Hydro vs Standard Shift?

cowboydoc · Aug 15, 2003

My second guess is that I should have read the remainder of this thread before replying...

That would have probably been the smart thing to do. You're in a post that is titled Hydro vs. Standard Shift. I wasn't talking about NASA I was talking about the debate of whether a hydro or a geared tractor is better and all of our "opinions" of such. I certainly wasn't making a statement about the world in general.

_RaT_ · Aug 15, 2003

Trev, much like your hydraulic pump that runs the various hydraulics on the tractor, a HST works virtually identical. When no load is placed on it as would be the case when the pedal is not depressed, the flow is bypassed. The same happens with your hydraulic circuit used to operate the loader. If I had a tractor that was operating a device 24/7 or 24 hours a day 7 days a week, I might choose to have a gear tractor and disconnect the hydraulic pump or better yet, get a dedicated device be it a pump, generator or what have you.

BillyP · Aug 15, 2003

( my fingers just hopped on the keyboard )

Hey Bill, maybe you should teach your fingers to read? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MikePA · Aug 15, 2003

that my fingers just hopped on the keyboard 
That's one of the reasons TBN allows people to edit their own posts. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

_RaT_ · Aug 15, 2003

"Maybe one of mine is that I am not going to own a tractor that you have to run at near full throttle all of the time and listen to the noise. I do understand why several times member here have talked about hearing protection. That is one of the reasons that I won't own a hydro. "

Jerry, it would seem that this is not accurate. Do you know of a tractor with HST that demands near full throttle to operate? I know that my experience with my Kubota, this is not accurate. I can in fact from my use of my tractor in my opinion, operate it at any RPM and have yet to ever need full throttle. Generally, I use 1800 to 2000 RPM unless mowing and then its at about 2300 RPM. I find 2300 RPM to be a great compromise in that the cut is not noticeably different then at 2600 RPM, the RPM required to develop 540 RPM at the PTO. The JD compacts do not require this as has been illustrated by Rockyridge in the JD forum. It makes me curious as to which tractor brand your familiar with that is operated in the manner to which you posted, that is near full throttle.

I often use hearing protection while mowing. I hear more noise from my mower and it's medium lift blades then the engine. I hear no hydrostatic whine unless in high range and in a high rolling resitance situation. I do not mow in high, as medium has a range of up to 7 mph at PTO speed. I typically mow at 3.6 to 4.3 mph. PTO RPM is typically at 477 to 503 RPM. I'm sure others have various needs and use their tractors differently, that stands to reason. My International, a gear tractor is run at 2000 RPM while mowing, I use 3rd or 4th gear. The engine on it is considerably louder and I attribute that to it's older design. Hearing protection on it is really recommeded. This is purely my experience and may not be relative or the experience you or others have. Rat... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

CountryBoy · Aug 15, 2003

( I Just found this Site and am SO happy to have found it before purchased.
)

I am glad you found it too /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Sure created some good reading.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Who makes the best hydro /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif....Kubota/John Deere or New Holland ???? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif nyuk,nyuk,nyuk nyuk...

_RaT_ · Aug 15, 2003

Oh man, your asking for it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif You must be one of those rebel rousers.

Moderator, moderator, Country Boy needs some moderating /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

pruntyc · Aug 15, 2003

I don't know, just asking, but isn't most Kubotas diesel? If so that would tell you, that it can be run at a lower rpm and still work good. So if that is so, then you would have good results at just about any rpm.

Docsknotinn · Aug 15, 2003

When I first cam over here I heard lots on negative things about censoreing. After being gone for 24 hours due to the power black outs and comeing back to this I think the moderators are definately needed here. There are more than a few veiled antagonists on this strand, well, they actually seem to post thay way regularly as if giveing missleading info to a new comer is humorous. In short I think Cowboy doc was right in the 10 ring. I think we all need to remember what is best for the other person is not always best for you. That is a individual choice and that is part of the fun of a CUT. Skeptic had it right as well. Some of you have talked about fuel consumption and your individual very nominal useage. remeber that the next person may put on several hundred hours a year. Noise, what is tolerable to one is unbearable to another. Some feel that the FEL difference with a hydro is laughable, well for you it might be, again the individual might find that a huge difference. Someone posted a 1k repair on the Hydro Vs $700 for a clutch. I assure you folks that there are a whole lot of people out there that consider that a BIG price difference. Not everyones pockets are bulgeing with that extra $. Someone said a Hydro will or will not be more $ to repair and then said they had no info ? I'm still stumpted on the logic there. Some came to the party late and then said ooops I should have read. hmmm. Maybe we could just think of this in terms of helping some one new out with some base info and get by with a little less ego inflated chest beating. Good Grief /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

_RaT_ · Aug 15, 2003

Doc, I take it from your comment your not a big fan of exchanging information and perhaps informing those who might have believed something to be one way, when another view is presented that contradicts that as my opinion of JerryG's. Reread JerryG's, and judge for yourself just how accurate you judge it to be. If you agree that a HST needs to be run at near full RPM in order to work, fine, your entitled to that opinion. Am I not entiltled to question it, I think I am. If thats being an antogonist, then I'm the leader and very proud of it regardless of how someone else feels about it. If everyone went on believing that a HST needed to be operated at full RPM when in my opinion it does not and the JD manual also states, then where is the value in that?

JerryG · Aug 15, 2003

DocsKnotInn,
Well said...

Docsknotinn · Aug 15, 2003

The value is in Freedom of choice and the ability to communicate intelligent articulate information in a pleasant non confrontational atmosphere. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

_RaT_ · Aug 15, 2003

Yes, I agree, but having convictions should not be confused with being confrontational. Having the ability to communicate intelligent articulate information in a pleasant non confrontational atmosphere is important. It's the articulate and accurate part that I felt was missing from JerryG's post, therefore, my questioning of it. If you felt that to be confrontational or perhaps less then articulate information, then you have every right. If you felt I was somehow infringing on the persons Freedom of choice, perhaps you did not read the posts. Please cut and paste from my post where this was mentioned or even implied, I will gladly apologize. Rat /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

gordon · Aug 15, 2003

Ok all things aside, I used to be against a hst. So for those of you who don't know the story here goes a quick version.

My old L3750 was broke and I had jobs to do so the dealer gave me a loaner tractor. It was a B20 yes much smaller but a real workhorse. I put over a 100 hours on that tractor before mine was fixed. It took quite a few hours to realize that I had to lift up on the pedal to get more power with the hst, just the oppsite of my L which had a shuttle shift and a foot throttle.

Having the chance to run that tractor changed my mind about an hst. Just showing how narrowminded I could be. At times I think we all are!

I wonder how many hours alot of the outspoken people against the hst actually have driving one?

Just a thought about posting facts. The above post is all FACT it really happened it a small town of DE.

Gordon

_RaT_ · Aug 15, 2003

As an earlier post mentioned, "Well Said" /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MossRoad · Aug 15, 2003

The reason it gives the rpm at 2000 up is because of it being a gas engine. They have to have higher rpms to have power. Now a diesel gets its power at a much lower rpm, so you could run it at a lower rpm and still have the power. 

I just went out and looked at the tach on the old beast and 540 PTO RPMs is 2150 engine RPMs. That's not too much different from the diesels, is it? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Docsknotinn · Aug 15, 2003

Yes I agree. I am not saying anything about any one person/individual. I am just saying we all get sort of lulled in to thinking our own thought process is always right. It is I think important to each of us as individuals to feel that we have made the right choice. Then you try something new or different and you realize the difference is really not that great. I have A hst, I dont think it is the be all end all. It is after all just a transmission. By the way My Pto shaft snapped like a pretzel at 10 hours. lol . I really just feel in the end it comes down to each of our needs. Looseing 2 or 3 hp to many of us is nonconsequential. To others it is a difference. I guess I just get bewildered when I see it start to turn in to a right Vs Wrong debate. Kindest Regards, Dave

yellowsocks93 · Aug 15, 2003

Hi, I would like to say that the big combines are hydrostatic and when I drive them you can hear the transmission. Someone asked if any large equipment was HST. As I have said before I prefer gears but HSTs do have there place in some equipment. Remember the old gear combines 4400 for example a new gear drive combine would not stand a chance to a HST. Farmers need the flexability of infinate speeds for harvesting and an HST provides this. But for me gears are the best. Proof: JD model 620 and so on with other old models.

Nick

glennmac · Aug 15, 2003

For the jobs specified by the newcomer who started this thread, my purely personal opinion is that there is only one correct opinion: hydro.

My opinion would be the same whether he was a weekend digger or a full time contractor. In my area, contractors who buy CUT size tractors buy hydro (and usually Kubota). It's because hydro is so much easier for back-and-forth tasks.

I am on my third hydro tractor and I have never run any of them at max rpm except when driving on the road. When mowing, I go at pto speed. For just about everything else, I will lower than pto speed.

I have heard that hydro is not on big ag tractors because it would heat up too much under the heavy loads caused by the constant dirt-engaging tasks that ag tractors usually perform.

pruntyc · Aug 15, 2003

I have a Yanmar diesel, and yes it has to run around or about 2300 or so to have it at the 540 PTO speed. So for Pto speed they are very close to the same speed.