Idle hands.........

   / Idle hands......... #21  
Just set the hitch dowm on a jack stand under the hitch, unhook, proceed to load the trailer, back under the hitch again, raise 3pth, picking up hitch from stand, and away we go!!! I have a drawbar setup with a 2 5/16 ball on it and the hitch is a 2 5/16" hitch-- the size for trailer houses -- rigged on my 3pth. it works slick.. Just always remember the 'flip factor' when using 3 point this way. I wouldn't recommend it for tractors w/o FEL. Hydraman
 
   / Idle hands......... #22  
Nice setup. Got me to thinking that a similar setup could be rigged to pull behind a truck.
 
   / Idle hands......... #23  
Yeah; I have pulled this outfit behind a one ton, but had to be real careful because of no trlr brakes. And that ain't legal on the highways here, anyway! But if one has brakes on it, and hydraulics on the towing vehicle it would be a slick rig.Hydraman
 
   / Idle hands.........
  • Thread Starter
#24  
If you're handy and lucky you can find complete tail gate lifts off of trucks for a song. I have picked them up for free and paid as much as a hundred and fifty dollars for others. That gives you a twelve volt hydraulic pump, cylinder, and a control lever. Those componets along with some careful thought will give you a trailer that will dump at a very reasonable cost.

Of course you can buy a ready to weld up kit with the same componets for about eight hundred dollars from Pierce Wrecker Sales. You will have new items and a bigger cylinder. But you will be short about six hundred and fifty dollars too. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
 
   / Idle hands......... #25  
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

But again, for the guy who needs, wants, or has a small trailer that would be umpteen times more handy if it would dump this is a viable option. For everyone else there's other options, right?

<hr></blockquote>


The gardeners at the local dump taught me a useful trick. Tie both ends of a strong rope to your trailer hitch. Run it through the truck and over the hood with the ropes a few ft apart (I use a tarp now but the same principle applies). Load up the truck, toss the rope on top of the pile and tarp. Untarp at dump and hold the hoop of rope up in the air. Some guy in a tractor bigger than my house comes over and you hook the rope onto the hook welded to his bucket. He backs up and everything comes out of the truck. With the tarp between the rope and the contents I don't even have to sweep. Takes him 30 seconds to unload the entire truck. I now spend more time in line to get in than I do unloading. I don't know if your processing place offers "pull-offs" but if they do, they make unloading at the dump REAL EASY. The same process works just as well for a trailer as for a truck except you tie the rope to the back bumper of your trailer..

You could do the same for unloading at your place with your own tractor, or, I suppose, you could tie the rope to a nearby tree and drive away. The rope would pull the contents out of the truck / trailor. Best to tie it high on the tree. Not too useful for sand.

A dump bed truck/trailer is a very useful tool indeed and necessary for items that can't be pulled off (sand, rocks, gravel), but for most items people haul to the dump, the pull off technique is a lot cheaper.
 
   / Idle hands......... #26  
Does anyone know where the post is on the tubing bender that Wroughtn showed us? Robert
 
   / Idle hands.........
  • Thread Starter
#27  
I can't remember the thread either. Here's the ticket, take it.

You can wrap the tubing around anything curved, no sharp corners. The secret is it can't slip. Square tubing buckles when it's allowed to slip.

You can put a piece of four inch pipe on a piece of angle iron. Put the angle with pipe in a vice. Tack your tubing to the angle and wrap it around the pipe. It'll work like a hose.

Of course with that principle you can do it all within reason. I personally find square tubing neater than just about anything to play with, within reason./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
 
   / Idle hands......... #28  
Okay - I'm a Mechanical Engineer. The idea has merit. Not necessarily exactly as originally submitted, but using motion / traction to lift the bed certainly has merit. The thought has crossed my mind before.

Here's my thinking.
We build a scissor lift type device under the dump body. Nothing fancy - just 2 pieces of steel and a couple/ three pivots.
We pivot the dump box close to the back of the trailer. The further forward the better, but we want some height here otherwise we're just as well off to unhook from the truck and tilt the whole trailer up.
Now we mount a pulley at the front of the trailer, string some aircraft cable from the scissor over the pulley and down under, and we use the motion of the wheels to wind up the cable. I think a cable drum on the axle is safer than the tire chains and would give more force (in exchange for backing up further) but any way of winding up the cable would work.

Using an axle drum would even allow you to raise the dump box by moving forward or backwards by wrapping the cable over or under the drum. I suppose you could do the same with tire chains by having a second pulley at the back of the trailer- use both for backwards, just the front for forwards.

Why the scissor lift? It gives you more force upwards for the same cable tension than pulling on the rear of the box. This allows you to pivot closer to the back of the box and get a steeper angle. You could just mount a tall post to the front of the trailer with a pulley on the top, but that's not anywhere near as clean a design.

Considerations:
Need to ensure the force calculations are done - don't want to overstress the cable and have it snap - that would be ugly although it would likely only happen when you're in the vehicle so you're relatively safe.(Having a hydraulic hose burst is just as bad and you're standing right next to it!)
Sizing the cable drum needs to take into account expected traction at the wheel. Otherwise if the wheel slips, the whole thing will come crashing down as well.
Scissor lifts take the most force at first. This is a good thing, as if the load is too heavy, the cable would snap or the wheel would slip before the load is raised. But need to design it such that the initial angle, expected load and expected cable force are matched to make it work.
Finally (that I've thought of) as the load slides off, the force on the cable will drop, but so will the friction on the tire. Need to ensure the cable force drops faster. I suppose the weight transfer to the rear would negate this effect to some degree.

As someone else mentioned, the whole thing might be accomplished just as easily with a worm-drive trailer winch instead of crawling under the trailer to hook up the cable to a drum, but then you have to crank instead of drive :(

wroughtn_harv - I'd be happy to work through calculations with you if you decide to proceed.
 
   / Idle hands......... #29  
When I was demolishing a driveway and sidewalks, I hauled them to the dump in my HD 3/4 ton Ford P/U (multiple trips). Not having a dump bed or even a trailer, I layed several pieces of scrap pipe sideways across the bed and layed scrap plywood on that. I filled it up pretty good with only a dozen or so pieces of debris in the space where the bed is wider than the inside of the wheel wells. On arriving at the dump with the first load, the cashier/scales operator did a double take at the scales read out and told me I was over 10,000 lbs and asked if I had customized the truck since the suspension and tires weren't distressed. Answered no and no then drove to indicated area of landfill. I gently backed up to the indicated area and put on my gloves and tossed out all the debris wider than the ID of the wheel wells. I pulled forward a hundred feet and removed the tailgate. Got in and backed up as hard as the non-turbo diesel(1984) would go till I was a few feet from the designated dumping spot and slammed on the brakes. The whole load shot out intact, rolling easily on the scrap pipes which fell short of the load and were not buried. As I had "borrowed" the used plywood during a previous dumping exercise I didn't have to recover it but did to use it the next day. Second trip was similar but having a calibration for how high to pile it for 10,000 GVW, I weighed in a bit over 12,000 and repeated the flawless performance. Again I was lucky and the cops weren't at the dump checking weights.

Maybe this won't work for all conceivable loads, trucks, and or drivers but it has a fair chance for many items in many instances and configurations.

I've been thinking of building a box, smaller than my the trailer (18 ft +) to carry on my flatbed utility trailer (12,000 lb GVW) that would dump to the side so the weight could be carried over the two axles. Was thinking somewhat along the lines of the junkmeister supreme, Harv, who seems to have many good ideas, and trying a used 12 volt hydraulic setup from a liftgate or xxx. Haven't decided how to "not have a problem" with the fender. First thought is to sort of "wrap" the bottom of the dump bed/box around the shape of the tandem fender. I would only lose a little capacity but right at the end with the load mostly dumped, I would have to raise the box WAY UP to dump the material that would be caught by the irregularity. Alternatively I could make a wedge shape that would reduce capacity a bit but let the material out better toward the end of a dump. I have also considered scisors, jackscrews, and lots of things up to but not including skyhooks. Would probably use the traditional bottom opening sidegate(?)

The box would be hinged on the side and I am considering using the HD stake pockets as the attachment method. As there are symetrically located pockets on both sides I could put the box on to dump left or dump to the right.

An alternative idea that I had was that since the floor of the dump box has to be strong enough to hold the load when elevated, why not carry it elevated at the height of the fenders and eliminate the problem of dumping over them. This would raise the CG a foot but shouldn't make the loaded unit too unstable. I could put braces/spacers under the box to help carry the dynamic forces of bouncing on the road and not bending the bottom of the dump box.

Someone will probably ask how I will get that big heavy box on and off since it could be more than I can pick up with my pallet forks, considering the box's dimensions and leverage. I have a jib crane with traveling car that has an electric winch on it in my shop. It has two ton capacity at maximum reach and I wouldn't need to even go halfway out. This makes loading and unloading things a little easier when heavy stuff gets involved. This leaves me with the box in the shop in the way so a dolly might be in order. Alternatively, I could jack it up and drive out from under it leaving it sit outside on a couple stands till needed. Hmmm, note to self. Make stands of unequal height and put a drain plug in the lowest corner cause water would be a tad heavy.

I would appreciate any constructive criticism or warnings of unanticipated dangers or ...

Patrick
 
   / Idle hands......... #30  
Wrought'n Harv - take a look at this link. I'm sure you can identify with it.

www.kwikdump.com

BigEddy
 
   / Idle hands.........
  • Thread Starter
#31  
It's interesting on a couple of different levels. When I have an idle moment the mind still works over the tire--tilt--dump trailer. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

First of course is what makes it dump. Looking at the demonstration I gather it's on the same principle as the tumble bug round hay trailer. I'm sure you've seen those. You back up to a round bale. The trailer tilts as you back against the bale. You lower an arm over the trailer and then pull forward. The arm and the mechanical action of the trailer loads the bale. When you want to unload you activate the brakes and lift the arm and then back up. The brakes are activated a couple of different ways that I've seen. One is the wire to the electric brakes is placed to an accessory (cigarette lighter) plug.

You plug it in and the brakes are locked. I imagine you have to exchange the backing plates, left on right, right on left etc to make them work in reverse.

Another system I've seen is where the brakes are hooked to the running light circuit. To unload the trailer you just throw the light switch and the brakes are on.

I'm still thinking about the tilt trailer idea. But lately my mind has been dancing real hard with making my skid steer into a road grader, picked up a six foot Little Rhino three point blade set up today. I've already got the wheels and tires and I'm thinking I'd like to have it work without additional hydraulics. Just because I think I can.

I mean heck, anyone can make their skid loader into a road grader with a checkbook. I found out Bobcat makes one similar to the idea I have. And just about anyone can make one using hydraulic cylinders etc. But now if I can make one work well and not abuse the checkbook and without hydraulic assist, now that's a bird of another color. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Idle hands......... #32  
Harv I just used one of those skid steer graders the other day and im no grader man but i did well with it. I mountred my laser read out on it and did a small sub grade with it. I think the grader cost 6000 and a good used 12 Cat cost 4000 here. The grader i used had the swivel wheels and the swivel mount on the moldboards drawbar was a 2inch trailer ball and hitch. It was hard to use on the Bobcat and Case loader with 2 hand drive, with the blade having a lever for each side. The Cat loader we used with the one hand drive freed up the other for the lade controlls. My friend had these few machines on his Rental lot getting contractors to pick which machines they wanted. One thing i saw the neck needed to be a bit longer about a foot or two to make blading smoother.
 
   / Idle hands......... #33  
Harv,
This is probably not as good as you might want, but I took my Little Rhino blade & mounted it to my front loader. I do not have a picture of it mounted. Here it is in storage. I have a tool bar to put on in place of the bucket. It slips into the C-channels & I drop 4, 1/2" bolts through the C-channels, behind the inserted tool bar.

I do not have wheels on it. If the blade is angled, when you change the tilt, you change the cut. the way I have it mounted it sits between where the bucket would be if it were on, and the front wheels.

I have used it for a few little jobs & like it.
 

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   / Idle hands......... #34  
wroughtn_harv, not a skid steer, but is this something like what you had in mind? It's a Dearborn Road Maintainer on a Ford 8N.
 

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   / Idle hands.........
  • Thread Starter
#35  
Don,

Thanks, that maintainer is finer than a frog hair split three ways as a bud of mine would say.
 
   / Idle hands.........
  • Thread Starter
#36  
Morning Neal,

The blade that was given to me is exactly like the unit you have pictured. I think they must have been siblings. The rust pattern is so close that it has to be genetic.

Here's my logic. For just moving dirt the skid steer does it easier and much faster than a conventional tractor. And for grading it smooth the skid steer is fantastic. The only problem is with the small undulations. With the skid steer being so short a wheelbase the only way to eliminate them is with repeated passes and quite a bit of experience.

The elongated wheelbase of the maintainer--grader concept was designed to eliminate those undulations. This site, http://www.bobcat.com/products/att/Photos.jhtmlattname=grader&mp=6&photo=5 is a picture of what I have in mind.

The difference is the Bobcat is dependent upon auxillary hydraulics to manipulate the blade. I can do that too. I could even buy a Bobcat maintainer attachment. It would be real hard for me to justify the investment though. I'm not into making roads and or parking lots. So it would be just a toy.

I do want to make one for myself. I'm sure you can relate to that motivation /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif if anyone here can.

So here's my thinking now. Using the quick attach feature I hook up to the grader. The skid steer and the frame with the crazy wheels become one rigid unit. (I haven't figured this out completely yet.) Then I use linkage to attach the blade frame to the curl function of the skid steer. To lower the blade I curl down, to lift curl up. Angle of the blade I think can be set manually with pins, just like the original Rhino set up.

This is a once a year or two attachment that is handy as heck to have when needed but not such an investment that it has to be used twice a month to pay for it. And to be honest probably more about because I can than anything else.

Because I can gets me into more trouble..... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
   / Idle hands......... #37  
Well shoot Harv, if you didn't insist on using a skid steer for a power unit, you could just build one like this, and tow it with a tractor.
Or, you could reverse the blade, and make the wheels steerable and push it with a skid steer.
 

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   / Idle hands......... #38  
Harv, I certainly know about the ideas getting ME in trouble...

I looked at the bobcat grader & see at least some of your end goal.

The swivel wheels up front throw a new twist into what I did without wheels.

If I wake up in the night with an idea (and can remember it till morning /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif) I will pass it along.
 
   / Idle hands.........
  • Thread Starter
#39  
Thanks for the picture Franz. Images of rigs like that keep coming to mind when I'm trying to smooth out an area and make it level too.

I'm stuck on using the skid steer. We've almost become so close I'm starting to feel we're joined at the hip. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

So much to do.....so little time. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif It could be worse, I could be one of these folks with nothing to do or even worse, no tools to do it with......... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
   / Idle hands......... #40  
I was thinking just now of using the bucket tilt to angle the blade. "dumping" would angle the blade to the right for example. I hit a stumbling block in that the mount at the bucket pin would have to pivot as well which loses rigidity and kills the downpressure.

One could mount the grader frame to the tractor frame and just have the blade mount move with the loader arms but that takes away the quick attach properties.

Just some ideas... time for bed.
 

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