In Tennessee, classes A, B, and C seem to be considered CDLs, and they have their own DL manual.

Tennessee DL Manual page attached.

 

[sandman2234]

If you guys think pulling a trailer and staying below the 26,000 magic number is hard, you ought to see what the guys with the "over 26,000" have to put up with. I am currently unemployed since the end of May, and am not employable in the trucking industry for doing something that if I had have a non CDL license, I would still be driving. I am still driving but the threat of loosing my license still looms in the horizon. If I am convicted of the ticket, I loose my license and career. For now it is just on hold while my case works it's way thru the courts.CDL's are easy to get but before you jump into one of them, consider the increased penalties when you do something wrong, since you are now considered a "professional driver". If I didn't make my living with one, I would not have it.
David from jax

On Edit:
I have a clean driving record, not even a parking ticket for the last 7 years, and have never even scratched a truck that was my fault. Consider that before you jump into a CDL.

 

[Dozernut]

em14
Not to cloud the waters but you are talking about two separate issues. Most states have adopted the federal interstate commerce regulations. The last time I checked all but about three states have adopted the federal regs, Ca. NY and and the 3rd I don't remember. The sticker on the driver side door will give you the GVWR of the towing unit. The tag on the trailer will give you the GVWR of it. Total them and if you are under 26001 lbs. then you are not considered a commercial vehicle, ""EXCEPT"" if the towed unit is over 10001 lbs GVWR. Some states have made provisions for the 10000 lb towed unit but a lot have not. So if you live on the state line and cross over to the neighboring state to go to the mill, you might have some issues. Where the confusion is coming in is when you have a 10000 lb GVWR trailer but you have a load that exceeds the 10000 lb. GVWR limit. This does not kick you up into the CDL range but you are overweight on registration. The fines can get hefty and unless your state has an agriculture exemption, (if caught) you will be ticketed and parked until you remove enough of the load to meet your registration limits. There are no exemptions for interstate commerce IE you are hauling your equipment to do a job. You can be within all of the mentioned GVWR limits and be alright there but then the Ole bridge law sticks it's head up. The bridge law is simply that you are allowed only so much weight per axle, exceed them and again a hefty fine and parked until load gets legal.

 

[Rara Avis]

If you guys think pulling a trailer and staying below the 26,000 magic number is hard, you ought to see what the guys with the "over 26,000" have to put up with. I am currently unemployed since the end of May, and am not employable in the trucking industry for doing something that if I had have a non CDL license, I would still be driving. I am still driving but the threat of loosing my license still looms in the horizon. If I am convicted of the ticket, I loose my license and career. For now it is just on hold while my case works it's way thru the courts.CDL's are easy to get but before you jump into one of them, consider the increased penalties when you do something wrong, since you are now considered a "professional driver". If I didn't make my living with one, I would not have it.
David from jax

On Edit:
I have a clean driving record, not even a parking ticket for the last 7 years, and have never even scratched a truck that was my fault. Consider that before you jump into a CDL.

Good luck...hopefully this too will pass...

Seven new provisions in the regulation address the following: disqualification for driving while suspended, disqualified, or causing a fatality; emergency disqualification of drivers posing an imminent hazard; expanded definition of serious traffic violations; extended driver record check; new notification requirements; masking prohibition; disqualification for violations obtained while driving a noncommercial motor vehicle (CMV).

Safety Programs - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

 

[Highbeam]

How about all of those RVs being towed all over heck and gone that weigh over 10,000? I suppose those drivers all need Class A licenses too. Many many RVs weigh more than 10k.

I own a 10k rated equipment trailer and since Dexter makes 5,200lb axles instead of 5000 lb axles, my trailer tag actually lists 10,400 as the GVWR. Dang it, I guess I am illegal again with my standard driver's license.