I got a dump truck! How does it work?

[DJ54]

Glad you got it going..!! My hearing isn't the best but sounds like the old girl has a Detroit in it.

I'd suggest blowing the air tank(s) on it occasionally. If it hasn't been done lately, could be a buildup of oily/water mix in the tank(s). Just crack it slow, as that crap will blow out in every direction.

 

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

Your ears are pretty good! It's got an 8.something Detroit turbo in it.

 

[oliver1555]

Yeah, thats a counterproductive rule... Here in Europe, we have air brakes on just about anything, while America is sticking to (most of the time) barely adequate electric brakes...

When i read people on TBN say that a one ton truck is better because the truck is doing most of the brake work, i just shake my head... brake force should be proportional to the axle load, and if electric brakes cant provide that, you need air brakes.

15 years ago i worked at a company in the light commercial trailer business. We had a customer who imported luxury 5th wheel horse trailers from the USA, and we converted them to European axles with air brakes: Dexter axles with electric brakes just couldnt deliver the mandatory retardation and therefor couldnt get a European approval.

This just tells me you have no knowledge of how to properly install, maintain, and use electric brake systems. I’ve pulled trailers with electric brakes all over the Rocky Mountains for over 50 years and never felt they were inadequate. I’ve also driven class 8 trucks for almost 50 years and have a good understanding of air brake systems. Most, if not almost all problems with electric brakes are self inflicted. You seem to have a need to point out how superior European ways are to us. When you were telling us about your superior trucks, I asked how many American trucks you’d driven on American highways. None. So, how many properly installed - proper sized wire, quality brake controller (not some $100 pendulum activated crapper) etc., electric brake trailers have you pulled?

 

[Renze]

You seem to have a need to point out how superior European ways are to us. When you were telling us about your superior trucks, I asked how many American trucks you’d driven on American highways. None.

Whether you like it or not, ALL current US truck engine technology comes from Europe: Detroit builds Mercedes engines, Navistar produces MAN designs, Volvo is Swedish anyway, Paccar engines are developed in my home country by Daf. And Cummins took the lead when the other American manufacturers hit a brick wall with their inadequate EGR based emission technology because their European branch had built up expertise with DEF based emission compliant engines.

Then, i worked for an air suspension manufacturer 8 years ago. For a Canadian feed trailer manufacturer we were asked to do a benchmark test of their standard Hendrickson suspension which they had longevity problems with, under trailers that did a lot of twisting and turning delivering feed at farmyards, against our standard 9 ton transcontinental setup. They thought we were pulling their leg when our standard setup outlasted the Hendrickson kit by a factor of 7... We offered to pay them a hotel in the city so they could monitor the fatigue test with their own eyes, if they sent another Hendrickson set over for testing... We could hardly believe this difference ourselves either, but the number of cycles before total failure, was what it was...

So yes, ive been involved in benchmark testing that proved European vehicle technology vastly superior to American. The customer didnt even need our heavy duty variant which is used by Australian road train manufacturers, even the standard duty on-road kit vastly outlives American kit.

So, how many properly installed - proper sized wire, quality brake controller (not some $100 pendulum activated crapper) etc., electric brake trailers have you pulled?

Ive never pulled one that functioned properly. I did hire an electric over hydraulic trailer, which worked surprisingly well. Automatic brake force to load adjustment, it worked surprisingly well...

 

[oliver1555]

Ive never pulled one that functioned properly. I did hire an electric over hydraulic trailer, which worked surprisingly well. Automatic brake force to load adjustment, it worked surprisingly well...

So, the short answer to my question, asking if you had experience with a properly installed and maintained electric trailer brake system is no.

Also, we used Hendrickson biscuit suspension on trucks in the woods for years. Amazingly tough and dependable.

But, this has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. All done here.

 

[Renze]

So, the short answer to my question, asking if you had experience with a properly installed and maintained electric trailer brake system is no.

Indeed. They never functioned good for long in our experience and i find all these systems hack jobs. The North American systems that do get sold here are electric over hydraulic, albeit at a different price level.

But, this has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. All done here.

Good. No need to ask me questions of which you dont want to hear the answer...

 

[Hay Dude]

Yeah, thats a counterproductive rule... Here in Europe, we have air brakes on just about anything, while America is sticking to (most of the time) barely adequate electric brakes...

When i read people on TBN say that a one ton truck is better because the truck is doing most of the brake work, i just shake my head... brake force should be proportional to the axle load, and if electric brakes cant provide that, you need air brakes.

15 years ago i worked at a company in the light commercial trailer business. We had a customer who imported luxury 5th wheel horse trailers from the USA, and we converted them to European axles with air brakes: Dexter axles with electric brakes just couldnt deliver the mandatory retardation and therefor couldnt get a European approval.

I agree that Europe embraces air brakes more than US, but we have a LOT of air brakes on trucks here. Trailers, too.
I just wish they’d use air brakes on more Ag equipment here. My baler is made by Krone (Germany) and the US versions they export to here are hydraulic brakes. My bigger tractors have air brakes, because they came from Europe (even though they are American brands) but trying to get a large square baler over here with air brakes is difficult. They are finally becoming available, but VERY expensive when new.
USA farming is still living in a “family farm” mentality, where equipment isn’t on the road much. In Europe, farm tractors are all over the roads, going from field to field and also to get supplies. I was in Italy and farm tractors are used for everything.
I farm “European-style” in that I travel from farm to farm. Therefore I actually seek-out European built Ag equipment.

The Netherlands is like 1/16th the size of the USA, but ranks 2nd in the world to the US for Ag production. Thats really amazing. They know their stuff and need to be acknowledged for their farming skills. It’s a damn shame what their government is doing to their farmers.

Wish we could get those DAF or SCANIA, TATRA, or Magirus trucks here.
Fellas, these trucks are amazing….

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[4570Man]

This just tells me you have no knowledge of how to properly install, maintain, and use electric brake systems. I’ve pulled trailers with electric brakes all over the Rocky Mountains for over 50 years and never felt they were inadequate. I’ve also driven class 8 trucks for almost 50 years and have a good understanding of air brake systems. Most, if not almost all problems with electric brakes are self inflicted. You seem to have a need to point out how superior European ways are to us. When you were telling us about your superior trucks, I asked how many American trucks you’d driven on American highways. None. So, how many properly installed - proper sized wire, quality brake controller (not some $100 pendulum activated crapper) etc., electric brake trailers have you pulled?

The standard electric drum brakes with drag magnets are pretty lacking for heavy loads. They work good enough when they’re brand new but they don’t wear in very good. The trailers with disk hydraulic brakes are way better supposedly but I’ve never had one. I know that my F-750 truck with air brakes has a lot stronger brakes than my 6500 truck with hydraulic brakes had. In my opinion once a truck has 22.5 tires it needs air brakes.

 

[Hay Dude]

The standard electric drum brakes with drag magnets are pretty lacking for heavy loads. They work good enough when they’re brand new but they don’t wear in very good. The trailers with disk hydraulic brakes are way better supposedly but I’ve never had one. I know that my F-750 truck with air brakes has a lot stronger brakes than my 6500 truck with hydraulic brakes had. In my opinion once a truck has 22.5 tires it needs air brakes.

It’s a weight issue, not a tire size issue

 

[4570Man]

It’s a weight issue, not a tire size issue

Obviously, but the 22.5 tires are enabling you to run more weight. 19.5 tire trucks top out at 26k and usually aren’t even that much. Basically if you need 22.5s then you also need air brakes.

 

[Hay Dude]

Your ears are pretty good! It's got an 8.something Detroit turbo in it.

8.2L Fuel Pincher? They were a GM diesel. Not regarded as the best.
Those were some dark days in Ford history where their Class 7 trucks wwere powered by GM diesel engines and GM Allison automatic transmissions.

 

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

At least it's a manual then.

 

[Renze]

The standard electric drum brakes with drag magnets are pretty lacking for heavy loads. They work good enough when they’re brand new but they don’t wear in very good.

Thats what i meant. And when youre in a densely populated country, which means mostly city driving, with city drivers cutting you off, you want to feel secure.

 

[Renze]

I agree that Europe embraces air brakes more than US, but we have a LOT of air brakes on trucks here. Trailers, too.
I just wish they’d use air brakes on more Ag equipment here. My baler is made by Krone (Germany) and the US versions they export to here are hydraulic brakes. My bigger tractors have air brakes, because they came from Europe (even though they are American brands) but trying to get a large square baler over here with air brakes is difficult. They are finally becoming available, but VERY expensive when new.

True, since a year or two, the EU mother regulation took effect with regards to brake pedal force versus stopping power. More or less every farm tractor has air brakes as standard now. Costs a bit but saves lives as everything runs 50kmh and may weigh up to 60 ton (though some weigh 75 ton loaded, i have no idea why contractors would buy such large tankers which make them sell the farm to pay for damages when they get into a serious accident)

Wish we could get those DAF or SCANIA, TATRA, or Magirus trucks here.

Tatra are on wildfire duty in several US states for some 20 years. There was even a company TatraUSA trying the commercial market, but they didnt succeed. Maybe they should strike a deal with Paccar, as Paccar daughter Daf owns a 19% stake in Tatra and sells them through their dealers in Western Europe.

 

[Renze]

My bigger tractors have air brakes, because they came from Europe (even though they are American brands) but trying to get a large square baler over here with air brakes is difficult. They are finally becoming available, but VERY expensive when new.

My mate has ordered a brand new selfloading silage wagon for season 2024. He ordered it with combi boosters so he can pull it with both tractors as only one has air brakes.

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Often, new farm trailers with air brakes have ABS, EBS stability aid, and off course load dependent brake force, which means big rig like stopping power without smoking your tires when driving unloaded. Thats why we converted those electric brake horse trailer 5th wheels to European S-cam drum brakes with automatic slack adjusters (like a ratchet wrench, but with limited free return stroke) and air brakes with all the comfort of ALB, ABS, EBS which perform in every condition, loaded or unloaded, on tarmac or on ice, regardless of brake wear. As long as there is some brake lining left, it will brake reliably.
(To be honest, i cant understand why somebody who has driven both and is in their right mind, can even compare electric brakes with air brakes with ALB, ABS, EBS air brakes like we have standard here...? Back in 2007 we adopted Knorr EBS as standard on our light 5th wheel trailers behind Mercedes Sprinter and the such, as Knorr was the only supplier with a 12V ABS/ESP computer intended for the North American market because European big rigs are standard 24V. So you guys must know what i'm talking about, right ?)

The Netherlands is like 1/16th the size of the USA, but ranks 2nd in the world to the US for Ag production. Thats really amazing. They know their stuff and need to be acknowledged for their farming skills. It’s a damn shame what their government is doing to their farmers.

We rank no 2 in exports, not in produce. Thats because we are in one climatic zone only, unlike the US, Germany or France which can have vineries in the south and grain plains up north. We export a lot of flowers and dairy like cheese, and import anything that needs more sun, from countries like spain. We are kind of a one trick pony, if you take California as a country, you will see it exporting a lot of grapes and wine, yet importing a lot of grain and dairy, i guess...?

Furthermore, a lot of grain and coffee and cocoa from North and South America shipped into Rotterdam sea port (the 2nd largest port in the world) gets pre processed in Holland and put through towards the rest of Europe through the Meuse (Belgium, France) and Rhine (Germany, Austria) rivers. Once preprocessed it is counted as export instead of throughput...

 

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

I have moved many, many loads with the truck so far. It's developing an issue. I didn't notice until it got pretty bad but the clutch peddle has developed a lot of play and does not disengage the clutch until the peddle is on the floor. It is a mechanical linkage that runs straight down through the floor.

Can anyone give me a starting place? I was so tired and hot yesterday when I noticed it that I didn't have it in me to crawl under the truck to do much investigation. Please tell me there is a linkage that can be adjusted...

 

[TripleS]

The linkage should not need to be adjusted unless someone has already moved it. The clutch needs adjusted not the linkage. On the bottom of the bellhousing it has a inspection cover its probably missing. Bump the engine around till the adjuster is straight down and adjust the clutch. It could have a lock that has to be removed just according to the style clutch. But to adjuste have someone hold it to the floor or get a bar and hold the pedal down and adjust the clutch. Adjust it till you have about a 1/2" free play.

 

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

I'll check that out, thanks for the advice.

 

[Gord Baker]

I have moved many, many loads with the truck so far. It's developing an issue. I didn't notice until it got pretty bad but the clutch peddle has developed a lot of play and does not disengage the clutch until the peddle is on the floor. It is a mechanical linkage that runs straight down through the floor.

Can anyone give me a starting place? I was so tired and hot yesterday when I noticed it that I didn't have it in me to crawl under the truck to do much investigation. Please tell me there is a linkage that can be adjusted...

So sorry you were hot and tired. The rest of us were cool and well rested.
Have a look at the linkage underneath and decide for yourself. 1-2" of Free Travel should be about right.

 

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

I'm lost now... what do i adjust? It looks like the allrod of the linkage is clean on the ends. Maybe try to tighten that a bit i guess?