I Hate Computers

StoneHeartFarm · Aug 19, 2001

Glueguy,

Mine wasn't too flaky until I added the CD-RW and a second printer port for a scanner and second printer. Since then, it does pretty strange things, like losing the factory port, losing the PCI port, losing USB support, etc. Just enough to make life interesting.

SHF

StoneHeartFarm · Aug 19, 2001

Scruffy

The AMD's run hot? I upgraded the old 486 with an AMD chip and haven't noticed any problems. Is the heat problem only with the newer chips?

SHF

Anonymous Poster · Aug 19, 2001

...The AMD's run hot? ...

Not as much with the older K5's or K6's, but the K7 Athlons can self destruct within seconds without the proper cooling fan...

All cooling fan's are not created equal... /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Bird · Aug 19, 2001

Hmmm, this thread is the first time I've heard of AMDs running hot. How do you tell? My computer doesn't have a temperature gauge. And this IBM I've been using for 3 years is running an AMD K6-2/300 processor.

Bird

scruffy · Aug 19, 2001

SHF, as John said, the Athlons, Durons etc run hotter than the dickens! There is no way to go with 'overkill' on cpu fans for them...if AMD recommends a certain fan (which they do), then by all means go with one that has a greater cfm output! The heatsink is definately important also. This 700 is a Slot 1 type of cpu, and I have THREE cpu fans on it...finally got it running cool enough....never could get enough fans going on the M/B to cool it sufficiently, and now have it sitting right in front of a window a/c with the side panel off.

StoneHeartFarm · Aug 19, 2001

Does anybody have any idea why the AMDs are running so hot? Is AMD using overclocking as it's method of choice for increasing the speed of the chips?

SHF

StoneHeartFarm · Aug 19, 2001

Bird,

My BIOS tells me on startup what the CPU temperature is. Also, there is a place in windows 98 that tells CPU temp and fan speed. I found it once by accident and for the life of me, I can't figure out how to get back there. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

SHF

scruffy · Aug 19, 2001

SHF, if I have my facts correct (won't swear to it), it is because of number of instruction sets and the shortness of them that the AMD processor runs. The AMD chip runs many more instruction sets than the Intells because of the abreviated way they are written, as well as the total number of sets available to run. The Intell (last followed this issue 4 or 5 years ago) has something like double the number of Instruction sets than the AMD, and they are full line, complete instructions to do one job, the AMD will use a combination of sets to do the same step, that other one, Cyrix (?) has about half of the number that AMD does (at least at that time). The multiple steps will run through the processor very fast due to their inherent shortness of length, BUT, this very same process creates more heat. Kinda the Danged if you do, Danged if you don't theory. The heat was the tradeoff for the speed.
There is a little program you can add that will modify the AMD instruction set handling, and lower the tempurature 15 to 20 degrees. The problem I found with it is, its not compatible will all programs /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif, and the programs that it wasn't compatible with are some of the ones I need!
If any of you techies disagree with this information, PLEASE update or correct my 'old' knowledge!

NOTE: If you want software to check your system for a complete analysis, go to: http://www.sisoftware.co.uk/sandra
scroll down (right hand column) and look for the Sandra2001te Standard version. It is a (I think this is the spot for the trial version) good tool to have, and the 'Pro' version with all modules activated is only $29.00
It will tell you the tempuratures of your cpu, m/b, etc, and has warnings for fan failure, etc. even will give you your fan speeds as well as almost every other tidbit of info you might want.
Edited by scruffy on 08/20/01 04:10 AM (server time).

StoneHeartFarm · Aug 20, 2001

Scruffy

So, basically the difference is the AMD is running more clock cycles? I remember reading that there are 2 ways to increase processor speed. One is to improve the chip. The second is just to increase the juice and force the processor into more cycles. My understanding of this is that you can rebuild your motor with oversized pistons, etc. OR, you can just shoot some NOX into it. Both increase the horsepower.

Do we know what the critical temp is on an AMD?

SHF

Bird · Aug 20, 2001

Anyone ever hear of a program called SiSoft Sandra? I downloaded it off the Internet a long time ago, and it claims to tell you just about everything about your system. I know it tells me a lot more than I understand. Anyway, I was looking to see whether it mentioned temperature and found that it supposedly includes a warning if the processor temperature is excessive; i.e., in excess of approx. 70 degrees centigrade if yours has a temperature sensor. It says something about Pentium II not having one, I think. Does that sound about right?

Bird

scruffy · Aug 20, 2001

SHF, it is not just limited to increasing the clock cycles, as all chip makers have been doing that, but AMD's theory is/was shortening the imbedded coding to allow the cpu to process the command faster...the shortcoming in my opinion was the fact that it would take 2 or 3 of the instruction set commands to do the same job that the original longer command was able to accomplish.
Do not get me wrong, AMD has put out a very reliable chip, it just generates more heat, and is a little more picky when it comes to cooling it down.
By the way, I don't want to be around when you add the NOX to an old engine! /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif You may get a big surprise!
Bird, if you will look at my post above, you will see the url for Sisoft. The program is ok, but I haven't run a comparison on the temps to verify how accurate they are. It definately can and will be an asset when it comes to maximizing the potential of your system...they just don't give you a hint on where/how you are supposed to make the optomization corrections! This can be a real problem for those not up on the tricks/etc of 98 or ME.

Bird · Aug 20, 2001

Scruffy, don't know how I missed that./w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

Bird

scruffy · Aug 20, 2001

Bird, I usually tell myself "if that's all I miss in life, I'm in good shape"! That is normally good for a belly chuckle, but it's hard to remember what I missed! /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird · Aug 20, 2001

Scruffy, it's been so long ago that I couldn't remember what I paid for Sandra, and I've wondered whether I wanted to download it in the new computer when it gets here. I guess I will. I hope that Dell computer is more reliable than Dell's "order status" board. They showed the computer system to be ready for shipment the night of the 15th to be picked up by the carrier the "next business day" and ever since then it simply shows "In Transit to Local Carrier" although they show the printer to have been shipped on the 16th and gave a tracking number, so UPS shows it to be on the truck for delivery today. Don't know whether they have the computer, too, or not since they were two separate order numbers.

Bird

GlueGuy · Aug 20, 2001

Scruffy

I've found the AMD chips to be good cpu's, but they sure require more cooling

That may have been true from time to time, but I've found that the "winner" in the heat contest switches back and forth from time to time, depending on who made the latest advances. When my wife's CPU was switched to an AMD a few years ago, I found that it ran cooler than the equivalent Intel. Likewise, the winner in the instruction department is debatable. They both support the MMX instruction set, and they have both diverted from that time. In either case, M$ seems to support both relatively well.

ALso, both Intel and AMD have both converted to a RISC "core", and the macro instructions are largely simulated on both. However, the AMD "core" is more of a pure RISC architecture.

SHF
See what I mean? Adding those alternate ports will get you every time. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Bird
You can always put your finger on one, and if it smokes, it's too hot! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

But seriously, there are little temperature monitors you can put in a system that will warn you when things get too "toasty". Alternatively, you could just put a thermometer in back of the exhaust fan.

The latest P4's run higher clock cycles, but the AMD gets more work done per clock cycle (not a 100% true, but close enough if you're just doing business apps).

The GlueGuy

scruffy · Aug 20, 2001

GlueGuy,
Like I had said, I hadn't kept up with that since 4 or 5 years back. Last I had looked into it was the early Pentium series, such as the P-90's or the early 586's, since then, it has been a 'blank' in my life....no time to play with digging it out....no interest either. Oops, better make that 5 or 6 years back...time flys when you're having fun! /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird, I hope your new machine arrives today!
If you are interested in the standard version of Sandra (free), you can download it from http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10014-102-0-1.html?tag=dir It is in UTILITY/MOST POPULAR and scroll down to Number 13. The software has all the information plus link for upgrading to the PRO version which has all the modules activated.
Edited by scruffy on 08/21/01 00:42 AM (server time).

Bird · Aug 21, 2001

Scruffy, all the components of the new computer system arrived, and I'm using it now./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Unfortunately, I've got a few minor problems, such as not being able to get communication between the computer and the printer yet./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif Some things I like, and some I don't like about this thing, but I reckon I'll get it worked out eventually.

Bird

GlueGuy · Aug 21, 2001

Bird, re: not being able to get communication between the computer and the printer yet

My nephew had that problem with a new Compaq I got him (and an old printer that he'd had before). We set the parallel port to "compatible mode", instead of the ECP mode and it worked fine.

The GlueGuy

Bird · Aug 21, 2001

Thanks, GlueGuy . . . I think./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif I'd probably try that if I had any idea what you're talking about and how to do it./w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

This is, of course, a new Dell computer and a new Hewlett-Packard OfficeJet G55 printer. The printer came with a parallel cable, but recommends you buy a USB cable if your computer has such a port. I didn't want to go to town shopping for a cable right now, so tried the parallel cable; hasn't worked so far.

Bird

Bird · Aug 21, 2001

GlueGuy, I found that "ECP" whatever that means, and changed sumpin'; removed a check mark from one of the boxes, and got 'er printin'. Thanks again!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bird